POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 7

[Soidee 1,496]

42 minutes ago, Scoop Junior said:

The most annoying thing is how predictable it all is.

Come out half-hearted against an out-of-form side, allow them early goals to get their confidence and belief going and find ourselves well behind early in the game. Then turn it on when hope seems gone, come roaring back into the match but fail to finish the job and lose a nailbiter.

I reckon I've seen this movie 20 times. I hated it the first time and I hated it today. We keep coming back for more but the script doesn't change.

Over and over and over again we play teams near the bottom who are down on confidence and we fail to come out switched on from the outset. I would love to be surprised for once and to see us land some big blows early against these sides but it doesn't happen. We lost to drug-banned Essendon last year but learned nothing and we continue to fail to show up when expected to win.

There are some real attitude problems that we just cannot, at the moment, get over. We've improved our list, our talent, our skill (not there yet but better), our hardness, etc. But we really are miles off it mentally. I said the same thing after the Freo game when we failed to get men back in the last few minutes. Great teams find a way to win, we simply find ways to lose. We are just so good at it. If the aim in football was to extract defeat from winnable positions we'd be the reigning triple Premiers.

And it's no surprise our best quarter was the third. The pressure was off as there was no expectation to win being 6 goals down. Then once again as soon as we drew level in the last and the expectation was we would run over them, we fail to go on with it.

I'm sick of the youth excuse. We had enough senior players out there today to lead the way. They've had these lessons before and they've learned nothing.

I'm quite happy with our physical development so far this year but mentally we are really falling well short of the mark. We need to find some answers.

Well said!  You have summed it up perfectly. Send this to the FD. for attention of Goodwin.  Ask him to post it on every players locker. This club are famous for losing the easy ones.  Lousy movie keeps getting replayed...brilliant!!

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,274]

The sad reality is that MFC is a poor - mediocre side, with some ability to occasionally pull off an upset.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

Of course there are going to be changes, only way it won't happen if Goodwin decides to let them 'redeem' themselves

So can we keep it civilised, as not all agree

Me, after backing him in JKH disappointed me today so would assume he may be one

The rest is a raffle, after Casey also lost

[Skuit 10,031]

1 hour ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

30 minutes before the game I playfully checked in here for a weather update before taking a dip in the villa pool. 

By the time I got out of the pool, my wife discovered our 2yo twins were in fact falling ill. Snot, tears and tantrums from as$hole to brick.

By the time I had extracted enough snot to fill the MCG more comfortably than the MFC fan base from two little faces, we were 35 points down. Miraculous fightback or not, you're rarely coming back from that. 

I'm glad we won last week because this is: 

WORST ENDING TO A HOLIDAY EVER! 

I've written this in a sparing 10 minute window before the kids start crying again, it's going to be a loooong night. 

And it's all your fault, Melbourne. 

 

Be fair Deemented. The Dees didn't cause the tears and tantrums of your children. They're only capable of doing that to adults on the internet.

[Adam The God 30,413]

5 hours ago, olisik said:

Can our defensive coach tell Jetta to not jump for marks when the macdonalds are around? Having 4 players jump for balls happens every game 

This is a lack of trust in his team mates. He rightfully doesn't expect either McDonald to get the job done. This is what happens unfortunately. Until we can get decent defenders who take contested and intercept marks, we'll continue to have this problem.

5 hours ago, america de cali said:

I really liked our forward who kept leading into space tirelessly all game. Can't remember his name and can't remember seeing him and neither could his teamates.

Our forwards let us down in the tackle count. Hawthorn defenders were allowed to skip away off half back all day. This, along with our inability to stop Hawthorn contested marks, was the reason for our demise today.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

14 hours ago, picket fence said:

MyTake 

1 We have no " A" Grade players

2 Many are NQR and will be gone by end of year ................................ Fill in at convenience

3 We have too many that give us a quarter of good to very good footy no more no less (Tyson et al)

4 Tommy Mac, well, he has too many brain fades, which prove costly, in fact Oscar was pretty good today I thought ( Maybe look to trade to get reliable and consistently good decision makers in defence)

5 Frost made some mistakes but loved his Dash, might have turned the corner

6 Hawthorns skills ( for an ageing team) today put us to shame. 

 

 

Max Gawn not an A grader? You are a hard marker. Lewis too, not an A Grader?

