2017 Post Mortem

[pinkshark 950]

 It is a result that was as odious as it was inevitable for Melbourne fans, who would have seen out the season with a look of shock, but not disbelief. It was just another catastrophe visited upon a group of supporters to confirm their belief in the way things are, have been and always will be, and there’s absolutely nothing they can do about it.

Just read the above in a Guardian article.  I would love Jones or Viney to read this to the team before each game.

[jnrmac 20,065]

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Well, thanks chunk..

Rest of club sill silent.

Wont be hard to spread the respect around then.

Haven't heard from our coach. Pretty poor if you ask me.

[beelzebub 23,376]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

Haven't heard from our coach. Pretty poor if you ask me.

Totally agree Jnr.

HE above all should be the spokesperson . 

Im annoyed we threw our chances away this year...but I move on

Im bemused/disheartened we're stupid enough to entertain mail outs for Finals...but Ive moved on

and this is actually where I find myself. Im actually pretty pizzed off with this bloke to tell the truth.

Not happy Jan.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

16 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

Somewhere in the 1990s. Set back 20 years.

 

There was a time under Daniher when we alternated between making finals and missing them.

Why was that? Why finals/no finals/finals/nofinals, etc.

 

Mental weakness.

 

At least we could make them then. But even in our good years with Daniher, how often did we flub the end of the season? Sitting high then losing games all of a sudden.

 

Mental weakness.

 

Daniher didn't have the answers. How deep seated is this problem?

 

Now it's back. More like it never went away.

 

Maybe our game plan is too demanding. Maybe we are young and developing. Maybe Oscar isn't up to it. Maybe he is. Maybe we need a second key forward. Maybe this. Maybe that. And what about the injuries?

 

All irrelevant because we would have made the finals except for mental weakness. Even with all the above.

 

 

It should now be obvious that the one thing, the most important thing to work on is mental. It stood out at the end of last season. That should have been enough. Now it's glaring.

 

 

I fear that it won't be worked on. Modern footy coaching groupthink, where a player who kicks a goal and is on a high, gets to go to the bench ... where players aren't allowed to practice goal kicking because it wears out their delicate bodies ... will not allow such an outlier approach.

(It's like basketballers not being allowed to practice throwing baskets. It's like boxers not being allowed to practice punching. It's like a golfer not being allowed to practice putting.)

 

They will practice faster, slicker ball movement, harder/faster running both ways, and of course, injecting a dose of whatever the eventual premiers do best. (Because that must be their "secret".)

 

The obvious failing, mental squibbing, won't be addressed.

 

How deep seated is this problem?

 

 

 

Spot on Mate. 

Email this to Goodwin and PJ in a few weeks once the dust has settled. 

Mental weakness has effected this club since 1965, when 3 things happened

RDB went to Carlscum

Richmond moved onto the MCG

The Board sacked Norm

The MFC has been vulnerable ever since, many have attempted to fix the problem. None have achieved it, i really thought Roosy would get to the bottom of it, but the absolute failure in Round 22 last year when Finals were on the line showed me otherwise. 

Goodwin is probably sitting in a darkroom right now, Rocking Back and Forth....

[GoD's67 111]

32 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Spot on Mate. 

Email this to Goodwin and PJ in a few weeks once the dust has settled. 

Mental weakness has effected this club since 1965, when 3 things happened

RDB went to Carlscum

Richmond moved onto the MCG

The Board sacked Norm

The MFC has been vulnerable ever since, many have attempted to fix the problem. None have achieved it, i really thought Roosy would get to the bottom of it, but the absolute failure in Round 22 last year when Finals were on the line showed me otherwise. 

Goodwin is probably sitting in a darkroom right now, Rocking Back and Forth....

Leicester won their first Permier League / FIrst Division title in their history last year after xx years of never winning! Dogs flag after 62 years.

At some point our team the Demons will do the same, having personally waited 50 years, the sooner the better. At least with guys like Viney & Oliver leading the way on the field and a coach Goodwin who is willing to drop players who aren't putting in the required effort, we are headed in the right direction.

Last Saturday was a dismal failure, we prematurely celebrated a finals place and the lesson of missing out hopefully teaches us a lesson about being ruthless.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

They will practice faster, slicker ball movement, harder/faster running both ways, and of course, injecting a dose of whatever the eventual premiers do best. (Because that must be their "secret".)

Not sure about the 'injecting a dose of whatever' aspect. Sounds as dodgy as.

[DeezNuts 624]

I'm wondering if we overstepped the commitment to the 'fast pace' model that the bulldogs used last year? The conventional contested mark and a controlled entry into 50 doesn't seem to be something we're good at achieving. 

