Boot Camp 2017 cancelled by Players

[ManDee 7,134]

2 hours ago, Demon77 said:

It's been stated that " a quiet number of players" raised concerns about the camp.

I would like to know if there were players that were keen to participate in the camp or were there players that raised the issue speaking on behalf of the whole list?

 

 

Is 1 a quiet number?  Maybe they meant,  quite a number of players, I presume you are quoting someone?

[Tim 3,418]

36 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think it is an issue because it highlights lack of early communication between the FD and the players.

 

Those posting that it's a PR failure because it has been reported in the media are misguided, there's 100s of AFL reporters and there's nothing to report on at the moment.  It would have got out one way or another and it's far better for the club to try to control the message. 

Agree on both counts. And on the PR side, there was no way this wasn't going to get out as a story.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Plenty of over reactions on this thread.  This decision forced by the Players Association not the players as suggested will make absolutely no difference come season start. The boys are still going to be trained into the ground, they are still going to be made to hurt and sweat red & blue for our club and their team mates.  This has no reflection on their desire to win, their desire to play for their gurney, their desire to move up the ladder.  Internally the expectation is 15 win in season 2018. 

Take a couple of deep breaths, this is no biggie.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,825]

Who gives a [censored].

Richmond were copping it for years for their [censored] culture. Even as recently as 2016 Paul Roos arrogantly compared our situation to theirs. 

Then they came out and won games this year and then a flag.

That's all that matters. Just bloody win games of football.

The melts on here are pretty entertaining though. I guess it's a welcome change from houses being trained down.

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

58 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Is 1 a quiet number?  Maybe they meant,  quite a number of players, I presume you are quoting someone?

Apologies for wording it wrongly,  yes I was quoting  Drunken. The following is on page 3 of this thread.

Now, last Monday Goody told the playing group that the camp would be happening again this year from 18th-20th before breaking for Christmas. Immediately quite a number of players where very much against this for a variety of reasons (including players from the Leadership group), so a group approached the AFLPA to ask how to handle the situation.

 

[rjay 24,917]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

The issue (despite what some people who like to spread fake news on here say) is that when Tyson injured his knee, he felt that there was insufficient resources and qualified staff to assist and treat him.

There was talk of getting the AFLPA involved at the time.

That's pretty well it.

I was told the same at the time and thought the better of coming out directly about it on this forum although I hinted not all was well.

Although others seemed to know better.

The camp was poorly thought through, we basically left the group in the hands of others not qualified to train a professional football team.

The players don't trust the process...

If they are going to try something like this again (although to me it's a pointless exercise as 'george' pointed out above) then the coaches also need to be involved, be a part of it.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

1 minute ago, rjay said:

That's pretty well it.

I was told the same at the time and thought the better of coming out directly about it on this forum although I hinted not all was well.

Although others seemed to know better.

The camp was poorly thought through, we basically left the group in the hands of others not qualified to train a professional football team.

The players don't trust the process...

If they are going to try something like this again (although to me it's a pointless exercise as 'george' pointed out above) then the coaches also need to be involved, be a part of it.

So where does that leave the authority of the Senior Coach when he wants to implement the Boot Camp the following year and is told later by players and the union, that it aint going to happen...

i remember situations like this happening sporadically at school when Teachers were over ruled by certain students. 

They didn’t last long

[Lord Travis 10,729]

Haven’t read this thread but will drop my two cents.

I couldn’t care less this was cancelled, as the boot camp last year was an abject failure. It’s purpose was to make the players mentally tougher and give them something to draw on when they were in challenging situations in tight matches. It failed to do this. The players proved that they were still mentally weak, with form jumping up and down like a yo-yo, and when the chips were down at the end of the season they went into their shells and failed. All that camp did was cause injuries and not give us benefit in the process.

While Goodwin seems like a good tactical coach, he’s definitely failed thus far to galvanize the players and inspire them when needed. It’s a worrying sign for the future.

Also, can’t blame this one on Jack Watts

[bandicoot 1,395]

12 hours ago, Drunkn167 said:

Okay what the hell is all this "Goodwin has lost the players" talk?!?!? What are any of you basing this on???

The players all love and respect the ever living s*** out of him, both as a player and a coach.

I laid out the facts of what happened and at the start of the Christmas break this will all be forgotten by the Players and Coaches.

You all need to relax guys.

