Farewell Jack Watts

[beelzebub 23,313]

2 minutes ago, willmoy said:

For Moore only

No thanks. Overhyped in typical Collingwood fashion. ( Hes better than Weed though ) 

His old man would NEVER let Darcy come to Melb...never !!

[Socrates 45]

If Jack Watts get traded then Simon Goodwin and Brendan McCartney can go as well. Their insipid coaching performance against a reserves Collingwood side was the most pathetic performance in 20 years, even worse than 186.

 

[Sir Why You Little 36,990]

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

No thanks. Overhyped in typical Collingwood fashion. ( Hes better than Weed though ) 

His old man would NEVER let Darcy come to Melb...never !!

What’s the deal there? I spoke to Peter years ago and he told me he lovd his time at Melbourne...

[McQueen 17,864]

The idea of Watts being a liability in a finals game is well supported by the way he goes about his footy.

A few items:

In the 8 years he's been at the club I've never seen him lay consistently hard tackles.

Never seen him try to drive out of strong opposition tackles.

His second efforts over the years have been appalling in many instances.

When there's a pack to crash he goes in with self-preservation front of mind. Sometimes he drags in the mark but never does it with the intent of ensuring the ball comes to ground.

He's a great finisher with a sublime kick and reasonable tank but if we're all to take off the rose-coloured glasses and see him what he truly is then I think the argument weighs heavily in the favour of a trade.

It'll be unfortunate to see him go but he's plateaued. The ceiling has been hit a few times but never hard enough to cause anything other than a small dent.

Ive been on the fence until now but yes, it's time to trade Watts.

[beelzebub 23,313]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

What’s the deal there? I spoke to Peter years ago and he told me he lovd his time at Melbourne...

Others here are better situated about the history. But the versions im aware have Moore never having anything to do with Melb after leaving. Bit of a rift i heard.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

What are we realistically getting for him..that's of what is of interest to me. If we get a draft pick, I'd be dissapointed. I'd prefer a player

Edited September 28, 2017 by Leoncelli_36

[daisycutter 29,605]

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Looks like that slime bag Waldron was right

what? about hogan going?

watts up for trade was always on

[Sir Why You Little 36,990]

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Others here are better situated about the history. But the versions im aware have Moore never having anything to do with Melb after leaving. Bit of a rift i heard.

He didn’t make it to September ‘87

injuries got him

[Akum 2,660]

8 minutes ago, Die Hard Demon said:

Most of what you say makes a lot of sense. Except imo the part about Watts being a very good player in a very good team. Yes, we all know he can be a great user of the footy. But that alone just does not cut it in modern day footy. – Lets look at two of the most recent "very good sides" .. Western Bulldogs last year & Richmond this year.. What do they both have in common? Effort !!!! Run, manic pressure, tackling, 2nd / 3rd and 4th efforts, contest after contest. No player that does not give 100%, no weak links. That is why Watts would NOT be great for either of these sides. It is the recipe for a successful side and he is not the right ingredient. That's why we need to move him on, and get whatever we can for him.

Watts does not lack effort. The problem is that, in our existing structure, it's mostly attacking effort rather than defensive effort. Watts does a helluva lot of running during a game for someone of his size, but a lot of it is offensive running to provide a target, or to take defenders away from the likes of Hogan, and much of it goes unrewarded. He's probably always seen himself as an attacking player, who is meant to win the ball and use it to advantage.

These are his great assets, and that's what we bought when we drafted him.

So my question is, do our coaches want him to keep up that level of offensive effort, and to massively increase his defensive effort as well? Or do they want him to curtail some of his offensive effort in order to preserve his energy to massively increase his defensive effort?

The third alternative is to make much better use of his attacking skills and efforts, as long as the defensive effort is covered across the team as a whole. I believe our coaches don't see it that way, but if he does go elsewhere, that's probably what they'll try to do. Howe at the Pies is a good example - he seems to be a much more effective player at Collingwood, but that's not because they've drastically improved his defensive game - they seem happy to just encourage him to do what he does best, not to try to rein it in to be more defensive.

