Final Quarter Fadeouts

[spirit of norm smith 16,292]

5 minutes into the last quarter vs Saints... MFC Twitter "Gawn goals and its a 5 point ballgame. We are set for a beauty".  No. Demons lose by 36 points.

Against the Power, Hawks, Swans, Saints we have faded in the last quarter to get beaten or against the Swans a thrashing.  We need to keep fighting to the end. Is it fitness or spirit??

[monoccular 17,413]

Good question.

 

[John Crow Batty 8,861]

6 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

5 minutes into the last quarter vs Saints... MFC Twitter "Gawn goals and its a 5 point ballgame. We are set for a beauty".  No. Demons lose by 36 points.

Against the Power, Hawks, Swans, Saints we have faded in the last quarter to get beaten or against the Swans a thrashing.  We need to keep fighting to the end. Is it fitness or spirit??

In all of these games we started very strongly until the opposition apply pressure.  Then the opposition loosen up a little after they have taken control and we fight back. As soon as they tighten up its game over. We can't handle pressure. That is a fact.

Edited July 18, 2016 by america de cali

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, america de cali said:

In all of these games we started very strongly until the opposition apply pressure.  Then the opposition loosen up a little after they have taken control and we fight back. As soon as they tighten up its game over. We can't handle pressure. That is a fact.

So any time we get back in to a game of footy it's not because we play well, but because the opposition 'loosen up a little?'  You're talking out of your back pocket.  I love these supporters who give the club and the players zero credit for anything.  It's always because of what the opposition did.  When we win it's because the other team didn't play well, but when we lose it's our fault.

[jackaub 1,402]

Mentally weak and worst leadership on display of all the teams

Quite pathetic really.

I would have thought that Roos would have been able to address this over 3 years

Either it is so deeply ingrained that it is impossible

or he lacks the ability to achieve it or even improve it

I am not sure Yoga or pre-game mental imaging is helping much maybe go back to a more traditional approach

I am getting very tired of [censored] and wind post game analysis from this coaching group and also facing derision every week from other teams supporters who can easily see what many of us cannot. The team is weak!

[John Crow Batty 8,861]

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

So any time we get back in to a game of footy it's not because we play well, but because the opposition 'loosen up a little?'  You're talking out of your back pocket.  I love these supporters who give the club and the players zero credit for anything.  It's always because of what the opposition did.  When we win it's because the other team didn't play well, but when we lose it's our fault.

That's right. Now you get the picture.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

Youth.

[Little Richard 6,262]

8 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Youth.

Spot on. Youth often means fadeouts, loss of concentration and inconsistency. Bloody frustrating but understandable.

Something that has really stuck with me was what Nathan Jones said last year about the importance of the youngsters understanding momentum shifts and how critical that becomes at crucial parts of a game. Pity he wasn't able to effect any kind of fight back either on Sunday.

[Chris 2,892]

16 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Mentally weak and worst leadership on display of all the teams

Quite pathetic really.

I would have thought that Roos would have been able to address this over 3 years

Either it is so deeply ingrained that it is impossible

or he lacks the ability to achieve it or even improve it

I am not sure Yoga or pre-game mental imaging is helping much maybe go back to a more traditional approach

I am getting very tired of [censored] and wind post game analysis from this coaching group and also facing derision every week from other teams supporters who can easily see what many of us cannot. The team is weak!

Yoga and Pilates are both of core strength and body balance, they do have a meditative aspect to them but that is not the primary function. Visualizations are also not some new fandangled approach, it has been around for 20+ years in various elite sports, go back and look at Marion Jones line up on the blocks years ago, that stare she had was all about visualizations. It may well be that it is fairly new to the AFL but the AFL is barely an elite sport in many ways. 

[jackaub 1,402]

2 minutes ago, Django said:

Spot on. Youth often means fadeouts, loss of concentration and inconsistency. Bloody frustrating but understandable.

Something that has really stuck with me was what Nathan Jones said last year about the importance of the youngsters understanding momentum shifts and how critical that becomes at crucial parts of a game. Pity he wasn't able to effect any kind of fight back either on Sunday.

Yes unfortunately he is a hard,hard worker and when necessary works harder.

but he is IMO a very poor leader His only response to pressure is to work harder not smarter

Great servant of the club and I love his endeavour but? Compare the way Bull dogs( Another young team)play hard fast smart and skilled. We are not showing much of this at the moment

[Little Goffy 14,462]

I could understand, maybe even accept the unhappy reality, of final quarter fade0outs from a young and nervous team with a legacy of 'impending doom' hanging over it.

The part that really gets me irritated is the mid-game implosions. How many 5+ goal runs against us this season? Aaaargh.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, america de cali said:

That's right. Now you get the picture.

Get the picture?  Wouldn't have thought so.  As I said, you're talking out of your back pocket.  We've had some fade outs over the last few weeks, but you give zero credit at all to our side, which is wrong.

