POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 17

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Stu, I don't mean to sound condescending but that is such shallow and simplistic explanation of what happened.

It's the kind of thing somebody who doesn't really know what else to say, will say.

You say that we couldn't keep up with them after quarter time. 

Here's why we lost:

Yet again, the inconsistency in decision making and skill execution from so so many of our players today after 1/4 time was it. 

It is nothing more than our ability to make the same errors consistently that cost us the game. 

That is it Stu. Nothing to do with not having fresh legs.

We are simply a team who have players who at the top of their game are really valuable, but too many times we see them having down games and games in which their skill execution and decision making is way below what it needs to be.

Have you played sport before? Any sport? Ever noticed how your skill and decision making and execution goes down as you get tired?

Put 2 and 2 together.

 

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

The big issue I had here was that they did exactly the same thing to us as last time.  Did the coaches do any analysis last time?  Did they by any chance look into why the Saints were able to get so many free players taking uncontested marks inside their forward 50?  Could the possibly have deduced that the usual structures we use play directly into the hands of  a hard spreading St Kilda outfit and that just possibly they might need to swallow their pride and make some adjustments? 

Yes, most of our players were poor, but they were thrown to the lions by our coaches today. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,444]

We lack quality Leadership

When have our "Leaders" grabbed a game by the balls and said "We are not going to lose this" in the back end of the season when the stakes are high??

it doesn't happen 

N Jones could not afford to have a shocker today. As Captain he has nowhere to hide. 

He fails to do the job too often against good oponents...

He wasn't alone but he isn't Captain material if we are going to rise. 

Goodwin has a long summer ahead

If he can't get some real talent into this side soon he will be crucified next season....

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

16 minutes ago, Blue-and-red said:

Our ability to over use handball and particularly to handball to another player in a worst position is unsurpassed!

We overuse the ball becuase we seldom have options ahead of the ball to kick to because too many players get sucked into the contest.

When you watch Sydney and Hawthorn they always have time and space becuase they use all of the ground and and don't get too congested.

[picket fence 15,150]

I disagree he is not slow but he aint quick! I am totally bemused? Outside speed killed us last time vs the Aints , plus our very dubious "Zone" bulltish! so what do we do ?? Drop a bloke ( Stretch) who has been playing well who HAS speed and bring in an underdone Angus. 

If you wanted another mid then surely Clarrie Chho Choo would have been ahead in selection stakes.

I said this days ago, a lot pooh pood my rationale as usual but again I was right! Crap selection by Crap selectors who think they know , but really don't about picking "Horses For Courses" teams We are so sloooooooowwwww 

A bevy of selectors from Demonland would breathe more life and vibrancy not too mention a touch of dare into selection practices!

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

To be fair, I rarely have a discussion like this with Stu.  Plus we're not getting personal, it's just part of the discussion about the game.  If we lost it at selection, which he says we did, I'm only asking him what we should have done differently.

Look, I'm no trying to evade, but I know how this discussion goes.

I'll give you one extreme example so you get what I mean.

Is ANB a better player than Vince? No way. But in the context of today's game, Vince's injury, the tiredness of the team, the ground and the opposition he would have been a better contributor to the team dynamic.

Now I'll wait for the, "Oh but Vince is better than ANB?! Are you serious?! Rah rah..."

[Deemented Are Go! 3,602]

5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

To be fair, I rarely have a discussion like this with Stu.  Plus we're not getting personal, it's just part of the discussion about the game.  If we lost it at selection, which he says we did, I'm only asking him what we should have done differently.

Yeah fair enough. It's just usually stuie v someone!

[Akum 2,660]

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Many of us warned that the Essendon game was a danger game but the coaching staff were clueless.We forecast a problem with the Saints at Etihad in round 6 and could not have played a worse game. 18 uncontested marks inside 50 to the Saints. What did the caoching staff do? NADA. 

Today was a carbon copy. WTF are our coachig staff doing? We all knew what the Saints would do. Exactly what they did in Rd 6. And we were right again. Yet we played dumb dumb football threw too many at the contest let them flip it outside and run it down the outer side. Deja vous all over again

Yet again Tom Mac has spectacular brainfades when the ball comes or when he takes a sound grab and tries to play on. Yet again a spud like Membrey has a day out on us.

Yet again Montagna, Reiwoldt and Steven have a day out on us.

Yet again Oscar Mac is bustled off the ball 10 time in a game. I don't get what he adds to to the team at this point but we can't keep taking so many inexperienced players into the backline each week It's soul destroying.

MIdfielders going missing; Tyson and Vandenburg. VB is due a spell at Casey. Has done nothing since his return.

Gawn getting jumped into by Hickey at every stoppage. Garlett and Kent go missing again in a loss.

The chopping the arms rule has been thrown out.

I am over making the same mistakes week after week.

 

 

How many times can I "like" this?

[waynewussell 4,091]

Given that Spencer was one of Casey's best (v Minson), and given our current Etihad strategy fails miserably, I wonder if it is time to go with the second ruckman and give the shootout away!

[Moonshadow 16,173]

And here I was thinking we lost the game today. Silly me. Of course..... we lost it on Thurs night. Duh!

[CBDees 3,162]

36 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

It's interesting - we look better with three tall forwards, but Dawes is a non-entity as that third tall.

 

It's a conundrum!

Dawes was in the coaches box today!

[Binmans PA 26,053]

19 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Its proving how badly we are missing Salem's class and skill off half back..