 

[DeezNuts 624]

21 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Been an interesting read..Wise/Jnr discussion on the starts. As always theres something to learn and take away.

So just as an interesting exercise I thought  Id look at all our games and just suppose  we were equal after qtr time..  or iow...lets dismiss the 1st qtr and see how the season would pan out if we just looked at the last 3/4 throught the year

 

game  1   melb v saints   16.9  v 6.4  WIN    game 2   melb v carl   10.8 v 7.8  WIN   game 3  melb v geel  11.15 v 15.4  LOSS

game  4   melb v  fero    13.9  v  13.8  WIN   game 5   melb v  rich   8.5 v 9.15  LOSS   game 6  melb v  ess  15.6 v  8.12  WIN

game  7  melb v  haw   13.6 v  9.6   WIN  game  8   melb v  adel   15.3 v  8.8  WIN   game  9  melb v north    11.7 v  9.7 WIN

game 10  melb v suns    16.13  v 9.4  WIN   game 11  melb v coll 11.11 v  12.8  LOSS   game 12 melb v  foot  13.9 v 7.7 WIN

game 13  melb v  eagles 12.8 v  12.7 WIN  game 14   melb v  syd  3.8 v  10.11 LOSS   game 15  melb v carl 13.4 v  8.7  WIN

game 16     melb v  adel 9.7 v  10.12 LOSS  game  17  melb v  port  9.6 v  9.8 LOSS   game  18 melb v north  8.12 v  7.6 WIN

 

game 19  melb v  gws 7.2 v  6.7   WIN  game 20  melb v  saints 8.9 v  9.11 LOSS   game 21 melb v  bris 13.5 v  12.4  WIN

game 22  melb v  coll 11.8 v  8.10 WIN  

 

Now I know this isnt a true picture  but it's an interesting picture.  If we look through the result I think theres only  1 or 2 games we'd now lose   on basis of the latter 3/4 effort ( having actually won it ) 

overall WINS 15  LOSSES 7

Well ladies and gentlemen doesn't this paint a story !!!

Don't turn up to play, take too long to get going..throw season away.

All of the above was epitomised for all of us who watched that last game...it summed it up all too accurately.

Those that put up with my dribble over the course may recognise a constant suggestion: That for me there's only ONE Statistic that matters, the Scoreboard. Well that Scoreboard can tell you a lot if you look  and as the above 'look' suggests  we are probably an OK side despite all of our glaring faults ( and we know them in the main ) .

HOWEVER  our starts cost us EVERYTHING

Had we not cocked them up we'd probably be sitting on TOP of the ladder !!

but where are we????

 

 

 

 

 

It's almost as good as Mark Webber was in the Grand Prix... couldn't kick off a good start no matter what his starting position was... nice analysis btw

[loges 6,767]

Finals tickets went on sale Monday, the final 8 was finalised Sunday, so was the club expected to send out the ticketing guide after selling had started?

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

47 minutes ago, loges said:

Finals tickets went on sale Monday, the final 8 was finalised Sunday, so was the club expected to send out the ticketing guide after selling had started?

Via Email. Yes

[faultydet 7,594]

19 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

Mental weakness.

 

 

The obvious failing, mental squibbing, won't be addressed.

 

How deep seated is this problem?

 

 

 

So glaring and simple, and yet I would vote this for post of the year.

I'm not confident anyone at our club has the answer.

Seems they players failed to show up prepared in the first quarter today.  Some think this years failure will spur the players on, and make them realise what type of efforts are required. It only took 1 week for the "message" to fade into oblivion.

They are on the EOS trip already.

 

 

Mental weakness.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

33 minutes ago, faultydet said:

So glaring and simple, and yet I would vote this for post of the year.

I'm not confident anyone at our club has the answer.

Seems they players failed to show up prepared in the first quarter today.  Some think this years failure will spur the players on, and make them realise what type of efforts are required. It only took 1 week for the "message" to fade into oblivion.

They are on the EOS trip already.

 

 

Mental weakness.

How many unanswered goals were kicked against us today?

[loges 6,767]

56 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Via Email. Yes

Not practical, sorry.

[bing181 9,237]

7 hours ago, pinkshark said:

 Just read the above in a Guardian article.  I would love Jones or Viney to read this to the team before each game.

Seriously?

A journalist taking the [censored] at the expense of the poor-me, defeatist attitudes of Melbourne supporters is somehow going to help?

 

[bing181 9,237]

5 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Haven't heard from our coach. Pretty poor if you ask me.

