The "Viney can't kick" stigma...fair or unfair?

[P-man 13,168]

A comment I've heard and read often is along the lines of "Viney would be a gun if he wasn't a butcher".

How accurate is this appraisal? To my eyes he's made some improvement in this area although I can't say I've paid a lot of attention. DE stats are very misleading, although if you pay them any credence then he has remained around 66% for the past three seasons. Whilst not great, his main task is to clear the ball out of congestion rather than sideways kicks across halfback so his efficiency is never going to be amazing.

His set shot goal from right on the boundary on the weekend suggests that as a technician, he is far from a lost cause. Again, field kicking is a different beast but it's still all about dropping the leather onto the boot.

Have astute observers seen anything with regards to JV's kicking improving in terms of technique?

How much does it actually need to improve moving forward? Fyfe and Danger won't exactly be remembered as brilliant kicks of the footy so it's not like it's a necessity. But it helps, depending on what other weapons are being brought to the table.

Cheers. Love youse all.

Edited March 8, 2017 by P-man

[Guest]

I think part of it is the impression left behind by Todd's kicking.

As much as Todd was great in going in hard and putting the hurt on the opposition, some of his disposal could be pretty bloody average. That came about mostly from the fact that he played tennis from the ages of 13 to 17, so it was remarkable he got to a level where he could play league footy. 

I think that some take a mental short cut and assume that since Jack with Todd are/were competitive and physical mongrels that they both must be awful bloody kicks. Jack isn't Adem Yze/Travis Johnstone/Brad Green smooth with his kicking, but you could never accuse him of being a butcher either.

[Skuit 9,169]

 

This is a drawing of a long bow.

[nutbean 8,837]

I don't think he is a butcher but he is also far from elite. He does get a lot of his possessions in "heat" but he can miss kicks he should make.

Like all footballers, you weigh up their pluses and minuses and in Viney's case his benefit to the team far outweigh the odd miskick.

[DeeZee 6,731]

I haven't heard it all the time.

Did you see that cracker of a goal he kicked from the boundary in the first JLT?

[dazzledavey36 48,718]

19 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

I haven't heard it all the time.

Did you see that cracker of a goal he kicked from the boundary in the first JLT?

But did you see him miss that goal from 20m out dead in front?

[ArtificialWisdom 3,848]

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

But did you see him miss that goal from 20m out dead in front?

Yeah i think Viney has the Vanders problem. Seems to slot the difficult ones and miss the easy ones

[ignition. 1,413]

To be honest, I haven't analyzed or picked up on his disposal efficiency at games, I'll be sure to do so this year.

With that said, he is a hard-nosed first-at-it on-baller who's typically under more pressure and has a greater tendency to bang it on the boot to get it out of congestion.

So I'd expect his disposal efficiency to be lower than those on the wing.

 

But like I said, I'll put more attention into watching his unpressured kicks this year.

[Chris 2,892]

6 hours ago, Skuit said:

 

This is a drawing of a long bow.

More specifically it is a drawing of the drawing of a long bow.

[Akum 2,660]

Viney is certainly capable of kicking well - his goals in both JLT matches are a good example. He definitely doesn't lack the skill.

But while he's capable of hitting a leading forward on the chest from 30-40 metres, he's also capable of missing them by 10 metres.

To me, sometimes he just doesn't take enough care to get it right. When he's created some space for himself in congestion, he either hurries the kick or bombs it, without taking that fraction of a second to steady himself and kick it to advantage. So we often don't get value out of the clearances he wins. If he had Tyson's or Oliver's ability to find a teammate from a clearance, he'd be much more damaging.

With all this talk about KPIs, he should have a KPI for "taking care with disposal". But that'll never happen, of course.

[Skuit 9,169]

54 minutes ago, Chris said:

More specifically it is a drawing of the drawing of a long bow.

And this is me drawing out a point on a post of a drawing of a drawing of a long bow to draw attention to its original intent.