 

Why did the players have to go to the union to air their concerns?

why couldn’t they approach management and coaches with their issues?

why was the boot camp scheduled if the players didn’t find it useful?

why was it only cancelled st thsaid last minute and not 9 months ago?

too many unanswered question for my liking 

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Haven’t read this thread but will drop my two cents.

I couldn’t care less this was cancelled, as the boot camp last year was an abject failure. It’s purpose was to make the players mentally tougher and give them something to draw on when they were in challenging situations in tight matches. It failed to do this. The players proved that they were still mentally weak, with form jumping up and down like a yo-yo, and when the chips were down at the end of the season they went into their shells and failed. All that camp did was cause injuries and not give us benefit in the process.

While Goodwin seems like a good tactical coach, he’s definitely failed thus far to galvanize the players and inspire them when needed. It’s a worrying sign for the future.

Also, can’t blame this one on Jack Watts

Can’t argue with any of this...

[Gator 17,332]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

While Goodwin seems like a good tactical coach, he’s definitely failed thus far to galvanize the players and inspire them when needed. It’s a worrying sign for the future.

The guy wins the most no. of games in a season since 2006 and you don't think the players are galvanised and you see "worrying signs for the future" ? 

It's amazing what some people can extrapolate when they're not part of the inner sanctum. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

17 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The guy wins the most no. of games in a season since 2006 and you don't think the players are galvanised and you see "worrying signs for the future" ? 

It's amazing what some people can extrapolate when they're not part of the inner sanctum. 

Rounds 22 & 23 were worrying signs, yes as they were in 2016 

First Quarter performances during the 2017 season were mostly very poor.... I don’t have to be part of the inner sanctum to extrapolate such information

If you don’t see that, that’s your choice

[Gator 17,332]

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Rounds 22 & 23 were worrying signs, yes as they were in 2016 

First Quarter performances during the 2017 season were mostly very poor.... I don’t have to be part of the inner sanctum to extrapolate such information

If you don’t see that, that’s your choice

They were still one of the youngest and most inexperienced  teams fielded each week.  These aren't excuses, they're valid reasons for anyone that's followed footy for a long period of time.

In round 23, 2016 Richmond lost to Sydney by 113 points.  It affected them so badly and the signs were so worrying they won the flag the next year.

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

They were still one of the youngest and most inexperienced  teams fielded each week.  

 

It’s also the same line that has been trotted out ad nauseum, since 2007....

it wears a little thin after a decade

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

31 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The guy wins the most no. of games in a season since 2006 and you don't think the players are galvanised and you see "worrying signs for the future" ? 

It's amazing what some people can extrapolate when they're not part of the inner sanctum. 

Not exactly a high bar to get over. The guy has been handed a team that should contend for finals spots for the next half decade at least. The team is in the perfect age and games bracket and the talent available to him far outstrips anything available to previous coaches. 

Next year will only be Goodwins second year coaching and I have no doubt he will get better in the role with more experience. So far though for every good team achievement; wins away against Adelaide and West Coast there has been a corresponding shocker. 

The drovers dog should be able to take this team to finals next year and it will certainly be worrying signs if he doesn’t. 

[Gator 17,332]

1 minute ago, fndee said:

Not exactly a high bar to get over. The guy has been handed a team that should contend for finals spots for the next half decade at least.

Yet seemingly too high for numerous other coaches.

He was handed a team that played his game-plan in 2016, which is one of the reasons he was handed a team on the improve.

His guidance of a very young and inexperienced team was excellent for a first year coach.  We're lucky to have him.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Haven’t read this thread but will drop my two cents.

I couldn’t care less this was cancelled, as the boot camp last year was an abject failure. It’s purpose was to make the players mentally tougher and give them something to draw on when they were in challenging situations in tight matches. It failed to do this. The players proved that they were still mentally weak, with form jumping up and down like a yo-yo, and when the chips were down at the end of the season they went into their shells and failed. All that camp did was cause injuries and not give us benefit in the process.

While Goodwin seems like a good tactical coach, he’s definitely failed thus far to galvanize the players and inspire them when needed. It’s a worrying sign for the future.

Also, can’t blame this one on Jack Watts

This is the second strike against Goodwin.

His handling of Jack Watts during 2017 showed a certain lack of personal management skills (not talking about the trade but the whole season). Now this which shows a total lack of communication with the playing group.

Whether the boot camp is a good thing or not it is beside the point. It is as many have pointed out the failure to obtain meaningful feedback and input from the players re the end of 2016 activity.

MFC is in the entertainment business and this was bad publicity for an ailing performer.