Edited May 8, 2017 by Bobby McKenzie

[Adam The God 30,413]

5 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Went down by 3 points to the best performing AFL team of all time

Their kicking was sublime

It hurt, but I'm not breaking stuff

Oh, come on, mate. We're past making excuses. This loss was more about us than them. We didn't turn up for at least the first 40 minutes today.

5 hours ago, Bates Mate said:

100% love Jetta but went up when he should of stayed down cost us at least 3-4 goal s

I reckon Wagner cost us that, not Jetta. I lost count of how many times he came across the pack and collected Melbourne players, leaving all our guys on the deck and the Hawks players running off laughing. I rate Wagner, but he was simply shocking today. One of the worst defensive games I can recall. Worse than anything OMac has dished up.

5 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

JKH and Hannan on very, very thin ice 

Reckon Hannan will be alright. Butchers it at times, but also hit some important targets today that lead to goals. And he had 6 tackles.

Petracca needs to lay more tackles when playing inside 50. Couple of really weak efforts to tackle. He looked a lot more spritely last week.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

3 hours ago, america de cali said:

I checked and it was 5-2.

I was only quoting what he said in The West Australian newspaper after their bad start this year. Bloody innacurate reporters!

[Adam The God 30,413]

5 hours ago, wizardinoz said:

How many free kicks did Roughnut get & kick goals from? You can't touch him it seems. Meanwhile we get SFA. 

It was more the clear hands in the back of his Melbourne opponent at least twice in the first three quarters. Staggeringly obvious, yet no whistle. And Hawthorn fans had the arrogance to question Hogan's clear push in the side that got him his third goal. I hate Hawthorn and always have. And what could be worse than having your Hawthorn-supporting wife sit next to you through that display? I'm not sure there is anything worse.

I think I can move on quicker these days. It's a mixture of Demonland and a detached soul that gets me through.

5 hours ago, Age said:

I have been happy to give jkh some time but I have watched him live for the last few weeks and he just isn't remotely clean with the ball. Always fumbles, a small forward has to be clean but he is not. He has been given a fair go at it now and simply isn't good enough. Time to move on. 

I reckon it might be a case of the Dunn's for JKH now. He's had his go. At least managed to tackle a bit in his first game, but hasn't been clean once, except for the kick to Hunt for his second today. In three games, he's been clean once. And it was a completely uncontested possession.

He's done at this level and I hope we never see him again. If we do, I'll be more angry with Harmes and Kent who have much greater talent than Jay. They need to lift big time. 

5 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I was against recruiting a big fish like Fyfe or Martin. But I'm starting to think a player like that is what we need. 

Let's not panic and put the patient list built to waste. Get games into the younger guys, make sure their areas of weakness are worked on and we'll get there. No need to go and get a fish. That's panic list management IMO.

5 hours ago, olisik said:

JKH, Hannan and OMac are not AFL standard.

We are trying to brood players who are not ready and it is poor judgement by the Match Comittee

It'll be interesting to see what we do with OMac next week. The MC has set a bit of a precedence on three game tests. I didn't think Tommy Mac in the ruck worked at all today. Thought he was hopeless. But I suspect they may try it one last time against Adelaide and therefore, OMac probably gets another go, but I hate to think what Lynch or Walker will do to him.

5 hours ago, DeeZee said:

The first fifteen minutes of that last quarter we really had to go on with it but didn't as they were too clever out of the center.

Or we played too dumb.

[Adam The God 30,413]

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

Liked Sam Frost's game today. Yes, he butchered it a bit, and got caught out a couple of times, but he's starting to regularly get his hands on it. Give him a year or two  - though feel like you could say that about half the team.

