POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 19

[old dee 23,256]

1 hour ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

I was in the lower section of the Northern stand and there was some problem with the sound, as I could hardly hear the song. Not that I was all that enthusiastic about singing it ...

Correct R and B it was almost illegiable , in fact I thought they were playing the wrong song to start.

it was only after it was almost finished that I realised they were playing our song.

Most Dees fans around me were standing in shock. The overwhelming emotion was relief that in contrast to a number games this year we had snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

 

[Binmans PA 26,766]

Just some food for thought.

In 2004, Hawthorn won 4 games and finished 15th with a percentage of 70.23.

In 2005, Hawthorn won 5 games and finished 14th with a percentage of 92.01.

In 2006, Hawthorn won 9 games and finished 11th with a percentage of 85.70.

In 2007, Hawthorn won 13 games and finished 5th with a percentage of 113.05.

In 2008, Hawthorn won 17 games and finished 2nd with a percentage of 131.85. They went on to pinch the flag and missed the finals altogether the following year.

My point? We're tracking at a relatively good pace. Obviously, the reason it's so frustrating for our supporters is that we've rebuilt 2 or 3 times since we last made it to the finals. 

I've said all season that we'll win 10-12 games. Obviously, we won't get 12, but I still think we'll get 10. Even if we don't, we'll get 8+ now, which is comparable with their 2006 season. But it looks like we'll have a stronger percentage than they had that year.

Natural improvement will come again next year as our young team gains more experience. Coupled with 1-2 important players that we acquire in FA/trading, hopefully they'll make us even better again.

So 11-13 wins next year should be the target and is likely if we continue on our current trajectory. That's a terrific foundation for Goody to build on in his second season, where we should be aiming for the top 4.

Of course, injuries can play a part (see the Bulldogs this year, who look like missing out on the top 4 now) and personnel changes, but Hawthorn's path shows some patience is required and that in fact, although it may be frustrating given what we've already been through, we are a real chance for some success starting 2017.

Edited July 31, 2016 by AdamFphlebeb

[Deevout 456]

3 hours ago, Diamond said:

Does anyone remember those years where we rocketed up the ladder one year only to fall to the bottom again the following year? What's happened to the sudden rise and fall?

Because the club managed to go into free fall and almost reached terminal velocity.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Deevout
Typo

[RalphiusMaximus 6,005]

1 hour ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Lol. Come on, RM. You think our game plan is centred around high bombs to the square? The disciplined kick when there are no options is to kick it to the top of the square though.

I do believe that the players have been told to do this.  I'm not sure how it could fit into any useful gameplan since it's a play that so clearly favours the defence, especially when it's done so regularly, but the evidence suggests that they have been coached to do it.  We have plenty of players knocking on the door at Casey, so surely if this wasn't something they are instructed to do the culprits would have been dropped by now?  Admittedly, I'm not sure they can drop the entire midfield, but half maybe? 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

5 hours ago, old dee said:

I agree with you AF.

If that was the plan we sure spent a lot of time fiddling about across the half forward line.

It seemed like everyone want to go sideways. Seldom did we take the direct options.

Especially when there is no one in the square to kick it to.

[Farmer 706]

13 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

You're joking, right? 

No, he is absolutely correct. If you couldn't see it, you were not there

[Farmer 706]

10 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Because he's gone.

What bloody Rubbish. Both this and the suggestion that he doesn't lead any more are equally stupid.

in the first quarter Hogan was up the ground trying to lift the team.. In the second he took a mark but collided with a post and was pretty much hobbling thereafter. But he subsequently lead to CHF, marked, and missed a shot from 50m.

in the second half he shouldn't have been on the ground, though he did take a mark and miss a relatively easy shot in Q3. Get off his back, for heavens' sake

[Farmer 706]

5 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I do believe that the players have been told to do this.  I'm not sure how it could fit into any useful gameplan since it's a play that so clearly favours the defence, especially when it's done so regularly, but the evidence suggests that they have been coached to do it.  We have plenty of players knocking on the door at Casey, so surely if this wasn't something they are instructed to do the culprits would have been dropped by now?  Admittedly, I'm not sure they can drop the entire midfield, but half maybe? 

I don't know if this had been mentioned earlier, but there is an odd feature about this match.. We kicked 9 goals, 8 from marks, one from VDB with a 50m kick just before half time.