So our coaches have chosen one way, and that just doesn't work for Watts. If Howe is any indication, it looks like Collingwood's coaches choose to make use of a player's strengths and to cover their faults across the team - in other words, to choose their team so that they've got a balance of attacking & defensive skills covered across the 22. 

[jackaub 1,402]

13 minutes ago, McQueen said:

The idea of Watts being a liability in a finals game is well supported by the way he goes about his footy.

A few items:

In the 8 years he's been at the club I've never seen him lay consistently hard tackles.

Never seen him try to drive out of strong opposition tackles.

His second efforts over the years have been appalling in many instances.

When there's a pack to crash he goes in with self-preservation front of mind. Sometimes he drags in the mark but never does it with the intent of ensuring the ball comes to ground.

He's a great finisher with a sublime kick and reasonable tank but if we're all to take off the rose-coloured glasses and see him what he truly is then I think the argument weighs heavily in the favour of a trade.

It'll be unfortunate to see him go but he's plateaued. The ceiling has been hit a few times but never hard enough to cause anything other than a small dent.

Ive been on the fence until now but yes, it's time to trade Watts.

Thats about as good a view of Watts that I haveread on here McQueen

[Die Hard Demon 1,224]

18 minutes ago, McQueen said:

The idea of Watts being a liability in a finals game is well supported by the way he goes about his footy.

A few items:

In the 8 years he's been at the club I've never seen him lay consistently hard tackles.

Never seen him try to drive out of strong opposition tackles.

His second efforts over the years have been appalling in many instances.

When there's a pack to crash he goes in with self-preservation front of mind. Sometimes he drags in the mark but never does it with the intent of ensuring the ball comes to ground.

He's a great finisher with a sublime kick and reasonable tank but if we're all to take off the rose-coloured glasses and see him what he truly is then I think the argument weighs heavily in the favour of a trade.

It'll be unfortunate to see him go but he's plateaued. The ceiling has been hit a few times but never hard enough to cause anything other than a small dent.

Ive been on the fence until now but yes, it's time to trade Watts.

Perfect summation

[Biffen 12,940]

Can somebody bump the post QB game thread please to verify the schizophrenia of MFC supporters when discussing this brilliant, but poor tackling player.

[drdrake 3,163]

12 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

What are we realistically getting for him..that's of what is of interest to me. If we get a draft pick, I'd be dissapointed. I'd prefer a player

Ports Second round pick.  I think we will loose our first two picks for Lever, hopefully can be a change in pick we get Adelaide second round pick as well, swap third round as well.  Watts for pick 29 is about right.

Leaves us with Pick 29, 35, and Crows third rounder 54ish.  

[Redleg 40,858]

6 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Ports Second round pick.  I think we will loose our first two picks for Lever, hopefully can be a change in pick we get Adelaide second round pick as well, swap third round as well.  Watts for pick 29 is about right.

Leaves us with Pick 29, 35, and Crows third rounder 54ish.  

Can't see Lever going for 2 first round picks. Everyone bar Crows seems to agree.

[picket fence 17,094]

2 hours ago, DemonOX said:

So if Watts goes that's another number 1 pic who walks out the door along with god knows how many other top 25 pics over the yrs. 

How diff could it have been if we could have developed these players properly.  

Goodwin and Co better know what the hell they r doing.

God this footy club makes it hard to continually support them. 

Yep agree so lets get this right this could possibly turn out Watts for P.A pick 29??

Well we are continually being screwed over ! Our best ball user and proven goal kicker for pick 29 ?

I hope but fear Goodwin and footy dept do not know what they are doing!

Watch this one come back and bite us in the Arrrrrze 

If you see an inexperienced tightrope walker going from the Robby Flower wing to the other side with no nets below, that'll be me if this does come back ! 

Nup definitely in the Jack Watts stay a Demon camp!

[Akum 2,660]

A good comparison is his old mate Tom Lynch of the Adelaide variety. His attacking skills are pretty damn good but not at the level of Watts, so he's had to develop his defensive skills more. All Watts's skills are offensive, not defensive. He would probably say that that's why he's in the team. I think it's just come to the stage where the Dees don't want that.

