Lynden Dunn v Oscar McD - Interesting

[Cranky Franky 2,203]

There are lots of supporters on this site that always back every decision the coaching staff make.  At the moment Jack Trengove can't get a game & while many are scratching their heads plenty are backing Goodwin & saying that Trengove is too slow & can't cut it any more.

It was therefore fascinating to see Dunn come into the Collingwood team & play a very good game, keeping Hawkins quiet & making team of the week - he might have been handy when we lost to Geelong a few weeks ago.

Many of us are still completely bamboozled as to why a former vice captain went from first 18 to Casey almost overnight & was replaced with Oscar McD despite being our only big bodied defender.

That's why I have always been a supporter of an independent Selection Committee because 3 or 5 heads are better than 1 and coaches sometimes make monumental stuff ups. 

Football history is littered with coaches & Clubs that made the wrong call on players.

Its very early days but I hope dumping Dunn is not one of them.

  

[Moonshadow 17,678]

One swallow does not make a summer. He's played one game out of 6. Let's see how Lynden goes for the next 6 weeks.

Wonder if he'll slam another torp out from the goal square against the coaches orders.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Moonshadow

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

5 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

That's why I have always been a supporter of an independent Selection Committee because 3 or 5 heads are better than 1 and coaches sometimes make monumental stuff ups. 

How about an ombudsman and a royal commission too?

Dunn, and it was good to see, would have been highly motivated to show his coach that he's best 22. But let's see him actually hold down that spot before condemning anyone to death.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,525]

The issue with Hawkins in Round 3 was the speed and ease with which Geelong was able to get the ball into him once they penetrated our press.  Collingwood denied him this easy ball which assisted Dunn as he wasn't caught out of position.

 

One on one, Dunn is superior to O'Mac, however nowadays you need a whole team defender to stop the opposition scoring.

 

On addition, as far as list management goes, Dunn has already reached his ceiling while I believe o'Mac is still a long way off.

 

 I like Dunn and I think he should be very proud of the career he's made for himself.  Started as a key forward, moved to midfielder, then KPD- he's certainly proved himself to be versatile. However it's benefitted him to move to collingwood where he'll find more opportunity.

[Adam The God 30,603]

He can't play in a zonal system. He's at his best with a man on man system. If a player doesn't suit your system and isn't adaptable, you go out and find someone who is.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

I've always thought one on one is best for Dunny. He's not good with structures or zones and often played the percentages against his man only.

[rjay 25,302]

36 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

That's why I have always been a supporter of an independent Selection Committee because 3 or 5 heads are better than 1 and coaches sometimes make monumental stuff ups. 

As I've said previously the day of the Chairman of selectors and selection committee went out with a couple of beers and a few sausages after training.

By it's nature an independent selection committee would be formed by a bunch of part timers....they wouldn't have a handle on all that needs to be considered in selection.

Leave selection to the coaches.

Employ the right people and although we may nit pick about some of the selections and trades, overall the results will follow.

[P-man 13,366]

If Dunny puts in a consistent block of performances and Pies fans start claiming credit for turning his career around, I will have a decision to make: laugh or vomit.

[buck_nekkid 6,068]

Dunn was a great servant of our club, and I wish him well.  I dont think he suits the 'fearless football' mantra - he is great 1:1 and kicking down the line.  OMac might be developing, but I reckon he is quicker, can play zone/intercept, get off a man and suit our structures better.  DUnn would just slow and anchor the defence, and might be suitable for about 3 or 4 matchups per year.

On the 'independent selectors' - can I please call 'BS'.  Why hire and empower a professional coach and coaching department if you are then going to put another layer of admin over them for selection?  Your massive assumption is that the coach is somehow 'playing favourites' - where is your evidence?  Without being a fly on the wall, you (along with the rest of us) have no clue as to why they make the calls they do.  some are obvious, some less so.  We as fans can argue if we agree with them or not, but 'independent selectors' are only needed if you dont trust and believe in your coach to do their job. 