[jackaub 1,402]

6 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yoga and Pilates are both of core strength and body balance, they do have a meditative aspect to them but that is not the primary function. Visualizations are also not some new fandangled approach, it has been around for 20+ years in various elite sports, go back and look at Marion Jones line up on the blocks years ago, that stare she had was all about visualizations. It may well be that it is fairly new to the AFL but the AFL is barely an elite sport in many ways. 

Well Chris what ever they are doing it is not working You must agree! I am hopeful the new coach will have some other approach that may work. But the central tenant of my argument is that the team collectively is weak and when pressure is applied they lose all focus and structure. I can understand the remaining 186 guys may have some scars but we are now teaching this toxic mental approach to our youngest and brightest who are the future of the club

[Chris 2,892]

11 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Well Chris what ever they are doing it is not working You must agree! I am hopeful the new coach will have some other approach that may work. But the central tenant of my argument is that the team collectively is weak and when pressure is applied they lose all focus and structure. I can understand the remaining 186 guys may have some scars but we are now teaching this toxic mental approach to our youngest and brightest who are the future of the club

I agree but I don't think Yoga and visualizations are to blame. It is either a mental thing or an experience thing and I think it is a mix of both across the group. The trick may be to work out which it is for each player and give them the tool to work through it, be it better pressure at training or more access to a sports psychologist to work the the demons in their heads. The weird thing is that we can apply great pressure to oppositions and when we do we can withstand it in return but then there are games where we fall apart completely. 

[Adam The God 30,129]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

5 minutes into the last quarter vs Saints... MFC Twitter "Gawn goals and its a 5 point ballgame. We are set for a beauty".  No. Demons lose by 36 points.

Against the Power, Hawks, Swans, Saints we have faded in the last quarter to get beaten or against the Swans a thrashing.  We need to keep fighting to the end. Is it fitness or spirit??

We kicked our last goal against Freo at the top of the last too. I've watched "All the goals" on the MFC website most weeks and I've lost count of how many times we either don't score a goal in the last quarter or we score one.

I think it probably comes down to a lack of leadership, concentration and inexperience. We still don't know how to bury a team.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

36 minutes ago, Django said:

Spot on. Youth often means fadeouts, loss of concentration and inconsistency. Bloody frustrating but understandable.

Something that has really stuck with me was what Nathan Jones said last year about the importance of the youngsters understanding momentum shifts and how critical that becomes at crucial parts of a game. Pity he wasn't able to effect any kind of fight back either on Sunday.

Yep. I think the key issues really surround fitness, concentration, and ability to understand the flow of the game and respond to it.

For example, I think when St Kilda really ramped up the pressure on Sunday, we accelerated our tempo as well and it cost us both in the immediate term when we turned the ball over repeatedly, and later in the game when we were exhausted.

We don't have leaders who can impose themselves on the contest to either slow it down and draw the heat out of the game, or break open that up tempo pressure when it is brought against us.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

The other team wanting it more when the game's on the line

[titan_uranus 24,975]

Stats say we have won 9 out of our 16 4th quarters this year. That's more than half. It also has us ranked 6th in the competition, equal with Port, West Coast and the Dogs and in front of North and every other bottom 10 side.

So I put this thread down to the all-too-common recency effect. It happened against St Kilda, therefore it happens all the time. Just plain wrong.

[Demon_JB 1,376]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Stats say we have won 9 out of our 16 4th quarters this year. That's more than half. It also has us ranked 6th in the competition, equal with Port, West Coast and the Dogs and in front of North and every other bottom 10 side.

So I put this thread down to the all-too-common recency effect. It happened against St Kilda, therefore it happens all the time. Just plain wrong.

It would be interesting to see those last quarters that we've lost who we played against the previous round and where. I still think the trip up to the NT played a massive toll in us running out of legs.

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

LEADERSHIP. 

[jumbo returns 6,739]

Slow.

Quite a few players lack elite fitness levels.

Still have players who won't commit to running hard both ways.

Skills.

[old dee 23,781]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

Slow.

Quite a few players lack elite fitness levels.

Still have players who won't commit to running hard both ways.

Skills.

Yep, still not enough to win against decent opposition.

[jnrmac 20,055]

http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=13

Quarters won...seems about right...

[old dee 23,781]

My father used to say that determination will only take you so far and in the end superior skill will come through.

I think he was right way back then and it still holds true.

Right now that is the problem for the MFC we don't have the overall skill to beat teams in the top half of the competition.

[Chris 2,892]

11 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=13

Quarters won...seems about right...

From having a quick glance through there were a couple of final quarters we lost by very small margins as well, like the dogs game where it was 1 point. It also seems it is the third quarter that is the issue, we seem to come out after half time asleep, as clearly evident against the crows. Is it coaching or leadership?