It must also be said that Adelaide honour Lynch's offensive efforts far more than we honour Watts's offensive efforts. So the teams that want him are likely to honour his offensive efforts more than we do. Which might be good for him or might be bad for him.

The more important question is: will that leave us better off, or not? 

[beelzebub 23,313]

Just now, picket fence said:

Yep agree so lets get this right this could possibly turn out Watts for P.A pick 29??

Well we are continually being screwed over ! Our best ball user and proven goal kicker for pick 29 ?

I hope but fear Goodwin and footy dept do not know what they are doing!

Watch this one come back and bite us in the Arrrrrze 

If you see an inexperienced tightrope walker going from the Robby Flower wing to the other side with no nets below, that'll be me if this does come back ! 

Nup definitely in the Jack Watts stay a Demon camp!

Much my preference as well REd..But his card's stamped. Have to acknowledge that now. I only wonder how long ago ?

Though this is about Watts.  I go to that bolded part. SO many are just taking it as rote  that anything and everything done by the FD is right !!   I have my niggling doubts

[jackaub 1,402]

6 minutes ago, Akum said:

A good comparison is his old mate Tom Lynch of the Adelaide variety. His attacking skills are pretty damn good but not at the level of Watts, so he's had to develop his defensive skills more. All Watts's skills are offensive, not defensive. He would probably say that that's why he's in the team. I think it's just come to the stage where the Dees don't want that.

It must also be said that Adelaide honour Lynch's offensive efforts far more than we honour Watts's offensive efforts. So the teams that want him are likely to honour his offensive efforts more than we do. Which might be good for him or might be bad for him.

The more important question is: will that leave us better off, or not? 

So Akum please tell why our team don't honour Jacks' offensive efforts

[beelzebub 23,313]

1 minute ago, jackaub said:

So Akum please tell why our team don't honour Jacks' offensive efforts

wow that's the $64 dollar elephant in the room question if EVER !!

Id like to know...

[jackaub 1,402]

22 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Can somebody bump the post QB game thread please to verify the schizophrenia of MFC supporters when discussing this brilliant, but poor tackling player.

No schizo here Biff 

Many on here have been completely consistent where this fellows performance has been discussed inclusive of his 5 or 6 very good games for our  club

 

[John Crow Batty 8,862]

Watts to port?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/port-adelaide-firming-as-home-for-melbournes-jack-watts-20170927-gyq8kr.html

[DSP 1,488]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

If Jack Watts get traded then Simon Goodwin and Brendan McCartney can go as well. Their insipid coaching performance against a reserves Collingwood side was the most pathetic performance in 20 years, even worse than 186.

 

Wow. Over react much? What an absurd statement.

[beelzebub 23,313]

wonder how Port fans view this ? 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

4 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

It will be sad if he goes and I hope the club gets it right - they got it wrong with the Jeremy Howe trade...

Yeah, see. Even that I'm not sure is true. Howe's role at the demons wasn't the same as it is at Pies, where incidentally they told him he'd be a winger and a forward. We could have played him 22 games a year in defence, but we didn't because we had big plans at the position. Add to that the fact he wanted to go, and needed a new start after a number of years of awful results. His heart and mind weren't at the demons. I think maybe you're saying we didn't get value for him, given the stats he's put up this year and last. But when he made the decision to walk, we didn't have control over that. All we could do was get the value we could at the time, which we got. Watts situation is different. He's contracted.

[DV8 2,271]

3 hours ago, DemonOX said:

So if Watts goes that's another number 1 pic who walks out the door along with god knows how many other top 25 pics over the yrs. 

How diff could it have been if we could have developed these players properly.  

Goodwin and Co better know what the hell they r doing.

God this footy club makes it hard to continually support them. 

You must be able to see the difference now at the club. the hard physical stakes on-field, show the level of desire & commitment to your footy & the club.

It's obvious we are developing now, the first real group since the turn of the century.