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

I am a Lynden Dunn fan, and was sad to see him move - to the Pies of all teams! However, lookong at the way the Dees team evolved under Roos and how Goodwin now is coaching them to play, I reckon it was a good move for him. He has always played well on a player, but when we win the ball our ball movement and running patterns require repeated running and the ability to switch from attacking setup to defending setup. It looks like this zone type attack/defend play happens too quickly for Dunny and he gets lost in transition. Attacking teams would figure this out and play through his player, making him run and change setup constantly. 

Oscar is the exact opposite with one extra flaw. His transition running is very, very good. His run and attack to punch the ball away in a marking contest is also really good. But he gets annihilated with a big bodied one-on-one forward, and his short sharp in-close decision making is atrocious. Body size and body maturity will fix the first, experience will (hopefully) fix the latter. I can see why they persevere with him in place of Dunny, but the game-by-game learning process can be gut wrenching to watch. 

[Cranky Franky 2,203]

12 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Dunn was a great servant of our club, and I wish him well.  I dont think he suits the 'fearless football' mantra - he is great 1:1 and kicking down the line.  OMac might be developing, but I reckon he is quicker, can play zone/intercept, get off a man and suit our structures better.  DUnn would just slow and anchor the defence, and might be suitable for about 3 or 4 matchups per year.

On the 'independent selectors' - can I please call 'BS'.  Why hire and empower a professional coach and coaching department if you are then going to put another layer of admin over them for selection?  Your massive assumption is that the coach is somehow 'playing favourites' - where is your evidence?  Without being a fly on the wall, you (along with the rest of us) have no clue as to why they make the calls they do.  some are obvious, some less so.  We as fans can argue if we agree with them or not, but 'independent selectors' are only needed if you dont trust and believe in your coach to do their job. 

I'm sure North supporters are glad they had a selection committee that overruled Ron Barassi when he wanted to drop Blight after the drawn GF.  Alan Jeans didn't do the Club any favours by trading away Ian Stewart & if St Kilda had of made Ross Lyon more accountable they might not have got rid of Luke Ball & recruited Andrew Lovett & would probably had an extra flag in their cupboard. 

[Dees2014 2,377]

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

There are lots of supporters on this site that always back every decision the coaching staff make.  At the moment Jack Trengove can't get a game & while many are scratching their heads plenty are backing Goodwin & saying that Trengove is too slow & can't cut it any more.

It was therefore fascinating to see Dunn come into the Collingwood team & play a very good game, keeping Hawkins quiet & making team of the week - he might have been handy when we lost to Geelong a few weeks ago.

Many of us are still completely bamboozled as to why a former vice captain went from first 18 to Casey almost overnight & was replaced with Oscar McD despite being our only big bodied defender.

That's why I have always been a supporter of an independent Selection Committee because 3 or 5 heads are better than 1 and coaches sometimes make monumental stuff ups. 

Football history is littered with coaches & Clubs that made the wrong call on players.

Its very early days but I hope dumping Dunn is not one of them.

  

Try Stef Martin. 

[jnrmac 20,276]

1 hour ago, A F said:

He can't play in a zonal system. He's at his best with a man on man system. If a player doesn't suit your system and isn't adaptable, you go out and find someone who is.

Yep. The day we played St Kilda (which I think was his last game) he was abysmal. Gave away 2 x 50m penalties, got smashed by Membrey & Reiwoldt, Kept pushing too far up the ground and wouldn't keep the structure.

Final straw was his torp from the kick in that sailed back straight over his head for goal The coaches box went ballistic and he was dragged never to return.

In his best year he lost only a single one on one contest but like Garland that was a long time ago and the game seems to have passed them by.

[rjay 25,302]

34 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

I'm sure North supporters are glad they had a selection committee that overruled Ron Barassi when he wanted to drop Blight after the drawn GF.  Alan Jeans didn't do the Club any favours by trading away Ian Stewart & if St Kilda had of made Ross Lyon more accountable they might not have got rid of Luke Ball & recruited Andrew Lovett & would probably had an extra flag in their cupboard. 

...and a part timer who came in to look over our footy department and select a new coach got it totally wrong.

No matter his credentials and media expert status, I certainly wouldn't want these types on a selection committee.