Our crumbing   was non existent. Our forward line is , or at least,  plays tall. It is vital that we have guys who can clean up after spillages. Today, we had nothing. Garlett depends on one touch gathering of the ball. If he fumbles, he is no good. Kent kicked a goal from a mark but otherwise did little near the goals. Ditto Petracca

The ground looked very good but was more slippery than apparent. Players were forever falling over and there were constant fumbles, largely by MFC. Garlett's ball handling was poor.

The contrast between this match and many earlier games was that in earlier games Garlett, Kennedy, Kent would have been multiple goal kickers. At present we are horribly reliant upon Garlett. If he is off, so are we. He was trying hard enough but just couldn't perform. Not certain where he fits in, but we need the pace and goal nous of Kennedy

 

[Coq au vin 754]

7 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I accept nothing of what you suggest. You seem desperate that I do to support your view.Do you dareput anything in context ? I doubt it.

You want so much that we're doing something right it's embarrassing. 

We do probably 70℅ right and30℅ [censored] up

Is that progress.We can't beat anyone of mention and some like yourself trumpet 'fall over wins'against nobody's.

You wish to vault little abilities whilst ignoring that huge Elephant in the room...that we're rubbish ! Good for you.

I ,live in the real world

Tight botty loves to nit pick and attack other posters.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,862]

1 hour ago, Farmer said:

What bloody Rubbish. Both this and the suggestion that he doesn't lead any more are equally stupid.

in the first quarter Hogan was up the ground trying to lift the team.. In the second he took a mark but collided with a post and was pretty much hobbling thereafter. But he subsequently lead to CHF, marked, and missed a shot from 50m.

in the second half he shouldn't have been on the ground, though he did take a mark and miss a relatively easy shot in Q3. Get off his back, for heavens' sake

Hard to detect my sarcasm in a post. 

I've been a staunch supporter on saying Hogan will stay.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Ethan Tremblay

[Undeeterred 2,908]

4 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Hard to detect my sarcasm in a post. 

I got it....

[Undeeterred 2,908]

7 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Just some food for thought.

In 2004, Hawthorn won 4 games and finished 15th with a percentage of 70.23.

In 2005, Hawthorn won 5 games and finished 14th with a percentage of 92.01.

In 2006, Hawthorn won 9 games and finished 11th with a percentage of 85.70.

In 2007, Hawthorn won 13 games and finished 5th with a percentage of 113.05.

In 2008, Hawthorn won 17 games and finished 2nd with a percentage of 131.85. They went on to pinch the flag and missed the finals altogether the following year.

My point? We're tracking at a relatively good pace. Obviously, the reason it's so frustrating for our supporters is that we've rebuilt 2 or 3 times since we last made it to the finals. 

I've said all season that we'll win 10-12 games. Obviously, we won't get 12, but I still think we'll get 10. Even if we don't, we'll get 8+ now, which is comparable with their 2006 season. But it looks like we'll have a stronger percentage than they had that year.

Natural improvement will come again next year as our young team gains more experience. Coupled with 1-2 important players that we acquire in FA/trading, hopefully they'll make us even better again.

So 11-13 wins next year should be the target and is likely if we continue on our current trajectory. That's a terrific foundation for Goody to build on in his second season, where we should be aiming for the top 4.

Of course, injuries can play a part (see the Bulldogs this year, who look like missing out on the top 4 now) and personnel changes, but Hawthorn's path shows some patience is required and that in fact, although it may be frustrating given what we've already been through, we are a real chance for some success starting 2017.

Sure, but the great unknown for us is Goodwin taking over.

[pitmaster 3,162]

Some perspective on that awful performance yesterday (since I was too flat last night to comment):

1: Watts played the most decisive game of his career.

2: We won without the usual suspects - N Jones, J Viney, B Vince - leading the way.

3: Oscar Mac looked like a footballer.

4: Petracca and Stretch gave us some exciting glimpses of their abilities.

5: We won when we could easily have lost as opposed to one week earlier when we lost...blah blah blah.

Against all that the most disappointing thing was that after Watts took a match saving mark with 58 seconds to go we still failed to close it out.

Expecting a much improved effort against Hawthorn.

[John Crow Batty 8,377]

8 hours ago, Ricky P said:

We've beaten every team below us except Essendon and Carlton (who we haven't played yet). We've only beaten one team above us.

Where do think we would be if we beat sides like St Kilda And Port?