Excellent. He's the head coach, his job isn't to wallow in self-pity. The supporters have that covered.

(Though as the Jones post pointed out, the responsibility lies fairly and squarely with the players.)

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

1 hour ago, loges said:

Not practical, sorry.

Of course it is.

The email could have been sent to all Members at 5PM last Saturday, had we won the game.  Far more practicle than posting a magazine that,

A. Arrives after the game is lost, thus negating Finals. 

B. Arrives after Finals Tickets are have already been sold.                      

[loges 6,767]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Of course it is.

The email could have been sent to all Members at 5PM last Saturday, had we won the game.  Far more practicle than posting a magazine that,

A. Arrives after the game is lost, thus negating Finals. 

B. Arrives after Finals Tickets are have already been sold.                      

I disagree, anyhow I believe it's just another reason to bash the club by the we got ahead of ourselves brigade

[McQueen 17,864]

1 hour ago, loges said:

I disagree, anyhow I believe it's just another reason to bash the club by the we got ahead of ourselves brigade

I don't enjoy being the butt of jokes. 

Living in WA, I've absolutely copped it the whole week following the Eagles getting up. At work, at footy training, via bookface, text messages etc.

This 'Finals' fiasco has just rubbed extra salt into the wound.

I can't see the club as anything other than amateur right now.

[Macca 16,969]

1 hour ago, loges said:

I disagree, anyhow I believe it's just another reason to bash the club by the we got ahead of ourselves brigade

The area that everyone should always look at (first) is player talent and how much of that player talent we actually have. 

You'd reckon most would have learned a valuable lesson from the years 2007-2015.  i.e. our list was bereft of talent and was the primary reason as to why we couldn't win games.  That, coupled with poor coaching and abysmal recruiting.  Roos spent most of his time at the club rebuilding from the ground up (Barassi had to do the same with his tenure here) 

Fast forward to right now and we're still short on talent.  Except, we're better off than what we were previously.  The coaching & recruiting is better too. 

The whole week has become a beat-up of epic proportions. 

The answer is quite simple - we're just not that good and we have a long way to go before we're a true contender.

1 minute ago, McQueen said:

I don't enjoy being the butt of jokes. 

Living in WA, I've absolutely copped it the whole week following the Eagles getting up. At work, at footy training, via bookface, text messages etc.

This 'Finals' fiasco has just rubbed extra salt into the wound.

I can't see the club as anything other than amateur right now.

You should try living in Melbourne Steve - it's everywhere you go.  Forget social media, even my local pharmacist reckons 'we' drink our own bathwater.'  I tried to set him straight but to no avail.

I could give you numerous other examples.

Anyone would think that we threw away a chance at a premiership - we're miles off and people need to keep it real.

 

[McQueen 17,864]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

The area that everyone should always look at (first) is player talent and how much of that player talent we actually have. 

You'd reckon most would have learned a valuable lesson from the years 2007-2015.  i.e. our list was bereft of talent and was the primary reason as to why we couldn't win games.  That, coupled with poor coaching and abysmal recruiting.  Roos spent most of his time at the club rebuilding from the ground up (Barassi had to do the same with his tenure here) 

Fast forward to right now and we're still short on talent.  Except, we're better off than what we were previously.  The coaching & recruiting is better too. 

The whole week has become a beat-up of epic proportions. 

The answer is quite simple - we're just not that good and we have a long way to go before we're a true contender.

You should try living in Melbourne Steve - it's everywhere you go.  Forget social media, even my local pharmacist reckons 'we' drink our own bathwater.'  I tried to set him straight but to no avail.

I could give you numerous other examples.

Anyone would think that we threw away a chance at a premiership - we're miles off and people need to keep it real.

 

I didn't help my cause by acting like a total fl og at subiaco when Tmac kicked the sealer when we played the Eagles. 

Basically everything I've copped this week has been a near perfect replica of what I dished out.

[Macca 16,969]

2 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I didn't help my cause by acting like a total fl og at subiaco when Tmac kicked the sealer when we played the Eagles. 

Basically everything I've copped this week has been a near perfect replica of what I dished out.

Even when we defeated Adelaide I was circumspect.  I thought that after that game we were a genuine chance at finals but more so based on the competition not having a number of excellent teams.  In that scenario, any number of teams can 'make it'

Therefore, the finals are wide open ... however, we along with Essendon, the Eagles & Port were always going to be long shots at winning the whole thing.  I'd expect 2 of those teams to exit in week 1 and whichever team gets through to week 2 will almost certainly exit in that week as well.

