POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 17

[chook fowler 18,326]

10 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I can't believe I missed this one, I was too busy putting on my veil of negativity.

Have been a great Roos fan but that comment has lost me. Complete turn around from what he was saying during the week. Probably embarrassed by the performance, as he should be.

[Binmans PA 26,264]

32 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I would like to see Harmes playing forward again, too.  We can all see his is as hard as a cat's head, as they say, but he's too cruddy a user of the ball to be used as an attacking half back flanker.  He did his best damage as a forward who tackled, marked and hit the scoreboard.

Increase the responsibilities of the youngsters in the middle - Brayshaw, vandenBerg, bring Oliver back etc, recall Stretch, and use he and Vince as those midfielders receiving on half back.  Push Harmes back to half forward and Kennedy to Casey.

Whilst I agree that Harmes is a poor user of the ball, I reckon they'll keep playing him back there for the rest of the season. We need to know if he has multiple strings to his bow. If he develops them he has a chance of making best 22. If he becomes just a forward, he becomes one of many and nothing more than a fringer in the years to come.

Kennedy should have been at Casey already. He's had a worryingly ordinary 2/3s of the season. First third he was terrific, but he's offered little for quite some time now.

Agree with getting the young guys into the middle now. Stretch was very unlucky to be left out today. I've been really impressed with his development this season. His speed and ball user, as well as decent decision making has stood out. 

I don't rate VDB, so I'd be dropping him too, but there's not really anyone to replace him with. He gets a reprieve, but not Kennedy.

[Return to Glory 7,744]

12 minutes ago, Biffen said:

kick in specialist.

I like it.

he can just hang in the diamond until they have a shot at goal.

Ah yes, the diamond defence. Absolutely impregnable.

[hemingway 7,597]

14 minutes ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Oh, I disagree. Thought he was far too cute and ran himself or team mates into trouble during a number of critical stanzas in the game.

I swear you're my old man posting, Ernest. I share your frustration, but we've definitely improved. I'd argue we've turned a corner, but I think there are more corners to turn.

I actually agree with your assessment Ad. Our improvement is also the cause of our increased expectation and disappointment when we lose. By the way, I do have a son called Adam.

[olisik 4,060]

Poor form closing the thread on N Jones. Legitimate discussion with valid arguments on both sides. 

Apparently cant have an opinion on DL these days.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, olisik said:

Poor form closing the thread on N Jones. Legitimate discussion with valid arguments on both sides. 

Apparently cant have an opinion on DL these days.

Legit discussion?  Rubbish.  That thread got what it deserved.

[olisik 4,060]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Legit discussion?  Rubbish.  That thread got what it deserved.

Captain consistently going missing in tight games? Honestly I feel we have better options of leadership then N Jones. 

[Binmans PA 26,264]

16 minutes ago, hemingway said:

I actually agree with your assessment Ad. Our improvement is also the cause of our increased expectation and disappointment when we lose. By the way, I do have a son called Adam.

Haha. Hi Dad.

And agree about the increased expectation equalling disappointment when we don't deliver. Still convinced we'll win our 10 games for this season.

Edited July 17, 2016 by AdamFphlebeb

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, olisik said:

Captain consistently going missing in tight games? Honestly I feel we have better options of leadership then N Jones. 

Consistently?

[Binmans PA 26,264]

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Consistently?

I'd argue he consistently goes missing in big games too. Usually against better opposition, but today was a big game in the context of our remaining season and he failed to deliver.

I love his loyalty, he's tried his guts out for us with little help for years and I think at times (like Grimes) some supporters won't hear any negativity directed towards him.

Edited July 17, 2016 by AdamFphlebeb

[Lucifers Hero 37,174]

Amongst all the hand wringing and wrist slashing might I just mention how great it was that Watts went up and consoled Gus after his blooper just before 3/4 time.  Then McCartney went out of his way to wrap his arm around him at 3/4 time.  A few seconds later Bernie did similar.  Implied message to young players: mistakes happen, don't worry, move on to the next contest and just play your role.

Gus was filthy with himself and almost inconsolable but it must be reassuring for him to get that support. 

Respect earning leadership by Watts and Vince.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, AdamFphlebeb said:

I'd argue he consistently goes missing in big games too. Usually against better opposition, but today was a big game in the context of our remaining season.

Show me the proof and I'll agree.

I guarantee you won't find much.

[John Crow Batty 8,266]

26 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Great way to start the working week. 

Well done Melboune yet again u have ruined another weekend and made another start to the week so pleasurable!!!

At least the late Sunday arvo starts gives us the opportunity to  have a mostly decent weekend beforehand. Imagine how miserable it would be if we had a lot of Friday games.  

Edited July 17, 2016 by america de cali

[Binmans PA 26,264]

12 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Amongst all the hand wringing and wrist slashing might I just mention how great it was that Watts went up and consoled Gus after his blooper just before 3/4 time.  Then McCartney went out of his way to wrap his arm around him at 3/4 time.  A few seconds later Bernie did similar.  Implied message to young players: mistakes happen, don't worry, move on to the next contest and just play your role.

Gus was filthy with himself and almost inconsolable but it must be reassuring for him to get that support. 

Respect earning leadership by Watts and Vince.

Good spot, LH. I missed this, but that's great to hear.

[DemonOX 8,541]

Just now, america de cali said:

At least the late Sunday arvo starts gives us the opportunity to  have a mostly decent weekend beforehand. Imagine how miserable it would be if we has a lot of Friday games.  

Too true America. 

Geez I wonder what the feeling is like when u win consistently!!

Not sure we as Dee's supporters will ever find out either!