Petracca having a quiet(ish) day didn't help, and getting hard to see how we can have both Hannan and JKH in the same side - that's one "project" player too many. I was happy for JKH to be given the chance, but after 3 games, time for him to develop his craft in the magoos. Hannan feels like a limited player to me, certainly once the ball hits the ground.

But I don't really see that changing those two does more than shuffle the deck chairs, and we didn't lose just because of them. Main issue is that it's going to be a slog without Gawn or Spencer. Pedersen just isn't tall enough, and opposition teams will just play to exploit that weakness. As we saw today.

I liked Frost's game today too, but Pedersen in the ruck is not the problem. Yes, we've lost an advantage, but we're still winning the ball and dominating the clearances. However, with Gawn back in, I think it will allow our attacking game to flourish a little more.

Maybe I agree with you after all that, mate?

5 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Today was a bad loss, lost that game purely from not turning up to play. How you can come up and get jumped by the team on the bottom of the ladder is behind me. They should've walked onto that ground ready to boost percentage and show the competition they are a serious football team. Instead they are losing from the opening bounce and you could see within a few minutes that lots of the players out there couldn't care less. 

Being competitive is no longer acceptable. This group is now behind where it was last year despite having an easier fixture without leaving Melbourne for two months. Really disappointing that 2017 seems to be another 'development' year without playing finals. This list is capable of playing top quality football. Why can't the coaches get them to do it for a full game. They are professional athletes who spend their lives training and preparing, why can't they do the job they're employed to do?

Next week JKH has to go. Kent straight in. JKH gives no defensive pressure, another 0 tackle game. Difference between him and Kent is JKH doesn't hit the scoreboard, ever. At least Kent kicks a few goals even if his defensive pressure is inconsistent. Waste of a spot out there. Don't wanna see him in red and blue again. 

Agree with a lot of this, although I suspect the inexperience is a big factor in the 'why' we can't bring this consistently.

And it is a development year even if we make finals. We're not trying to win the flag this year. We're looking to the future and also expecting to win enough games this year to get us a finals birth. 

Kent doesn't come in unless he dominated at Casey. That's not what I've heard. They need to make Kent earn his spot. He's a lazy footballer. I'd keep giving games to Harmes and even ANB, despite the temptation to play a more talented player in Kent.

And JKH hasn't had "another 0 tackle game". That was his first 0 tackle game. But as I've said elsewhere, I've seen enough. He's gone for mine too.

5 hours ago, praha said:

this is a very weird team.

We Have inefficient players across the ground and lack forward cohesion yet still manage winnable scores. 

We don't have a ruckman but our clearance factor is impressive.

We dominate possession but arent effective enough.

We green tick some boxes but get a big red stamp in others. 

We are actually getting a lot of the ball despite no dedicated ruckman. 

I see things changing for us in a very positive way but I've been immensely disappointed by our leaders. We're on the right track but occasionally find ourselves on the wrong one.

Not sure if we'll play finals but I'm still confident we'll go on a tear at some point this season and win 4-5 in a row.

Me too, mate. Great post.

My mates today giving me the absolute shits and telling me there's no way we'll make the 8 and that the 8 is a lock. Once again, they've got no idea what they're talking about in such an even season. My St Kilda mate seems to have forgotten we easily accounted for his mob earlier in the season. Short memories and a lack of analysis.

But I'm sure it is going to click for us at some stage and I suspect it'll coincide with Gawn's return.

5 hours ago, QueensBirthday said:

Just reading the thread. I was at the game and I don't understand all the hate directed at Bugg. He won a lot of one-on-one contests and moved to good positions to receive the mark exiting the backline. 

Anyone who disagrees watch the replay, you'll see his steadying influence.

Did he have an effective disposal all day? Apparently, he did. He went at 65%, which is what people have been bemoaning Tyson for. But Bugg isn't playing in the guts. He's playing off half forward and a wing. He also managed just 1 tackle.

He's another guy who I've seen enough of (along with JKH). I knew he was depth, but Harmes and ANB have gone well past him as depth. I hope we didn't give him a three year contract, but I suspect we did.

