Pavlich confirmed to play in Darwin.

why do I get a sinking feeling he'll kick a bag? 

We should belt Freo on current form, but that makes it almost certain that we're going to lose by 10 goals.

40 minutes ago, gOLLy said:

I can't understand how there is no heat on N.Jones.....

His disposal has been poor for quite some time.

Because this is the changes thread, and as if his name is going to come up in selection discussions.

We MUST go smaller. Due to both conditions and our opponent. O Mac (rest)and Dawes ("rest") both out. 

1 hour ago, Tessaract said:

Surely Max King deserves an opportunity? Can he be upgraded?

No doesn't deserve an opportunity because he has done nothing.

Will be delisted at years end.

55 minutes ago, gOLLy said:

I can't understand how there is no heat on N.Jones.....

His disposal has been poor for quite some time.

His disposal almost seems lazy. It's like he's capable but he doesn't care enough about it or he's lost his timing. He's making the kind of mistakes that I thought were above him. He had good moments on Sunday, but the clangers really piled up more than usual

Ins... Spencer  Grimes  Garland

Garland to replace an overwhelmed o.mcd (5 poor weeks in the last 6 games). Grimes deserved the extra mid role at VDHberg expense. VDHberg offerred tackling but no run and handballs put others constantly under pressure. Spencer needs to be in to relieve Gawn and allow Watts to stay as a forward.  Brayshaw not quite ready yet (one more week at Casey).

Outs... VDHberg Dawes O.mcd 

the squad...

jetta  t.mcd  garland

vince  frost  hunt

stretch  viney  grimes

kent  watts  petracca

garlett hogan kennedy

gawn  tyson  n.jones

harmes  m.jones  bugg  spencer 

emerg. michie oliver trengove

Out :-  O'Mac, Vanders,  Bugg

In :-   Dunn, Brayshaw,  Grimes

Bring in Grimes to play where Vince plays,boot Dawes out and put Bernie in his place.

2 hours ago, monoccular said:

Spencer????

Forward????

9 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

I know what you're saying, but he's required to play his bit.

And don't say as a statue....

He may well get dropped, but that will put enormous pressure on Hogan and Watts. Dawes commands a tall and has a role to play. I don't think he'll be out of the side this week.

But he doesn't Jumbo. A significant part of his role surely has to be as resting ruckman instead of Watts?

Watts is not going to win many of those (even though he does use a few clever tricks to do so at times) and is easily muscled out of the ruck contest most of the time. Expending valuable energy also when he should be either a kick behind play at the stoppages or on the outside offering a receive option and giving us valuable ball use/delivery inside 50 or creative link up assistance or playing forward. He is our best ball user and decision maker with ball in hand and our most accurate shot at goal. Whereas Dawes may be one of our worst ball users and rarely kicks goals. We also risk Watts getting a severe (unnecessary) injury like a corkie. Why would any coach want this set up/option?

If Dawes can't play this role then he should not be in the team.

The sooner Pedo returns the better IMO. I would rather see Spencil in until then TBO. At least he can fill the ruck role and offer a decoy for Hogan at times and take a tall defender. Couldn't be any worse than the current set up assuming 'Watts in the Ruck' continues. If Dawes played much more often as resting ruck then i might be more conducive to him staying until Pedo is available/ready.

Spencil is certainly not a match winner vs Dawes on his own but by bringing him in as resting ruck/occasional forward it allows Watts to do more of what he does best and have more energy doing so, which in my books would more than make up for the loss of Dawes up forward.

Edited July 4, 20169 yr by Rusty Nails

14 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

But he doesn't Jumbo. A significant part of his role surely has to be as resting ruckman instead of Watts?

Watts is not going to win many of those (even though he does use a few good tricks to do so at times) and is easily muscled out of the ruck contest most of the time. Expending valuable energy also when he should be either a kick behind play at the stoppages or on the outside offering a receive option and giving us valuable ball use/delivery inside 50 or creative link up assistance or playing forward. He is our best ball user and decision maker with ball in hand and our most accurate shot at goal. Whereas Dawes may be one of our worst ball users and rarely kicks goals. Why would any coach want the above set up/option?

If Dawes can't play this role then he should not be in the team.

The sooner Pedo returns the better IMO. I would rather see Spencil in until then TBO. At least he can fill the ruck role and offer a decoy for Hogan at times and take a tall defender. Couldn't be any worse than the current set up assuming 'Watts in the Ruck' continues. If Dawes played much more often as resting ruck then i might be more conducive to him staying until Pedo is available/ready.

Spencil is certainly not a match winner vs Dawes on his own but by bringing him in as resting ruck/occasional forward it allows Watts to do more of what he does best and have more energy doing so, which in my books would more than make up for the loss of Dawes up forward.