As said on other threads, 2018 is the season that Goodwin needs to turn it around. 2017 has been his annus horriblis.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Diamond_Jim

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

1 minute ago, Diamond_Jim said:

This is the second strike against Goodwin.

His handling of Jack Watts during 2017 showed a certain lack of personal management skills (not talking about the trade but the whole season). Now this which shows a total lack of communication with the playing group.

The Third. 

Telling Jones he is being demoted to co-captain (Jones' words) while playing golf would not pass the people management 101 test.  Such things call for privacy with time and atmosphere to facilitate discussion.  Jones was hit between the eyes with it with no heads-up to prepare him for the news.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Yet seemingly too high for numerous other coaches.

He was handed a team that played his game-plan in 2016, which is one of the reasons he was handed a team on the improve.

His guidance of a very young and inexperienced team was excellent for a first year coach.  We're lucky to have him.

 

So what do you think, assuming a reasonable run with injuries, is a pass mark in 2018? Top 4, top 6, 8 or ten?

Edited December 15, 2017 by fndee

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The Third. 

Telling Jones he is being demoted to co-captain (Jones' words) while playing golf would not pass the people management 101 test.  Such things call for privacy with time and atmosphere to facilitate discussion.  Jones was hit between the eyes with it with no heads-up to prepare him for the news.

Forgot that one LH. Blindsiding Jones was very amateur person management skills.

I think Goody might need a new mentor.

[Lucifers Hero 39,737]

2 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Forgot that one LH. Blindsiding Jones was very amateur person management skills.

I think Goody might need a new mentor.

Some would say Macca is his mentor.  But Macca's people management skills aren't too flash either and he is part of the day to day coaching panel so not always able to be fully objective.

I've said elsewhere, I think Goodwin needs a Neil Balme, Chris Fagan (@hawthorn) type who oversees the footy department and challenges him on major team/player related decisions.  Right now I feel the checks and balances on our coaches aren't as strong as they could be.  We have Mahoney, but his role seems more admin/liason than what Balme did for Thompson/Scott/Hardwick and Clarkson and Fagan did for Clarkson.  No coincidence for me that those two guys have presided over about 8-10 of the premierships 12 years.

[old55 23,548]

I'd be very keen to hear Jordan Lewis' opinion on the boot camp.  He's got perspective from seeing it all at Hawthorn from 4 flags to Kokoda.

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Some would say Macca is his mentor.  But Macca's people management skills aren't too flash either and he is part of the day to day coaching panel so not always able to be fully objective.

I've said elsewhere, I think Goodwin needs a Neil Balme, Chris Fagan (@hawthorn) type who oversees the footy department and challenges him on major team/player related decisions.  Right now I feel the checks and balances on our coaches aren't as strong as they could be.  We have Mahoney, but his role seems more admin/liason than what Balme did for Thompson/Scott/Hardwick and Clarkson and Fagan did for Clarkson.  No coincidence for me that those two guys have presided over about 8-10 of the premierships 12 years.

Agree LH .... The football manager has increasingly becoming a crucial role. If anything it is more important or as important as the coach. I wonder if the cap on football department expenses has curtailed the development in this area as it obviously should be a very highly paid position for the right person.

[rjay 24,917]

19 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I'd be very keen to hear Jordan Lewis' opinion on the boot camp.  He's got perspective from seeing it all at Hawthorn from 4 flags to Kokoda.

Waiting for Kokoda...someone had to say it.

It's a totally different experience.

It's not a boot camp and the whole club got involved, not just the players.

By the way, do you think with their list they wouldn't have won flags if they didn't do Kokoda.

Edited December 15, 2017 by rjay

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

16 hours ago, praha said:

I don't care that it was cancelled or the reason for it, but again i think this is just amateur hour from the media department. They don't owe the fans or media any reasoning for it. I don't think many people would have even realised if nothing was said. At the most all they had to say was "We've cancelled the camp to focus on a different training approach". Even that is too much because it creates questions. 

Had nothing been said, would people have even cared? Or realised?

Now we're once again the subject of media and fan ridicule. 

Regardless of the legitimacy of the reasoning behind it, and it does some like a reasonable decision to make, you simply can't ignore that to the general football world, it doesn't look good.

The club's PR and media department is just full of nuffies. This is bad PR. And we wonder why we struggle for sponsors.

Journos have sources especially where the AFLPA is involved. The story would've got out anyway I don't see any issue with being transparent.