The finals experience would have been good for the group but missing out might act as a greater spur. 

My concern is with the list though - we probably need another 2 decent off-seasons before I'd be satisfied.  We need pace, speed of ball movement, height & talent.  So do most, if not all of the clubs.

The coaching of the team isn't perfect either.  Our starts are often abysmal. 

 

[Demon17 5,188]

On ‎1‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 7:26 PM, beelzebub said:

Been an interesting read..Wise/Jnr discussion on the starts. As always theres something to learn and take away.

So just as an interesting exercise I thought  Id look at all our games and just suppose  we were equal after qtr time..  or iow...lets dismiss the 1st qtr and see how the season would pan out if we just looked at the last 3/4 throught the year

 

game  1   melb v saints   16.9  v 6.4  WIN    game 2   melb v carl   10.8 v 7.8  WIN   game 3  melb v geel  11.15 v 15.4  LOSS

game  4   melb v  fero    13.9  v  13.8  WIN   game 5   melb v  rich   8.5 v 9.15  LOSS   game 6  melb v  ess  15.6 v  8.12  WIN

game  7  melb v  haw   13.6 v  9.6   WIN  game  8   melb v  adel   15.3 v  8.8  WIN   game  9  melb v north    11.7 v  9.7 WIN

game 10  melb v suns    16.13  v 9.4  WIN   game 11  melb v coll 11.11 v  12.8  LOSS   game 12 melb v  foot  13.9 v 7.7 WIN

game 13  melb v  eagles 12.8 v  12.7 WIN  game 14   melb v  syd  3.8 v  10.11 LOSS   game 15  melb v carl 13.4 v  8.7  WIN

game 16     melb v  adel 9.7 v  10.12 LOSS  game  17  melb v  port  9.6 v  9.8 LOSS   game  18 melb v north  8.12 v  7.6 WIN

 

game 19  melb v  gws 7.2 v  6.7   WIN  game 20  melb v  saints 8.9 v  9.11 LOSS   game 21 melb v  bris 13.5 v  12.4  WIN

game 22  melb v  coll 11.8 v  8.10 WIN  

 

Now I know this isnt a true picture  but it's an interesting picture.  If we look through the result I think theres only  1 or 2 games we'd now lose   on basis of the latter 3/4 effort ( having actually won it ) 

overall WINS 15  LOSSES 7

Well ladies and gentlemen doesn't this paint a story !!!

Don't turn up to play, take too long to get going..throw season away.

All of the above was epitomised for all of us who watched that last game...it summed it up all too accurately.

Those that put up with my dribble over the course may recognise a constant suggestion: That for me there's only ONE Statistic that matters, the Scoreboard. Well that Scoreboard can tell you a lot if you look  and as the above 'look' suggests  we are probably an OK side despite all of our glaring faults ( and we know them in the main ) .

HOWEVER  our starts cost us EVERYTHING

Had we not cocked them up we'd probably be sitting on TOP of the ladder !!

but where are we????

 

 

 

 

 

Terrific analysis which also states by omission the flip side.

When we had flying starts IN the first 1/4,  we blew those leads and nearly lost.!!! e.g Saints and Power.

 

Overall flakiness and lack of 4 1/4 focus due to...........

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

2 hours ago, loges said:

I disagree, anyhow I believe it's just another reason to bash the club by the we got ahead of ourselves brigade

You disagree with what?

[loges 6,767]

45 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You disagree with what?

Well I was pretty sure we were debating when the finals booking info should have been sent out. By the way at 5.00pm Saturday we still didn't know if we were in the finals or not.

[Macca 16,969]

History tells us that our previous list's contained any number of C grade or worse players ... we've got less of those types now but we've still got quite a few.  Most of those types won't get any better either. 

We're not at a situation where we don't need a cull of some description - we've got too many 'ok's & 'alrights' who are clogging up the list and taking us nowhere.  Go through the list yourselves and note the amount of 'must-keeps' ... you won't reach a figure of 30 unless you're being ultra-generous.  The number is more like 20-25. 

But I get it, many are sick to death of not playing finals and they want success and they want it now.  Footy doesn't work that way though.  A club needs to continually tick all the boxes over a long period of time in order to achieve success.

7-9 changes are required this off-season but that won't be the end of it.  We'll need another off-season and we'll also need to replace those offloaded players with much better players.

Ultimately, we'll need a squad of 30+ players who are best 22.  At the moment, we're probably sitting at best 16 or thereabouts.  That squad of 30 players would ideally contain 6-7 A grade players. 

Do all that and we can win multiple premierships.