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Farewell Jesse Hogan

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3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 "...the Demons should not be too self-congratulatory, for one could argue if their environment didn't cause Hogan's issues, it didn't shrink them much either..."

That is a really cheap shot by Jack Niall.

The environment Jesse had:  a few months with Neeld in 2013 then PJ/ Roos/Goodwin/Mahoney.   A greater period of stability our club has not known.  Our culture wasn't great with Neeld but it changed rapidly.

Our club worked really hard to give him time out and protect him and his privacy through injuries and personal/family issues. 

Its a long bow to say our environment contributed - at least he wasn't getting into serious strife.  Who knows, had he stayed his off-season troubles may never have happened here.  Poor form by Niall to not recognise this.

Luce, none of us really know what it is like inside the MFC or AFL bubble (except Saty), so it's quite possible we share some responsibility for Hogan's current situation. I actually respect Niall's journalism and know he's well connected. He didn't claim our environment caused the problems, he wrote "if", which means that it's possible, which it is. Arguably, the same could be said for Liam Jurrah, who supposedly didn't drink before he came to our footy club. 

The AFL industry is littered with unfulfilled talent. The stiffs here will shout "personal responsibility!", but I've known a couple of AFL/VFL players in the past who got scant support from their club or the industry.

The point of the article is that Freo has a major problem recruiting star players with issues outside of football, and there is a reason we were prepared to trade a player of Hogan's rare quality. That's a fair call.

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7 minutes ago, sisso said:

Still love Hoges, he would be a great player for us had he stayed but toxic mates in Perth and cesspool culture at Freo have already screwed him up ("Floss" Lyon what a joke of a coach)....its a great shame it's turning bad for him hope he gets the proper support he needs.

Me also. Would love to hear a Perth-based 'landers take on both club cultures. One club seems to have fixed theirs, but no room for Jesse there. All the best to him.

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Ross Lyon does not have what it takes to be resurrecting guys with serious personal issues ie. Hogan, Bennell, McCarthy etc etc

Freo would just about be the the worst possible club they could have gone to

Edited by Petraccattack

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1 hour ago, rjay said:

The doctor always has responsibility to the patient.

The club might employ him but the patient is his prime concern and the privacy of issues with that patient are paramount as it should always be.

yes and no.

I'm sure when a doctor examines a possible acl injury he/she doesn't ask the player for permission to tell the coach what his/her diagnosis was. So, somewhere there is a line drawn where he/she would ask for permission

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1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Quite a bit known in the general AFL community. I can assure you the MFC knows it ;)

"I can assure you..."?

Source?

You regularly make these calls that imply you know "stuff", when I'm certain you are making your own assumptions from what you read/hear in the media.

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9 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Ross Lyon does not have what it takes to be resurrecting guys with serious personal issues ie. Hogan, Bennell, McCarthy etc etc

Freo would just about be the the worst possible club they could have gone to

Lyon is the wrong guy to resurrect a club full stop.
he's take over one that's on the rise wrings the talent already there and doesn't bother bring anymore through.

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2 hours ago, willmoy said:

.........and to cap things off we had "Little Ralphy" calling Hogan a "ratbag". on some crap Fox Footy Preview. 

I was pretty stunned at that comment from an experienced Journo. He also said that Jesse was being spoken about in Perth in the same way as Cousins is. That is an amazing statement. 

Would be shocked if there are not some repercussions over those two statements by Ralph.

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Amazingly big call by Jon Ralph who isnt normally as outlandish as most. He also said Hoges has been seen out more than Elvis over summer.

Really worried about Jesse Hogan now. Hope it is being exaggerated.

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5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I was pretty stunned at that comment from an experienced Journo. He also said that Jesse was being spoken about in Perth in the same way as Cousins is. That is an amazing statement. 

Would be shocked if there are not some repercussions over those two statements by Ralph.

I didn't see it, but if Ralph compared Hogan with Cousins, that is indeed shocking. These kind of statements should not be made without proof. There is too much gossip taken as fact these days.  This revelation can be damaging to a person's psyche. I dearly hope Ralph is wrong and Jessie doesn't have a drug problem. Drugs are destructive, and hard to turn away from once on that path.

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11 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

There will be those that will recognise what they see and those without the exposure to be able to do so.

Funny this reminded me of the Police Academy, 25 years ago now, our squad getting a lecture on drugs, and someone needed a clue on how many grams in an ounce, some muppet couldn't help themselves and sang out 28 like he was on sale of the century, couple of us sitting on our hands just rolled our eyes...

I think Jesse deserves a break, unless he's being a thug, bloke has been through a-lot, he has never put himself out there as some sort of 'moral mary' do-gooder, there is no hypocrisy at play here. He trains, he plays, does a few drugs, so what, as long as they are not PE, so is the rest of society, including those performing at a high level.. He might have mucked up but at this stage, so what he is still a gun footballer and hardly in the same league as some other ratbags running around. 

I also think Goody was honest when he said he wanted Jesse to play for the Demons, from everything I understand. The player asked for the trade, we made it happen, square dealing all round. Yes the selfish part of me is happy that this is not happening at our club.