You hire the professionals for a reason, if they are not doing the job as has been the case with some of our poor choices, you move them on.

You can't just pick and chose the odd selections/trades over the history of the game, and make assumptions.

Was it Lyon who recruited Lovett or was it the list manager?

Luke Ball was not in favour with Lyon...do you let him or the coach go?

Maybe Ron was right, North might have won by an even bigger margin and because of his stand gone on to win the next 4...but that we will never know.

We're in a different time, it's a professional game now.

You just hope the good calls outweigh the mistakes because you are not going to get everything right.

2nd guessing and going for the perfect game just leads to inertia.

[Biffen 12,949]

Wonder if the pies will chase Frawley to steady the backline.

Garland might be looking to move in 2018 as well.

That"ll be 4 top- line defenders, with enormous experience .

Its an exciting prospect for them.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,525]

Very confused by how this proposed 'independent panel' would work.

Surely the coaches have a game plan and tactics they wish to employ, then they select a team that can best execute this.  Someone removed from this would be putting the cart before the horse...

[old55 23,833]

2 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

 

That's why I have always been a supporter of an independent Selection Committee because 3 or 5 heads are better than 1 and coaches sometimes make monumental stuff ups. 

  

You mean as used at the Dogs/Beveridge, Hawthorn/Clarkson, Sydney/Roos-Longmire, Geelong/Thompson-Scott, Collingwood/Malthouse, West Coast/Worsfold, Brisbane/Matthews, Essendon/Sheedy, North/Pagan, Adelaide/Blight in every premiership for the last 20+ years?

The Head Coach doesn't make selection decisions alone - there IS a selection committee.  But the coach is head of that committee.  He has to be if he is going to be held accountable.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Fifty-5

[The heart beats true 18,183]

I really like the idea of one independent person working with Goodwin on selection - but only on the condition that person is me. Otherwise it's a terrible idea.

Im pretty sure we all feel that way.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

28 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Very confused by how this proposed 'independent panel' would work.

Surely the coaches have a game plan and tactics they wish to employ, then they select a team that can best execute this.  Someone removed from this would be putting the cart before the horse...

That's what I was about to say. Coach and his assistants have a plan, and pick players to fit that plan.

And I hardly think Goodwin is making team selections on his own. It would be in consultation with other coaches, dare I say it, like some sort of selection panel.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

2 hours ago, P-man said:

If Dunny puts in a consistent block of performances and Pies fans start claiming credit for turning his career around, I will have a decision to make: laugh or vomit.

Cut to the chase: think of C-wood and immediately vomit. Saves time.
 

[jnrmac 20,276]

57 minutes ago, Biffen said:

Wonder if the pies will chase Frawley to steady the backline.

Garland might be looking to move in 2018 as well.

That"ll be 4 top- line defenders, with enormous experience .

Its an exciting prospect for them.

That's a hell of a sense of humour you have

 

[DubDee 26,306]

The Pies defence is shocking and he couldnt get a game until round 6.  good on him for playing well but certainly dont think we made a bad move, moving him on

[demonoid 317]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Yep. The day we played St Kilda (which I think was his last game) he was abysmal. Gave away 2 x 50m penalties, got smashed by Membrey & Reiwoldt, Kept pushing too far up the ground and wouldn't keep the structure.

Final straw was his torp from the kick in that sailed back straight over his head for goal The coaches box went ballistic and he was dragged never to return.

In his best year he lost only a single one on one contest but like Garland that was a long time ago and the game seems to have passed them by.

Stole my thunder re st kilda game. Agree that was the moment I knew it was over. There will be games that will make him look good because the flow of play will assist but for the most part the way the game is played now doesn't suit him.

[What 18,810]

If the rumours about us chasing Steven May and Jake Lever are true, perhaps the coaching staff isn't so high n O Mac.

I'd prefer Frost to Dunn though. Dunn wouldn't be in our team if he was still around.

[leehow 303]

3 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

If the rumours about us chasing Steven May and Jake Lever are true, perhaps the coaching staff isn't so high n O Mac.

I'd prefer Frost to Dunn though. Dunn wouldn't be in our team if he was still around.

Are they rumours or just Demonland wishes?