I'm not a lawyer but so think it's quite simple:

1. Players were given substances in an off site clinic as part of a performance program.

2. They signed waivers which listed vague substances which could be interpreted as either harmless or harmful, which were cleared by football department whom the players relied upon (from duty of care perspective).

3. Players have documented record of soft tissue injuries consistent with unsafe variety of vague substances.

4. Club in effort to mitigate its and AFL culpability claim no records and that all substances given were safe, despite not being able to prove what they were.

Surely balance of probabilities would dictate that the substances given were harmful variety and if side effects linked to harmful substance variety include birth and child development issues identified it should be pretty much an open/shut case.

Am I missing something?

 

5 minutes ago, chookrat said:

I'm not a lawyer but so think it's quite simple:

1. Players were given substances in an off site clinic as part of a performance program.

2. They signed waivers which listed vague substances which could be interpreted as either harmless or harmful, which were cleared by football department whom the players relied upon (from duty of care perspective).

3. Players have documented record of soft tissue injuries consistent with unsafe variety of vague substances.

4. Club in effort to mitigate its and AFL culpability claim no records and that all substances given were safe, despite not being able to prove what they were.

Surely balance of probabilities would dictate that the substances given were harmful variety and if side effects linked to harmful substance variety include birth and child development issues identified it should be pretty much an open/shut case.

Am I missing something?

 

ok...

1. The waivers are probably no issue as there was a lack of "informed consent."

2. Not knowing what the substances were is not a major deterrent except it makes it harder to prove that the damage is caused by the substance

3. The damage itself can be an issue but let's assume you can show the "physical" damage and then monetise that damage.

4. Now comes the big one and that is showing on the balance of probabilities that the substance caused the damage. One can show that a class of drugs is more likely than not the cause of the damage and that would get you home. If however the damage can be caused by multiple events common in the community other than ingesting the class of substances it is far from certain that on the balance of probabilities the player has proved that the damage is caused by the substance.

Remember that while the defendant is in theory the club who may be sympathetic to the player and not argue liability etc, the person paying the money and who in practice gets to decide most things about how a case is run is the insurance company. I assume that LM's costs are at least to some extent covered by the AFLPA but because he could have costs awarded against him should he lose it is a major financial decision.

The moral is of course that EFC have got off lightly in that even if LM is wrong in his claim the worry that the club has caused to LM and other players and their wives is absolutely reprehensible and unforgivable.

6 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The moral is of course that EFC have got off lightly in that even if LM is wrong in his claim the worry that the club has caused to LM and other players and their wives is absolutely reprehensible and unforgivable.

They tried to cheat their way to a flag, but it is for the above reason that they deserve the eternal condemnation of the footy loving public.

On 2017-6-9 at 4:52 PM, jnrmac said:

Ys they can. A court can force him but ho-one has taken him to court. I wonder why?

Going to court would take action from a player or the club, neither probably want the real answer. The AFL and ASADA are powerless to get him to talk. 

What ever it takes !.

I can't believe that club or the AFL would sanction a james hird academy.

Maybe the drugs are just kickin in now ?

Looks like the feminist will be a good fit for their 2019 aflw team 

And don't start me on the dream of the daughter of the greatest blight on the game. Take a long walk too !

was thinking about the cheats last night - such is my hatred

it's really annoying me that they are close to playing finals, but I comforted myself with the following:

I reckon they would have won a flag or gone close in the last 5 years if not for this saga. and they blew it by cheating! add in Ryder, Hibberd, Carlisle and the early draft picks they lost. Add in Watson /goddard/stanton etc being in their prime and take away all the distraction and controvsery

hopefully now with Watson and Goddard being close to retirement, they will feel the loss of the draft picks and go back to the bottom 4 where they belong. Heppell is not a great leader imo and has had an average year

6 minutes ago, DubDee said:

was thinking about the cheats last night - such is my hatred

it's really annoying me that they are close to playing finals, but I comforted myself with the following:

I reckon they would have won a flag or gone close in the last 5 years if not for this saga. and they blew it by cheating! add in Ryder, Hibberd, Carlisle and the early draft picks they lost. Add in Watson /goddard/stanton etc being in their prime and take away all the distraction and controvsery

hopefully now with Watson and Goddard being close to retirement, they will feel the loss of the draft picks and go back to the bottom 4 where they belong. Heppell is not a great leader imo and has had an average year

Nothing about Essendrug gives me comfort. 