[dee-tox 4,835]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

Me, after backing him in JKH disappointed me today so would assume he may be one

 

Jeesus man, it was a ridiculous decision three weeks ago. Stupid selections like this have cost us games.

[Adam The God 30,413]

5 hours ago, bjDee said:

I get the emotion AF.  And congrats too by the way.

Viney was just an absolute Trojan today. So many times he was the guy putting his head down to wrench the ball out of hands, and forging through the congestion to get it out and free to a teammate. Just loved his game, so many times, from high up in the stand.

As for Jones - to me it was a story of 2 parts. The first qtr he had at least 3 very frustrating turnovers by foot, direct to opponents. Geez it was infuriating when we were on a burst and suddenly Jones managed to cough it up.

But then he got slowly back into the game.

And from then on, if you have a look at anyone under pressure when Jones is in the vicinity, who do they look to when they need to dish it off?  Jones. They always go back or sideways to Jones, whether he's in the clear or under pressure, because Jones is thier get-out clause. He is their hero. It happened several times today. They look to Jones because he above all will do something to get them out of the poo, quickly and usually effectively.  Jones willingly takes on the pressure situations that our other players can't deal with   

And that's why I think they vote him as one of their leaders. 

Thanks mate.

And yes, they look to Jones for help, but he's not talented enough IMO to warrant this faith. I think occasional bursts in the middle and pinging off the defensive zone are his go from now on (did this terrifically against St Kilda). He calls for the ball far too often when he shouldn't and he's under pressure immediately. He either proceeds to turn it over or we get a stoppage. Very rarely does he get us out of a tight situation. 

For the record, I'd want to play with Jones, because he tries his heart out, but I wouldn't expect him to turn a game if I play with him.

5 hours ago, ProperDee said:

It's very difficult to try and be positive after again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I'd reckon that with a true ruckman, either Big Maxy or Jake Spencer,  we would more than likely have won. 

Yes, JKH isn't up to it but now the FD doesn't have to wonder. Goody placed the ball fairly and squarely in his court and he fluffed it. Now it's time for a line to go through his name. He cannot blame lack of opportunity. It's a slow process giving opportunities to fringe players but it's really the only way to assess their value. 

Somebody brought up the issue of small forwards. My view is that It's time for Nate Jones to fill a FP alongside Jesse with Jeffy in the other pocket. His strength and attack on the footy would place a lot of pressure on opposition defenders and help keep the ball inside our forward 50.

Having said all that, it's time for Petracca to take up Jonesy's job in the middle. He looked very good in there today. Rotating Ollie, Tracs, Jack, Don, Lewy and even Jayden Hunt through the middle would add to our clearances. Salem is not a mid yet though and is better suited to a HBF.

I am not unhappy with our progress. When we take into account our first season coach, young players and run of injuries we are doing OK. With a little bit of luck we could be 6 & 1 or at least 5 & 2.  I would love to see how we look playing 4 quarters of our best footy though. 

Finally, we are in desperate need of a quality FB. We will never be truly competitive whilst we need to rely on Tom and Oscar.

Good post.

Jake Lever next to Frost, Hibberd, Lewis and Jetta looks pretty good to me. I'm losing hope of T McDonald ever improving his disposal enough to be a reliable defender, but we'll see. 

I suspect once we start using the ball better going inside 50 and getting cleaner clearances, we will be a very hard team to beat. I think we'll then add a layer of more robust and impregnable defence, once our defenders have played with each other for a season or two. At that point, we'll be a top 4 team. 

Our dominance in the clearances without a recognised ruckman is Bulldogs-esque and top 4-esque. The longer our younger mids play together and develop a synergy, the better and more efficient we'll be from the stoppages.

5 hours ago, demondame said:

Just got home after getting most of the post match post mortem done at a bar in the G. The thing I still don't get, is why we can play 2 halves of football that are so radically different from each other. What happened at halftime to make us hit targets, run harder and find space? If it was simply Jayden hunt going forward, why didn't that move happen earlier?