[poita 3,573]

His kicking against Carlton was really poor at times, particularly a couple of his shots at goal. He could never be considered elite until he fixes this up, which was one of the reasons I didn't want him to be captain this year. There is still plenty of work required to his game, without giving him additional pressures.

[Demon trucker 1,745]

There is also a myth that he is slow,  it's not true. 

[Demon Disciple 10,928]

Jack's never going to be an elite kick, but that's not an issue. So long as he continually improves on it, he will get better and better. Which can only be good for us, as he's already a very good player!

[DeeSpencer 23,124]

It's fair, but Danger and Fyfe are reasonable comparisons. In fact the majority of better ball winning midfielders in the comp are average kicks. There's only so many Pendlebury, Mitchell types around. 

As part of the game plan I'd like to see guys like Lewis and Jones push in to the back pockets/flanks to get those kicks but so often it's Viney running for it. I'd also be in favour of Viney playing a bit more at half forward this year to provide some pressure and round out his game. 

Decision making is really what I want Jack to excel in. If he misses a target or goal I can live with that, but there's times he bombs it long to a 1 on 3 or attempts an aggressive kick that isn't really on. As the team plays together more and gets more predictable the decision making can become easier but hopefully Jack is leading the way in that regard.

[Nasher 33,047]

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

It's fair, but Danger and Fyfe are reasonable comparisons. In fact the majority of better ball winning midfielders in the comp are average kicks. There's only so many Pendlebury, Mitchell types around. 

As part of the game plan I'd like to see guys like Lewis and Jones push in to the back pockets/flanks to get those kicks but so often it's Viney running for it. I'd also be in favour of Viney playing a bit more at half forward this year to provide some pressure and round out his game. 

Decision making is really what I want Jack to excel in. If he misses a target or goal I can live with that, but there's times he bombs it long to a 1 on 3 or attempts an aggressive kick that isn't really on. As the team plays together more and gets more predictable the decision making can become easier but hopefully Jack is leading the way in that regard.

I don't think the insinuation was "average" kick; the word used was "butcher".

I'd just scroll past any post that said as much. Anyone who used such black and white terms doesn't understand nuances and isn't going to engage in any sort of interesting discussion. 

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

VIney's goal kicking makes Hogan not look so lonely in that regard. Both strong and talented footballers who shyte themselves in front of goal.

[3Dee 1,153]

59 minutes ago, america de cali said:

VIney's goal kicking makes Hogan not look so lonely in that regard. Both strong and talented footballers who shyte themselves in front of goal.

Viney kicked 8.2 last year, that's 80% accuracy my friend.

Edited March 7, 2017 by 3Dee

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

8 minutes ago, 3Dee said:

Viney kicked 8.2 last year, that's 80% accuracy my friend.

How many did not make the distance from inside 50 or out of bounds?

Edited March 7, 2017 by america de cali

[Vitamin Dee 844]

Viney is an average kick, which is below average typically for a left footer. 

[In Harmes Way 7,492]

Tom Mac is also prone to missing the odd kick here or there, but you don't see anybody on this site make an example of him...

[nutbean 8,837]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

I don't think the insinuation was "average" kick; the word used was "butcher".

 

There are very few butchers left in the AFL as teams can't afford to carry them.

There are so few around that I now buy my meat from "an average kick".

[Gator 16,891]

I can live with the odd poorly weighted kick.  Without pressure he usually hits his target. 

I'd like to see him more composed under pressure.  The better mids, like Hannebery, make better decisions and have cleaner disposals in extreme heat. 

I'm sure he's working on it, but for me it's the aspect of his game he needs to work on most. 

[Akum 2,660]

3 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

There is also a myth that he is slow,  it's not true. 

Certainly wasn't slow when he chased & brought down Mav Weller.

[daisycutter 28,494]

viney can kick. his basics are fine. he doesn't have the most penetrating kick but his distance is ok

what he lacks is just consistency. he should have a kpi for kicking and the appropriate specialist coaching

you know it makes sense