POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 9

[Little Richard 6,262]

18 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Where our recruitment has targeted big bodied mids, we severely lack in the big bodied talls department, and with a couple of key injuries , this has really shown us up this season 

We've recruited superbly, if we'd drafted KP's instead of the players we did we'd be lamenting the lack of quality midfielders.

[Earl Hood 6,086]

3 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

They tagged Oliver and we were  unprepared for it. With Vince tagging Higgins we only had one effective mid, and Goldstien just kept hitting to their free   Midfielder.

North also tackled ferociously all day and were clearly on a mission.

We looked tired after last weeks mammoth effort and our lack of height and outside run were telling.

Also a real shame the umpires weren't at the standard today 

Agree especially the point about lack of height. A large part of our problem today was structural. They have tall backs and forwards and a monster ruckman. We had to manufacture every goal today, working with small running players hoping to link up and spot up a small target forward. At stoppages we had to tackle and handball our way forward to get a clearance. In contrast they always had the option in a tight spot to just kick it high to a marking forward or in clearances they often received a clear tap from Goldy and ran straight into the forward zone. 

In many respects we battled manfully and executed some brilliant patches of football but we were always manufacturing outcomes, compensating for deficiencies in our team. The forward line is patched up, the Weid is not ready to take the best defender, the other talls are playing ruck so we depend on the Trac and the smalls up forward. Hannan played well, while Jeffy struggled in a game like today with no clear space to run onto the ball as out intercepts were few. And Kent needed to work harder. Where are Stretch and ANB. 

Until we have the ruckman back and Hogan up forward I believe we will battle to string wins together. 

Land finally I think Norf will be up there in end as they have an easy run home apparently and lack clear weaknesses. 

[Adam The God 30,238]

1 hour ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Weids probably got a game today off the back of some good tackles last week. Everyone on here was raving about his game so I didn't say anything. I thought he was average at best last week and should've been back at Casey. Having said that, I have no idea who would come in for him.

Thought he certainly earned another game off the back of last week. He wasn't up to it enough today though.

Edited May 21, 2017 by A F

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

I just can't understand how we forget to show up with effort and intensity, this is a whole new group with the same issues as the previous group 

[markc 975]

never thought we win after last week.  was shocked last week we won. 

to me its just typical Melbourne , 

I was with a few Hawks supporters today watching the game , even this year they still go into every game expecting to win , believing they can win 

they don't care who they play , they think they will win. 

I wish I had that expectation,  I dream for it oneway again 

[Demons11 7,009]

Just now, A F said:

Thought he certainly earned another game of the back of last week. He wasn't up to it enough today though.

The issue is we have no one else who can play as a key forward.  We are to small as it is and taking Weed out would kill us, 

[Biffen 12,943]

I just wrote to the AFLUA.

Gave Nichols a spray.

I encourage you all to do the same.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Biffen

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

The issue is we have no one else who can play as a key forward.  We are to small as it is and taking Weed out would kill us, 

Yes this bloke is being pushed enough to get games into him as it is....

[DeeZee 7,390]

2 minutes ago, Luther said:

We've recruited superbly, if we'd drafted KP's instead of the players we did we'd be lamenting the lack of quality midfielders.

Not saying we've recruited badly, just what we lack.

It may have been better to have an extra tall or two , instead of so many small forwards for example, such as Johnstone, Kennedy and JKH for example.

Still a work in progress though ,and it may come next draft

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

20 minutes ago, JV7 said:

I have picked the last 3 weeks.. Knew we'd lose to Hawthorn, beat Adelaide & lose to North.. I'm not in the slightest suprised by today.. I'm so fkn over it though

The players turn up when there is steak and fine scotch on the menu. They don't bother when there's Vegemite sandwiches and cordial.

Edited May 21, 2017 by america de cali

[Ash35 425]

25 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

What??? We didn't have a ruckman. Do you not understand what difference that makes to the side? 

Bulldogs won a flag last year without a recognised ruckman......and a make shift forward line.

[Little Richard 6,262]

1 minute ago, DeeZee said:

Not saying we've recruited badly, just what we lack.

It may have been better to have an extra tall or two , instead of so many small forwards for example, such as Johnstone, Kennedy and JKH for example.