I'm just a fan, a ridiculously over invested fan, and I don't get it. Can someone explain?

Also, like the rest of you, I'm so utterly sick of losing. Looking at the ladder tonight is utterly depressing. Only consolation is that Essendon lost. 

Can't stand the hawks supporters. Smug.

Mind-set. It's all mind-set. That comes with experience and good coaching. 

[Adam The God 30,413]

5 hours ago, --coach-- said:

After the game the Melbourne coach declared the players brought a questionable attitude to the game against Hawthorn on Sunday. AFL website: http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-07/dees-attitude-was-questionable-goodwin

My question is, when will we stop bringing a questionable attitude to games???

But don't worry. We're "preparing for their best".

[Rogue 585]

In the first half we butchered the footy going forward and if we'd been a bit cleaner we would have won.

Frost does these horrible things but I like that he was taking the game on in the second half instead of going into his shell.

Hunt to the forward line in the third was a great move.

JKH has been horrible and I'm about ready to mark his cards. It's really disappointing Kent and Brayshaw aren't fit/in form.

53 minutes ago, A F said:

It was more the clear hands in the back of his Melbourne opponent at least twice in the first three quarters. Staggeringly obvious, yet no whistle.

Extremely frustrating, and resulted in two Hawthorn goals. What was the margin again?

30 minutes ago, A F said:

Did he have an effective disposal all day? Apparently, he did. He went at 65%, which is what people have been bemoaning Tyson for. But Bugg isn't playing in the guts. He's playing off half forward and a wing. He also managed just 1 tackle.

Yeah, I'm not a fan and will be surprised if he's ever best 22.

And yes, they look to Jones for help, but he's not talented enough IMO to warrant this faith. I think occasional bursts in the middle and pinging off the defensive zone are his go from now on (did this terrifically against St Kilda). He calls for the ball far too often when he shouldn't and he's under pressure immediately. He either proceeds to turn it over or we get a stoppage. Very rarely does he get us out of a tight situation.

I thought it had really improved compared to earlier in his career, but this season hasn't been his finest. Still gives the ball off well by hand.

 

[Adam The God 30,413]

4 hours ago, Skuit said:

Trust and positioning.

One of our defenders said earlier in the year that Goodie had given them license to be courageous, leave their men, and fly for the spoil. This license needs to be suspended while we go back and learn some tactical basics.

It's okay to be taught to back yourself in and trust your abilities, but you also need to trust that your teammate can effect the spoil so you can be better positioned at the fall.

Likewise. There is nothing inherently wrong with a lot of handballs. Our drive in the third came off the back of attacking hand-balling. But if all of your mids are within two meters of the ball at the same time it is going to come unstuck.

We are a good contested team, and it's built on inside strength, not because we all go for the ball at once. Trust your teammates to win the ball and create some space for them.

There was a passage toward the end, where Hunt was chasing down a Hawk who was running back toward a loose ball on our forward flank boundary. Hunt had him corralled but Salem came off his man to provide extra pressure for the tackle. The ball was released to Salem's opponent and off they went with a free man.

Trust your teammates. It will help you to maintain better positioning in the contests. 

 

This was a really dumb play. I said exactly the same thing at the time. It summed up Salem's game for me today.

He's usually a very clever player, but he really showed his inexperience in this play.

Completely agree about the lack of trust in team mates too.

[Akum 2,660]

Astute coaches (Hardwick, Lyon, Clarko) are now playing the same way against us. They have not just one spare in defence, but 2 or 3. They know we're such a good contested-ball & clearance team, but the one place where they can reliably win the ball against us is from our horrible delivery into our 50. Their extra numbers not only win them the ball, they allow them to run it through our ultra-high press in a breakaway.

Goody et al simply have to work out what to do when there are 8 or 9 defenders against 5 forwards, because bombing it on Hogan's head ain't ever gonna work when he's triple-teamed. 

And it seems we're more comfortable with brave losses than actual wins. It could be argued that we've outplayed the other side in every game (certainly statistically we have). We're the kings of outplaying but losing, and that's a real concern, because it means that other sides don't have to outplay us to beat us. 