I reckon we lack dash off half back. Our kicking isn't as bad as it was in the first half of the season, but it's our ball movement being stagnated that means we struggle. Hunt has become so important for this game style already. If Frost plays today, he provides us more drive when Hunt gets shut out of the game. We need more of it. Hopefully Melksham as well next year.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, stuie said:

Look, I'm no trying to evade, but I know how this discussion goes.

I'll give you one extreme example so you get what I mean.

Is ANB a better player than Vince? No way. But in the context of today's game, Vince's injury, the tiredness of the team, the ground and the opposition he would have been a better contributor to the team dynamic.

Now I'll wait for the, "Oh but Vince is better than ANB?! Are you serious?! Rah rah..."

If Vince had a shocker today, I'd agree.  I really would.  But he didn't.  He still had 34 touches and did some good things.  If he was tired, or found it difficult to cover the ground, he wouldn't have had that sort if impact.  That's why I find it so hard to buy.

Some of younger players were down, but I can't see ANB, Newton etc. making any difference.  I just think that, in the context of the game, we lost it in terms of gameplan.  It had nothing to do with selection.  As Ralphius said above, the players were let down by the coaching group this week.

[Return to Glory 7,727]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

I disagree he is not slow but he aint quick! I am totally bemused? Outside speed killed us last time vs the Aints , plus our very dubious "Zone" bulltish! so what do we do ?? Drop a bloke ( Stretch) who has been playing well who HAS speed and bring in an underdone Angus. 

If you wanted another mid then surely Clarrie Chho Choo would have been ahead in selection stakes.

I said this days ago, a lot pooh pood my rationale as usual but again I was right! Crap selection by Crap selectors who think they know , but really don't about picking "Horses For Courses" teams We are so sloooooooowwwww 

A bevy of selectors from Demonland would breathe more life and vibrancy not too mention a touch of dare into selection practices!

Stretch omitted for less speed was odd.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

If Vince had a shocker today, I'd agree.  I really would.  But he didn't.

He actually kicked the ball as a first option, for that he was one of our best.

[hemingway 7,589]

Post Darwin, Etihad and St Kilda, says it all. Until we win these games and are able to win consistently and consecutively we cannot claim to have turned the corner. And other clubs and the media will not take us seriously.  Incredibly disappointing. The team needs its head read. 

[waynewussell 4,091]

I wouldn't be dropping Brayshaw, I would find a way to add Oliver and I would get Stretch back ASAP

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, waynewussell said:

I wouldn't be dropping Brayshaw, I would find a way to add Oliver and I would get Stretch back ASAP

Brayshaw, a few clangers aside, was pretty good.  Had the second most contested possessions behind Viney and was good around the stoppages.  Clearly he was a few steps off the pace having been out for so long, but he will get better.

And I agree.  It might be time to get Oliver back in the side.

[thesleepinggiant 160]

If u look at all the loses this year, im certain that were winning the contested ball, racking up disposal counts that could win games but we(players only) are own worst enemy. The amount of goals from turnovers or doing hard yards to win something simple.

Its basic skill errors that cost matches and i believe we need 2 GOOD BALL USERS in defence and a ready made AGRADER running through the middle however by 2017 we might just have 1 or 2 off our own really step up in Viney and Petracca .

I honestly thought #5 was about to scruff the game early. Exceptionally strong and would love to see him play FF. Good game today, cant wait till gets 50+ games. Will be a guaranteed rock star!

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Have you played sport before? Any sport? Ever noticed how your skill and decision making and execution goes down as you get tired?

Put 2 and 2 together.

 

Haha.

You're ridiculous. This is my last post to you.

The evidence is everywhere Stu.

Do you really believe 'fresh legs' are the reason Hawthorn are able to win no matter where they play, no matter how many days break? Or Sydney or Geelong when they were winning game after game?

Freo nearly beat Geelong and they played on FRIDAY NIGHT STU and made two changes. Honestly, there is zero evidence to support what you're saying for our match today and unless Paul Roos comes out and says, 'we lost because we played in tough conditions last week and the players were out of legs' then I'd just take a seat if I were you on this one.

 

[dl4e 5,583]

An entirely predictable result. Why is anyone surprised ?

[stuie 7,374]

5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

If Vince had a shocker today, I'd agree.  I really would.  But he didn't.  He still had 34 touches and did some good things.  If he was tired, or found it difficult to cover the ground, he wouldn't have had that sort if impact.  That's why I find it so hard to buy.

Some of younger players were down, but I can't see ANB, Newton etc. making any difference.  I just think that, in the context of the game, we lost it in terms of gameplan.  It had nothing to do with selection.  As Ralphius said above, the players were let down by the coaching group this week.

We were outrun. That second quarter when we hit the wall and before they tired the usual amount from a game was when they killed us. We were nowhere near them. Vince couldn't kick (notice Harmes taking kick ins?), couldn't stop or change direction properly, and clearly had a poor game no matter what the disposal count says.

You've answered exactly how I expected, you're talking about the players now where that's not my point at all. Clearly those players who weren't selected aren't our "best" players, but they would have contributed a lot more, especially in that 2nd quarter run, than the tired players we had out there, and then who knows?

[bing181 8,165]

34 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

 If we don't go out there with the right mindset and we haven't planned for a side correctly then it doesn't matter what cattle you have on the park - you'll lose. 

Or even just if you don't have the right mindset ... after that, nothing else really matters, including the planning.

[chook fowler 18,228]

23 minutes ago, stuie said:

Missing the point.

It's not about talent it's about being able to run out the game.

See ANB's game by the way?

He would be the only one and maybe Spence

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We just don't seem to learn from either our wins or losses and we aren't actually improving as a team despite a tiny injury list.

That's what hurts the most, for the first time this year I truly cannot see us playing finals for a very long time.