I think the bigger (moral) issue is fake mates who post videos unsolicited. 

 

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4 hours ago, TGR said:

Next to Richo, probably the worst overt body language in a footballer I have seen.  Never salivated over him, unlike many here.  Has special talents, but will never be the complete footballer IMO.  The gap between his best and his worst footy will always be massive.

 

As far as reported mental illness goes, I reckon (no stats or facts for a change), a third might be bonefide.  A third have massive resilience issues; and the other third are looking for a cop-out.

When prominent people stuff up in the modern era, mental illness is invariably connected.  I don't doubt mental illness exists, but it has been used too conveniently as a get out of jail card....for those that stuff up, and those that have no resilience.

 

Resilience must be indirectly related to CO2 in the atmosphere and smashed avocado.  Our ancestors would eat us for dinner.

 

 

 

pTGR (Gen X)

 

 

His body language was one of the biggest non issues I think I've seen in football.

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2 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

It's not funny. You got banned because you posted that you hoped his injury was permanent. Which makes you a pretty classy guy. 

You're lucky the ban wasn't permanent. 

My complaint is the ban was not, only pea heart is DfS.

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1 hour ago, ProDee said:

His body language was one of the biggest non issues I think I've seen in football.

His body language was shocking at times, you can't hide away from it or defend it.

Be interesting to see how he handles his frustration/body language at the Dockers.

 

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3 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Lyon is the wrong guy to resurrect a club full stop.
he's take over one that's on the rise wrings the talent already there and doesn't bother bring anymore through.

Totally agree Fork. Lyon is a list destroyer.

He gets the most out of what's there, but doesn't have a clue how to develop talent. He constantly plays his favourites, which only widens the depth gap on a list until all the decent players' are too old or injured, then jumps ship.

He's the anti-Clarkson.

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In all likelihood Hogan has been playing with anxiety for quite some time. If Fremantle can get on top of this and get Hogan treated sucessfully - then they will see a player who reaches his full potential. If that were to be the case, then Jesse Hogan's best football is most definitely in front of him. I admire any AFL football player who even walks the field with clinical anxiety. Good luck to Jesse. Welcome back to the great MFC anytime.

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3 hours ago, Damo said:

Amazingly big call by Jon Ralph who isnt normally as outlandish as most. He also said Hoges has been seen out more than Elvis over summer.

Really worried about Jesse Hogan now. Hope it is being exaggerated.

Even if he has been seen out more than Elvis? So what. If Jesse Hogan has anxiety then it is possible he is using substances to relieve any symptoms in the short term - because he may not have been aware of anxiety as something affecting him. Now he is aware, Fremantle will ensure Hogan is treated effectively, and not with alleged substances like drugs and alcohol. 

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7 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

I didn't see it, but if Ralph compared Hogan with Cousins, that is indeed shocking. These kind of statements should not be made without proof. There is too much gossip taken as fact these days.  This revelation can be damaging to a person's psyche. I dearly hope Ralph is wrong and Jessie doesn't have a drug problem. Drugs are destructive, and hard to turn away from once on that path.

You raise an interesting spectre...that Ralph would want to have proof. That it's damaging ( of course ) to do so frivolously without such.

It kinda suggests to me he might.

There is a lot of talk doing footy circles. There was quite a bit last year that mentioned players with involvement past and then current with Melbourne.

Often what is seen by the public is very sanitized.The AFL 3 strike system is a joke...beyond a joke really. We've seen the lengths they'll go to to rewrite history and negate any naysayers.

That any of these Vids get out is testament to both the underlying problems and the notion you can't hope to plug all holes nowadays.

Ralph won't have gone with his story....if he couldn't back it. 

The world of elite sports ...not so sparkly in some areas. They're but humans...and we humans have lots of problems and vices.

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Freo haven't handled this well.

They should have said that Jesse has been diagnosed with clinical anxiety, will take some time out, ask for everyone to respect his privacy and there will be no further comments.  

Images would have still surfaced on social media but it would be difficult for mainstream journo's to dredge up stuff and add innuendo and hyperbole.  Freo's response could be:  No comment, please respect Jesse's privacy.  Rinse and repeat!  At least this would lessen the public pressure on Jesse.

Instead they muddied the waters with alcohol issues and poor decision making.  While true it didn't need to be made public.  Now its  a media free for all. 

An interesting article suggesting Freo haven't put the support system in place for Jesse event tho they new of his problems before recruiting him and there have been red flags over the summer.  https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/respected-afl-figures-criticise-fremantle-s-handling-of-jesse-hogan-20190318-p515am.html

Can't imagine the detrimental impact this is having on Jesse.  Someone at Freo or the AFLPA need to monitor developments closely.  It wouldn't be the first time the AFL have asked mainstream media to back off. 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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How refreshing will it be when a player comes out after being caught out on a bender saying “ I’m not mentally ill, I just love getting munted on the weekend with my mates, just like 90% of people in their 20s do.”

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