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

2 hours ago, bingers said:

The sad reality is that MFC is a poor - mediocre side, with some ability to occasionally pull off an upset.

Club

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

We needed to impose ourselves on this game from the start, not let them jump us and get some confidence.

Soft easy goals to the other side is exactly what can't happen.

If it looks like you can't score early, you ensure the other side can't, by pressure, more pressure and then even more pressure.

Didn't happen.

We played dumb, soft footy early, with no pressure, poor skill, stupid handball, poor defence and a lack of basic football fundamentals.

This lack of pressure at the man and attack on the ball, allowed them to score easily and then their football skills came to the fore with the confidence that easy goals bring.

Is there a rule at the MFC that you handball at all costs, in every situation when you have the ball?

Is there another rule that when contesting a mark, all MFC players in the vicinity are to jump and leave unattended opposition, for the inevitable crumbs, or the polar opposite, no one contests and allows the opposition to mark easily without pressure?

Is there another rule that you don't go straight to goal when you have the ball, to have your forwards one out, with a chance to score, but rather chip backwards or across the goal every time, until you lose possession? 

We play these rules beautifully.

Agree with all of that. With regards to the highlighted... We have two problems here I believe. 

We have no genuine lead up forward who can take a good overhead and kick accurately from 40 to 50.

Hogan is our only genuine key forward but sits too deep and doesn't like to lead very much if at all.

The opp know this and just plonk an extra man in front of Hogan or a third man in from the side to take him out of contests.

Lastly we have no mid who can consistently hit a lead up target by foot even if we had a regular one (Watts the occasional exception).

We effectively have a very good extraction mid field but one who can't hit a target up forward very often and we have no lead up targets to go for anyway. 

Even when we do the only thing we are capable of, long bombs inside 50, When the ball hits the deck there is usually no one to crumb and very little pressure placed on the opp coming out and they usually also have the extra man to run it out. Jeffy the obvious exception.

This is why we win many of the inside 50 counts but lose on the scoreboard and the match, most of the time. The exception is occasionally when Watts plays a deep 50 role for a while and  leads and we occasionally do manage to hit him. Which doesn't occur often enough in most matches.

Until we fix the above we will continue to lose most matches. Too much up field effort (and over use of hand ball yes) for not enough reward and constant rebound goals from our opponents.

 

4 hours ago, Scoop Junior said:

The most annoying thing is how predictable it all is.

Come out half-hearted against an out-of-form side, allow them early goals to get their confidence and belief going and find ourselves well behind early in the game. Then turn it on when hope seems gone, come roaring back into the match but fail to finish the job and lose a nailbiter.

I reckon I've seen this movie 20 times. I hated it the first time and I hated it today. We keep coming back for more but the script doesn't change.

Over and over and over again we play teams near the bottom who are down on confidence and we fail to come out switched on from the outset. I would love to be surprised for once and to see us land some big blows early against these sides but it doesn't happen. We lost to drug-banned Essendon last year but learned nothing and we continue to fail to show up when expected to win.

There are some real attitude problems that we just cannot, at the moment, get over. We've improved our list, our talent, our skill (not there yet but better), our hardness, etc. But we really are miles off it mentally. I said the same thing after the Freo game when we failed to get men back in the last few minutes. Great teams find a way to win, we simply find ways to lose. We are just so good at it. If the aim in football was to extract defeat from winnable positions we'd be the reigning triple Premiers.

And it's no surprise our best quarter was the third. The pressure was off as there was no expectation to win being 6 goals down. Then once again as soon as we drew level in the last and the expectation was we would run over them, we fail to go on with it.

I'm sick of the youth excuse. We had enough senior players out there today to lead the way. They've had these lessons before and they've learned nothing.

I'm quite happy with our physical development so far this year but mentally we are really falling well short of the mark. We need to find some answers.

Send this in to the club please. 