[Ted Lasso 17,318]

On 8/1/2016 at 7:11 AM, Undeeterred said:

Sure, but the great unknown for us is Goodwin taking over.

I'm not sure it is that great an unknown to be honest, i mean he's been there for two years, no doubt pulling strings, we're playing his game style and leaving out Garlo and Dunn to play kids. 

I think it'll be very seamless 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,846]

15 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

We should have been having a shot at goal to go 8 points up with 1:38 left

But once again the MAGGOTS have failed to do their job and failed to pay the most basic decision ever. [censored] clowns.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-07-31/watch-the-last-two-minutes-melb-v-gc

What an absolute farce - how can they possibly justify letting that holding the ball decision go? It was as blatant as you will ever see and could have impacted the result.

[Pates 9,562]

6 minutes ago, Abe said:

I'm not sure it is that great an unknown to be honest, i mean he's been there for two years, no doubt pulling strings, we're playing his game style and leaving out Garlo and Dunn to play kids. 

I think it'll be very seamless 

Hoping it'll be better than seamless. I sort of wonder sometimes if Roos is our get out of jail free card. Largely his tenure at Melbourne has been without controversy or discussion. I wonder at times if it gives players a bit of an out. 

This will be Goodwins team next year and I really hope the boys are able to play for him the same way the Hawks boys play for Clarkson. 

Its unkown but honestly I'm intrigued and excited. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 hours ago, Farmer said:

No, he is absolutely correct. If you couldn't see it, you were not there

His response to titan calling him out as a hypocrite was hilarious.  His attempt to cover his tracks made him look silly.  

[Ted Lasso 17,318]

On 8/1/2016 at 8:13 AM, Pates said:

Hoping it'll be better than seamless. I sort of wonder sometimes if Roos is our get out of jail free card. Largely his tenure at Melbourne has been without controversy or discussion. I wonder at times if it gives players a bit of an out. 

This will be Goodwins team next year and I really hope the boys are able to play for him the same way the Hawks boys play for Clarkson. 

Its unkown but honestly I'm intrigued and excited. 

I think that's absolutely why we chased him, because we knew we could back him in for three years, even if it looked ugly we'd have a platform to build from when he left, 

It's why i find it interesting the comparision to the Saints, it's like comparing the Lions to say the Tigers, the Saints had a lot of finals performers, we had nothing, basically no culture, no leadership, no talent coming through, 2 wins at 58% possibly the worst side of all time. 

withing three years to be looking at between 8-10 wins and one of the best young lists in the game is an amazing turn around, and to be honest, i think we're ahead of what our win-loss suggests, we have dropped multiple games we should have won.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Edit - quoted the wrong person, stuffed up my post.  Couldn't save it...

[Dr. Gonzo 22,846]

14 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Is that the attitude that saw him running up and down the ground to get to position before his injury?

He was working so hard up and down the ground to the point where he was absolutely buggered and kicks were going over his head, at his feet, 5 metres sideways, to a pack - basically anywhere except out in front of his face. I would've been furious with the delivery and stuffing around with the ball if I were him.

[Ricky P 757]

49 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Where do think we would be if we beat sides like St Kilda And Port?

Not sure what your point is.

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

32 minutes ago, Abe said:

I'm not sure it is that great an unknown to be honest, i mean he's been there for two years, no doubt pulling strings, we're playing his game style and leaving out Garlo and Dunn to play kids. 

I think it'll be very seamless 

It may be seamless but can he actually coach?  Of course, we won't know for another 6-12 months. 

He has the best base possible for a 1st year coach: stable supportive club, mountains of talent, a well balanced team, a lot of his 'own picks' on the coaching staff, a seamless handover and a team poised to make a tilt for the top 8. 

Sorry to sound like a 'doubting Thomas' but I will wait till he has runs on the board before I jump on his bandwagon.  I hope for our sakes he shapes up.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,846]

14 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

A lot of the discussion in the stands today that I heard was that he's overrated and that Lynch is clearly the better player. What I'd say to this is that his attitude, work-rate and goal kicking action need a lot of work, but his ceiling is a whole lot higher than Lynch's and Jesse still remains a once in a generation prospect. 

Of all the things to criticise, his work-rate is not one. He works his arse off up and down the ground all day and then has to put up with rubbish delivery when he makes position in the forward 50.

[Farmer 706]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Hard to detect my sarcasm in a post. 

I've been a staunch supporter on saying Hogan will stay.

Good man. Sorry!