Still a work in progress though ,and it may come next draft

True. Definitely shot ourselves in the foot by not going for a mature tall or ruck in the rookie draft.

As you say though, hopefully they go with a couple of talls this season.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

42 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

And they took Trent Dumont 27 spots ahead of Jayden Hunt that same day. 

If you want to look for negatives focus on the 4 quarters. There was enough to be [censored] off about without going back to a draft 4 years ago and arguing about who was taken with pick 47.

Um I think brown jkh over Brown is worth noting, Yea Hunts great but the poster has a worthy point.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,212]

1 hour ago, frankie_d said:

They targetted Oliver and in the end we moved him of the ball. A big win for them. Why didn't we react and give stunt back? Cunnington started in on him at the first bounce, and we did NOTHING  about it. 

That was the most disappointing part of the game for me. 

Others calling the team losers, mentally fragile etc get a grip. North came out with a clear plan and it worked. They targeted Oliver and our other young mids and bombed the ball up to Brown who had been isolated one out in the goal square, often against OMac. The team had a crack our momentum was continually stunted by the maggots. I don't generally complain about the umps but the amount of one way umpiring was inexcusable today. How did Bugg not get 50 on 3/4 time? How was the ball up after we got back within 8 points not called back? Just two of a litany of borderline corrupt decision making.

Three things I wasn't happy about today (besides the maggots)

1) OMac on Brown, put Frost on him

2) not helping out Oliver

3) Weideman completely ineffectual. We're basically a man down with him out there. Not his fault he's young and should be developing in the 2s, but we don't have any other options at the moment.

Actually 4) Watts has been poor for a few games now, no urgency at the end when we desperately needed to score.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I don't feel angry about this loss, even though I should.  I'm not sure why really.  We should have won this game but I still feel as though we had a red hot go and were undone by things outside of control (mostly, anyway).

Their height had us covered all day and we could do little about it.  Most will smash Oscar for it, but Ben Brown was too tall for him and when he was allowed to get a run at it Oscar had little chance.  I'm not sure what else he can do.  I still feel as though we need another key backman, though.

What I got out of today was that we missed Jesse big time this week.  Watts and Weideman didn't trouble the scorers and both Thompson and Tarrant were too strong in the contest for them.  With Hogan, he can beat both of those one on one or at worst get the ball to ground.  We didn't have that today and it meant our smalls, like Garlett and Kent, were kept out of the game.  We kept bombing it in and they kept marking it.  Not much our small players can do in this situation.

The last thing I got out of the game is that we're now a side who are never out of the contest.  Even after a horrid first term I knew we would bounce back... and we did.  We might not have won, but that will come.  We aren't pushovers anymore and sides can't walk all over us anymore.  Once we learn how to win more consistently then we'll be a tough side to play.

Finally, kudos to Mitch Hannan who played superbly today.  I was really impressed with his efforts.

[Lucifers Hero 39,756]

15 minutes ago, A F said:

Have a read of these numbers and tell me our guys worked hard enough...

TACKLE COUNT:

Viney - 9 tackles (continues to lead the way in that department)

Pedersen -  7 tackles (terrific effort and a surprising stat)

Jones - 5 tackles (not enough when you're playing in the guts, but passable - certainly didn't set the tone enough though)

And then the rest of the entire [censored] team had the following:

Bugg, Frost, Garlett, Petracca, Wagner - 3 tackles each (Bugg and Garlett need to bring more pressure than this)

Hunt, Jetta, Kent, McDonald, Oliver and Tyson - 2 tackles each (Hunt, Kent, Oliver and Tyson show with these lack of tackles that their heads weren't in it)

When then had Hannan, Lewis, Salem and Watts on a solitary tackle each. That is not good enough for the game style we want to play. What was our bar last week? It certainly wasn't 1 tackle. Not good enough.

And to round things out our two skinny KPPs in McDonald and Weideman failed to register a single tackle. Weideman did a couple of nice things in the second half, but fell over, was pushed off it and defenders waltzed past him far too easily in the first half - and he failed to bring the ball to ground like he had done the previously week. Yes, our ball movement didn't help that, but our forwards inability to tackle allowed simple Kangaroo transition for pretty much the entire game.

The tackle stat is clearly one of the KPIs for Goodwin's game style. No way Kent keeps his spot next week. I expect Harmes or ANB will replace him.