52 minutes ago, Akum said:

Astute coaches (Hardwick, Lyon, Clarko) are now playing the same way against us. They have not just one spare in defence, but 2 or 3. They know we're such a good contested-ball & clearance team, but the one place where they can reliably win the ball against us is from our horrible delivery into our 50. Their extra numbers not only win them the ball, they allow them to run it through our ultra-high press in a breakaway.

Goody et al simply have to work out what to do when there are 8 or 9 defenders against 5 forwards, because bombing it on Hogan's head ain't ever gonna work when he's triple-teamed. 

And it seems we're more comfortable with brave losses than actual wins. It could be argued that we've outplayed the other side in every game (certainly statistically we have). We're the kings of outplaying but losing, and that's a real concern, because it means that other sides don't have to outplay us to beat us. 

I don't know about 2 or 3 but I agree there's usually at least one and we play beautifully into the opponent's hands coming inside 50 almost the entire match and in most matches. Hence why we have lost in most matches but have mostly either won or close to break even on the inside 50 count.

Quality clubs must lick their defensive chops at the prospect of playing against our forward line and how we butcher the ball deliverimg to it and have no dangerous lead target/s with the exception of Watts as an occasional cameo. Too easy to beat guys.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Rusty Nails

[pitmaster 3,578]

Just registering my disappointment. I agree with so much on this thread sadly. Dumb decision making; lack of effort and run in the first half, overuse of the ball, hand passing to team mates under pressure (Viney in the last quarter hand passing when a short kick would have done - and I pick on him because he is so good and a leader but it was dumb dumb dumb football); multiple defenders flying together with none staying down, let alone staying down goal side, Vince undisciplined again and a smart coach against us who exploited our lack of height and tendency to over-use.

We should or could be 6-1. The games against Richmond, Freo and Hawthorn all thrown away. We don't seem able to win when the fates are against us - so much went wrong with the ball running for Hawthorn and Roughhead having some protected species status - but even so this was there to be won.

The only consolation is this ends the JKH debate. He did a bit, had a goal assist but when the time came to nail a goal for himself his kick was all wrong with too much air and never looked like getting the result. It reeked of not quite good enough, not confident enough and not skilled enough.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

Just putting it out there... we are 2 games from second (or sixth), we have had opportunity to win ALL games, vs the last decade of never being in games. Clearly, the team struggles to put four full quarters together (letting teams get leads, squandering our own). Personnel will change, attrition will happen. As disappointing as it is to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - I for one, STILL see an upwards trajectory. 

Oh and

JKH, how I wanted you to achieve 

But it will be Casey I believe

I was hoping you'd be a devil

You're just not quite at AFL level 

 

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,231]

9 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Just home. A few observations before I see the replay.

1) It grates to see us lose to the Hawks and also that a so-called hack in No.23 plays his best ever game against us. A few times O'Brien marked because of our zone being breached, but the majority were off forced kicks down the line and he'd come in from the side like Howey used to do. The question that begs is why wasn't his opponent making it harder to block his run? So who was his opponent - mix of T-Mac, O-Mac and Wags I think. Not Frost because he was at full-back on Roughy most of game.

2) Twice we had five defenders flying for the one ball - which means their roles haven't been made clear enough. Jetta always flies rather than stay down and with Wagner now joining in you have to wonder if he has to be told is he third man up to spoil or whether he just lack experience to read the play. Their last goal (maybe second last) came via a courageous effort by him to spoil a marking contest that the Macs had covered. He got winded and the ball spilt to his opponent. Great courage, even greater stupidity.

3) Watts in the ruck. How many more weeks do we have to use him in this role for a fair whack of the game? I can tell you now, he won't have any chance against Jacobs and it is no longer a shock for his opponent. This is the second game in a row where he has been murdered early and only T-Mac was able to get us a fairly even split. I have no problem with a Watts in the ruck cameo as it can get him in the game more and he can exploit going the other way with a loose opponent. But the ploy as a regular back-up is a laughing stock for other sides. Pedo got burnt by McEvoy today, so we have big issues next week - perhaps we may have to bite the bullet and start O-Mac or T-Mac with a view that Pedo can be the trusty back-up. For the second week in a row, Pedo was thrashed in the hitouts early. This time he was still getting beaten up late in the game. he ain't tall enough for Jacobs. problem ahead.