They are still to pay a REAL Price

I did a really bad fart that smelled better than this mob.  Why waste a moment thinking about them?  It is galling that they (the club, not the players) used every tactic to avoid responsibility.  Its even more galling that the AFL has never properly sanctioned the club because they are too pissweak and beholden to their favourites.  I hope they have the Jab Watson curse that lasts 100 years.

SEN (I know, I know) had a poll up last night and they started discussing it this am.

What would be the biggest Cinderella story Grand final win of the year? 

One of the 4 teams was ESS... give me a break.

On 10/06/2017 at 11:11 AM, chookrat said:

I'm not a lawyer but so think it's quite simple:

1. Players were given substances in an off site clinic as part of a performance program.

2. They signed waivers which listed vague substances which could be interpreted as either harmless or harmful, which were cleared by football department whom the players relied upon (from duty of care perspective).

3. Players have documented record of soft tissue injuries consistent with unsafe variety of vague substances.

4. Club in effort to mitigate its and AFL culpability claim no records and that all substances given were safe, despite not being able to prove what they were.

Surely balance of probabilities would dictate that the substances given were harmful variety and if side effects linked to harmful substance variety include birth and child development issues identified it should be pretty much an open/shut case.

Am I missing something?

 

Dangerous path, Chookrat.

We've had more soft tissue injuries in the last few weeks than most if not all other clubs. Should we conclude that those players have taken an "unsafe variety of vague substances"? That's the conclusion your point 3 leads to.

20 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Dangerous path, Chookrat.

We've had more soft tissue injuries in the last few weeks than most if not all other clubs. Should we conclude that those players have taken an "unsafe variety of vague substances"? That's the conclusion your point 3 leads to.

A salient point LDVC however I suspect if anyone were to approach the MFC  wrt to forensic evidence of what was taken and by whom I think we'd have ALL the appropriate paperwork.

v's NONE 

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

A salient point LDVC however I suspect if anyone were to approach the MFC  wrt to forensic evidence of what was taken and by whom I think we'd have ALL the appropriate paperwork.

v's NONE 

.... and a smoking shredder

Essendon prove why they have no paperwork.

3 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

I did a really bad fart that smelled better than this mob.  Why waste a moment thinking about them?  It is galling that they (the club, not the players) used every tactic to avoid responsibility.  Its even more galling that the AFL has never properly sanctioned the club because they are too pissweak and beholden to their favourites.  I hope they have the Jab Watson curse that lasts 100 years.

Cannot "Like this" enough.
While they were being supposedly punished they we're also permitted to collect top end draft pics.
A pox on them all.

 

28 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Essendon prove why they have no paperwork.

I bet they would blame someone else for putting the shredder in the wrong place too! Pick one of Dank, WADA, ASADA, the AFL, or simply that all the other clubs were doing it too.

6 hours ago, ManDee said:

Essendon prove why they have no paperwork.

"Every Picture Tell's a Story, don't it...."

All this talk about Bronwlow's got me thinking - Did Jobe ever find his Brownlow? Or has it been forgotten now as an issue about integrity?

22 minutes ago, Danelska said:

All this talk about Bronwlow's got me thinking - Did Jobe ever find his Brownlow? Or has it been forgotten now as an issue about integrity?

Its hanging on his grandparents mantle according to cousin Jeb Ross of StK, even tho Gil was adamant in was in his draw!  Of course we know Gil has mastered the arts of spin, red herrings and camouflage!!

See post below.

 

I would guarantee all would be revealed if we won the Flag.......

 So jobe has retired. 

Out of love with the game.

Reckons it feels like "his partner cheated on him"

2 minutes ago, biggestred said:

 So jobe has retired. 

Out of love with the game.

Reckons it feels like "his partner cheated on him"

Show us some paperwork Jab..

as Captain you were in on it all...

 

He'll always have Charlie !!...oops I mean...memories 

Annoyed about the timing -- we really need them to lose against Adelaide. Now they have an extra motivation to cause an upset. 

30 minutes ago, biggestred said:

 So jobe has retired. 

Out of love with the game.

Reckons it feels like "his partner cheated on him"

Not much credibility left other than with EFC supporters. A little like Lance it's not just what he did but the way he conducted himself post the scandal. Anyway like James he is escaping to a place where he can blend in with the crowd. 

16 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

Annoyed about the timing -- we really need them to lose against Adelaide. Now they have an extra motivation to cause an upset. 

Agree, now all the bummers fans will be out in force even more.  Just hope Adelaide come out and play there best.