[olisik 4,060]

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Amongst all the hand wringing and wrist slashing might I just mention how great it was that Watts went up and consoled Gus after his blooper just before 3/4 time.  Then McCartney went out of his way to wrap his arm around him at 3/4 time.  A few seconds later Bernie did similar.  Implied message to young players: mistakes happen, don't worry, move on to the next contest and just play your role.

Gus was filthy with himself and almost inconsolable but it must be reassuring for him to get that support. 

Respect earning leadership by Watts and Vince.

Captain like material by Watts and Vince. Where was N Jones when this happened?

[John Crow Batty 8,266]

Back to Jones. He usually plays far better than today even when we lose badly. One of our most  consistent  better players without argument. As for leadership though he has bugger all influence in lifting his teammates out of chronic softcockness syndrome.  

[Demons11 6,404]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Not angry, just disappointed.  I've yelled, gotten angry and been frustrated at our decisions today, but in the end I'm more disappointed than anything.

But we lost the game up in the box with our gameplan.  St. Kilda beat us EXACTLY how they beat us last time and we didn't seem to plan for it.  No change at all.  We started well, but the moment they put us under pressure we faltered.  They made us look slow and we played some dumb footy which allowed them to get it down there end without trouble and score.  

I don't buy us being tired or whatever.  Not enough players rose to the occasion.  They stopped Hunt's run, Kennedy was poor, White and Grimes were WELL down on last week, Hogan had a mare, the captain was quiet, Vandenberg didn't do a whole lot... and the list goes on.

So, what do we do?  We reboot and look to next week.  What else can we do?  A few will get dropped and I think we know that guys like Grimes aren't the way forward.  When the pressure lifted some of our guys were found wanting.  

Chin up fellas. 

I don't think a change in game plan would have helped.  We were beaten by their pressure

[Moonshadow 16,275]

14 minutes ago, olisik said:

Captain like material by Watts and Vince. Where was N Jones when this happened?

When you say your point once, people listen and consider. When you badger us with it, no one cares

Edited July 17, 2016 by Moonshadow

[Binmans PA 26,264]

26 minutes ago, Nasher said:

This is the kind of confirmation-bias-y comment that I personally try and avoid making.  Show is the evidence, mate, otherwise it just looks like you making stuff up.

So it's on me to show evidence when I state an opinion, but it's not on those who disagree to show evidence to back up theirs?

I go every week and just call it how I see it. This is an opinion formed by watching him play over numerous years. People can agree or disagree with it, but going back over the stats isn't going to help. He had a shocker today and still collected 22 touches. I'd say he'd usually get more when the chips are down, but there's a difference between racking them up and showing real leadership. Just because he may have collected multiple disposals, doesn't mean he imparted himself on the game in a meaningful way that shows leadership or really helps the team. As we've seen with our chronic overuse, disposals do not necessarily equate to good performances. Cotchin is similar. Jones kicks the goals he needs to though, that puts him marginally ahead.

With this being said, what form of evidence shall I provide? I posted last week that he'd had an ordinary month of footy, where he had started to pick up cheap possessions and consistently put team mates under pressure with his disposal. People disagreed with me. That's fine, but that's what I saw.

In the last month of footy, he registered 35, 33, 25, 32 possessions. During those games, I thought the old Jones crept back into his current day game. But looking at those disposals without watching that they put team mates under pressure, you'd say he was terrific. IMO, he wasn't. He is the leader of the club and I expect more from my leaders.

Edited July 17, 2016 by AdamFphlebeb

[Binmans PA 26,264]

22 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Back to Jones. He usually plays far better than today even when we lose badly. One of our most  consistent  better players without argument. As for leadership though he has bugger all influence in lifting his teammates out of chronic softcockness syndrome.  

Completely agree. He is one of our most consistently better players.

Edited July 17, 2016 by AdamFphlebeb

[Seraph 1,714]

Viney's mark and goal had captain material written all over it.

Should have given a lift to the team at the time, but no-one went with him. 

Also, that Hogan report was ridiculous. Had their full back hanging off him all day (including in the incident that he got reported) and he got 1 free for it for the whole game. Absolutely absurd. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Seraph

[demonique 314]

I knew last week we would lose this game. An absolute certainty after playing last week in the humidity of Darwin then coming back to the cold ....the body just doesn't recover in time after the effort in that heat !should be a bye the week after for certain and should be insisted upon next year .. 

I was listening to the game while driving to the airport and after 15 minutes of the game i knew a miracle wasn't going to occur even though we out scored the Saints, but it sounded like we got the goals through StKildas sloppy start..

The Saints always seem to save their best form to play us and it sucks !

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Well I was enjoying the season up until this point. 

I don't know what it is with the Saints but we just struggle to beat them. 

The only thing that would make me feel better after the preference today is if we beat West Coast next week so I can rub it in my wife's face and every other stupid WCE support over here in Perth. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by ILLDieADemon

[Demon Jack 6,329]

First game this season where I find myself struggling to find any positives. All the work and positives in the first quarter were quickly undone by the end of the second quarter. Besides from Viney, there were no real standouts in terms of individual performances either. Saying that, it was encouraging to see Brayshaw back in action and (aside from a couple of shockers) play pretty well.

At this stage of the season, all I can hope for is that we keep backing the youth in and keep getting games into the likes of Hogan, Brayshaw, Petracca, Kent and Hunt. It's just such a shame that this has been the tradition over the last decade. Despite the large amount of Strauss' and Tapscotts that have come through the club, I'm extremely confident that this is the core group of young players we've been waiting for since 2007.