4) Why is Salem not playing down back? I get that a lot of people want his silky (offensive word) skills in the middle but he's not big enough to be a brute against the current players and never recovered today after Oliver spoiled his overhead mark. And let me think - where was he playing when he was best on ground versus Carlton? That's right ... half-back. Play him there please.

5) What happened to the switch back like in the first two weeks. I get that we want to switch but suddenly we aren't buying in as much to switching back the way it came from. If we are playing soccer style (and we are), then trust that something will eventually open up and don't listen to the old blocks in the stand.

6) I don't want to join the JKH bashing, but it's hard for anyone to understand why you remove a player who has finally arrived last year (Kent) and then take out a player who does all the hard things and is quick (Harmes) and go for a really small guy who is not quick and can't tackle. If we are playing basketball, then JKH might be a Patty Mills, but I'm sorry this ain't basketball. I will be looking on the replay to see just how many crumbs JKH got. Jeffy was the same till half time, but at least he read it better in the third.

7) If our philosophy is to run hard and fast on the break then how come we are playing Bugg, Tyson, Vince, Lewis all in the the same side. The obvious answer for three of them is clear - Lewis is smart, Vince is a lethal kick (unless there is only 20 seconds to go) and Tyson is a quality ball user (usually) who keeps presenting. But how can you pick Bugg as well ahead of Stretch or Harmes or Kent. Please note: It is fine to have slow players with big tanks, but there has to be the right balance and today we got exposed on the break by them, almost as much as we exposed them. Bugg should not have played unless one of the above three was out and even then I'd have my doubts.

8) Final thing. In our passion to keep possession have we created a monster. We are overdoing the backwards handball way too much and the biggest culprit is our greatest talent - Oliver. At what point does the coach sit him down and explain that stats mean nothing if you don't take the game forward on occasions. Time for a chat with him Goody. And if he won't kick it, start him up forward - he's classy enough to find the pill anywhere. And even he wouldn't handball backward from 10m out ... or would he?

 

 

 

 

Great post. I agree with every point. We lost this one at the selection table by replacing Harmes and Kent with JKH and Bugg. They aren't the best players but they have more strings to their bow than those two. 

[beelzebub 23,383]

Not for the first time but now to the greatest number, 40,083 have been sold a pup again.

It's as though Groundhog Day was based on a Melbourne Supporter.

The blade of the shovel is changed any number of times as is the handle and we still have the same useless broken thing.

Losing earlier games was lamentable but yesterday......

Realy not sure why i should bother. Club doesn't, obviously.

2017 going nowhere. 

We mock the Tigers as pretenders. I'm thinking we ought look in the mirror.

We're soft in the head on the field and WE must be off it to keep barracking.

The laughing stock is much closer than some realise.

[Biffen 12,947]

7 hours ago, Rafiki said:

Also for once I agreed with BT with something, why were the runners on the ground for so long? They were standing on the field for minutes at a time doing nothing.

To fill space- its another Hawthorn innovation.

[JV7 2,354]

Have had a bit more of a think about it & for whatever reason our game style & play changed in that third quarter & was like the play we saw against the saints..

The dinky stupid 1m handball to flat footed players was replaced by clever link up chain handballs to moving players & we looked awesome moving the footy. 3 qrt time ruined our momentum & Hawthorn (like other sides this year) were clever enough in the 4th to keep possession of the ball & deny it from us, which is our problem... We can't get the footy off sides & try to wrestle back the momentum just like the Freo game & it's vise versa when sides have a run on us, we can't get the footy & posses it to stop the rot... 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,299]

11 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

What's going on with our forward structure? Seemed great last week with Watts as a deep forward with Petracca but it was just so dysfunctional today. They need to sort this out, ASAP as I actually think Watts plays a better deep forward than Hogan.

Watts FF Hogan CHF