EDIT. Harmes and ANB for Bugg and Kent. It's a bit deck chairsy though.

Last week I think Goodwin said we make 100 tackles we win. We made 90 something.  We won.

This week we make 78, North make 94.

End of story.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

16 minutes ago, praha said:

Made the tough call a few years ago that once the team improves he'll be found out. He plays as bad as those around him and that's a major indictment on his leadership skills.

It is sad. Jones never imposes himself on a game when we REALLY need it. 

It just happens time and time again. 

I wish it didn't..

 

[stinga 566]

Why does Weid always find himself under the ball when going for a mark.  He never gets momentum to jump forward to take it.  Is it just that he can't judge it or bad coaching.

[Adam The God 30,238]

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

We didn't turn up in the first quarter but I was more disappointed in the third because we fought hard to come back and let our intensity slip again which was unforgivable.

It's why I didn't cheer them off at half time (when we were still down on the scoreboard to the 17th placed side), because you could see our lapse coming in the third and we'd played so poorly in the first quarter in the first place! 

But we never looked like it today. Not once. Not even when Hunt had a clear opportunity to goal and put us in front at the start of the third, but instead was run down.

[chookrat 4,247]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That was the most disappointing part of the game for me. 

Others calling the team losers, mentally fragile etc get a grip. North came out with a clear plan and it worked. They targeted Oliver and our other young mids and bombed the ball up to Brown who had been isolated one out in the goal square, often against OMac. The team had a crack our momentum was continually stunted by the maggots. I don't generally complain about the umps but the amount of one way umpiring was inexcusable today. How did Bugg not get 50 on 3/4 time? How was the ball up after we got back within 8 points not called back? Just two of a litany of borderline corrupt decision making.

Three things I wasn't happy about today (besides the maggots)

1) OMac on Brown, put Frost on him

2) not helping out Oliver

3) Weideman completely ineffectual. We're basically a man down with him out there. Not his fault he's young and should be developing in the 2s, but we don't have any other options at the moment.

Actually 4) Watts has been poor for a few games now, no urgency at the end when we desperately needed to score.

Watts was fine, he showed poise forward of centre but the North backs dictated terms v our forwards for much of the game.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

7 minutes ago, A F said:

Thought he certainly earned another game of the back of last week. He wasn't up to it enough today though.

He was ok last week lets be honest but ts sad that ok is good enough

Before anyone screams who else is there remember that he never kicks goals. Better off without him....he is far from ready. 

[Earl Hood 6,086]

9 minutes ago, deestar said:

Nichols ... he always saves his best for us. Genuinely think he has something against us and im

Not even joking, have thought it for years

Weren't we stitched up by the umps in Hobart last year? Lost by 6 points after the umps gifted Goldy 2 or 3 of his 5 goal haul as I remember it. Big Max got pinged in the ruck duels from throw ins no matter if he was in front or behind. I remember Goldy getting a free in front of goal where Maxy was in front in the boundary throwing but somehow held Goldy unfairly. Shafted last year and somewhat the same today I thought. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, stinga said:

Why does Weid always find himself under the ball when going for a mark.  He never gets momentum to jump forward to take it.  Is it just that he can't judge it or bad coaching.

Weideman is the biggest loser as part of our injury crisis.  The kid shouldn't be playing.  But with no Gawn, Spencer and Hogan, and with Pedersen doing the majority of the ruck work, they need him in the side.  I feel bad for the kid as he clearly isn't ready, but we seemingly have little choice.  Hell, even Tim Smith is still injured.  We just have to stick with it for the time being.

[loges 6,767]

1 minute ago, chookrat said:

Watts was fine, he showed poise forward of centre but the North backs dictated terms v our forwards for much of the game.

No he wasn't continually looked for someone else to fly when it should have been him

[leave it to deever 17,511]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Three things I wasn't happy about today (besides the maggots)

1) OMac on Brown, put Frost on him

2) not helping out Oliver

3) Weideman completely ineffectual. We're basically a man down with him out there. Not his fault he's young and should be developing in the 2s, but we don't have any other options at the moment.

Actually 4) Watts has been poor for a few games now, no urgency at the end when we desperately needed to score.

Nailed it. Unlike BUggs kicking.