Despite all the ridicule of Spencer, from my recollection he was one of the best for Casey a few weeks ago, winning the hitouts and crunching a few goals. Can't be too bad alternating him and Gawn and having two giants in the ruck and as targets in the goal square, whilst Hogan, Watts and Garlett do their thing!

11 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

These threads are always a great check as to whether I was at a different game, whether it looked different on tv, whether I have good or bad bias against certain players or whether I know nothing about the game.

Aside from the general call for Dawes out the calls for M Jones and Billy Stretch when they run all day and made good decisions is funny.

Calls for Frost when he played on arguably the in form power forward in the comp and kept him to 5 marks and 2 goals is funny.

I would play one less tall forward (due to Dawes form) and one less tall back against Freo (as not needed) and take in more run.

Out: Dawes, O-Mac

In: Grimes, Oliver

 

I like your thinking You dont need tall v Freo you need mobility and hard tackling

6 day turn around, heat. What have we learned from our poor selection table decisions this year?

We need someone truely fresh with endurance. Trenners fits that bill. Whilst VDB wasn't our worst he always looks spent and I wonder if he is the right choice for Darwin. On performance Bugg should be first out. Petracca was down as well but does enough to be a handful.

I understand the anti Dawes sentiment but he does run and try all day and do we have a  replacement for him? He is of no value at the trade table now so should we be trying him down back and move Frosty, who on the stats had a bad day (not to mention his kick out on the full under no pressure) as well, forward and see if he provides a contest down there.

We need to bring in two mids who can run all day and lose some of the lumbering dead weight (we always make the mistake of going too tal up there).

In: Tenners and Oliver (and possibly Grimes)

Out:  Dawes, VDB, (possibly Bugg)

 

The FD has not played two rucks all year - they won't start now.

12 hours ago, gOLLy said:

I can't understand how there is no heat on N.Jones.....

Probably because he was deemed the 6th best player on the ground according to the coaches votes.

Really don't understand that Vanders hate.. Is just such a presence around the ball in addition to his tackling and second efforts. Reckon he's a really important part of the team at the moment.

Grimes in for Omac, Brayshaw/Oliver in for Dawes. Vanders/Petracca spend more time forward.

B: Jetta TMac Bugg

HB: Hunt Frost Vince

C: Tyson Viney Stretch

HF: Petracca Watts Kent

F: Garlett Hogan Kennedy

R: Gawn Jones Tyson

R: Brayshaw Harmes Vanders Grimes

12 hours ago, gOLLy said:

I can't understand how there is no heat on N.Jones.....

His disposal has been poor for quite some time.

I kind of agree with you his disposal seems to be getting worse, but his poor disposal is usually in tough circumstances. We see jones shoot out a poor handball under heavy pressure or try to hit a man 30m+ away with his left foot. Both of which are difficult for anyone, particularly a player who has always had more will than skill. The ones we don't accept are the Dawes 20m pass along the ground from a free kick, the Tmac in 10m of space somehow finding a way to get smothered the Bernie handball to play on when the reciever isnt watching. Jones turns it over as much as anyone, but the circumstances are usually quite different. His set shots have gotten worse though, I felt like last year and the year before if he had a set shot anywhere you could pencil it in before he kicked it but he missed another 50-50 type shot in the 1st qtr. That said he is still better than some...

Would like to see Watts at CHF and Spencil come in for Dawes. He has been marking, tackling and kicking goals for Casey. Also think Dunny would be a good match up for Pav.

Out: Dawes, Vandenburg

In Spencer, Grimes

 

Gives us someone who can give Gawn a rest and compete in the ruck, Vandenburg looked tired and grimes has been pushing for selection for the past 5 weeks.

Also frees Watts up to play in the forward line or on ball.

Dunn in for OMac should also be considered but doubt it will happen

22 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Always interesting to see people's personal attacks on players - especially the ones made by people who clearly weren't at the game.

This week the selectors were worried about the pace of Adelaide's run from defence and in transition and made a priority of picking a quick side. But even despite that we struggled to stop them on the break and the clever short kicks from guys like Tom Lynch rally cut us up. By contrast I can barely remember a Melbourne forward taking a mark on the lead - partly because they have got into the habit of wanting it over the top and partly because Talia was so influential on Dawes and the rest of their defence led by Laird, Smith and Cheney were so disciplined and quick enough to snuff out lead options. Hartigan was the only one who panicked in one-on-one contests (eg; freekick goals to Watts and Hoges).

The good news is that Freo aren't known for their speedy transition and hence picking our fastest side isn't as imperative.

But the hardest part for our selectors is deciding what to do with Dawes and our key up the ground forward post. There are many options that have been floated here. Both Hulett and the Weed appear a little underdone for AFL just yet and to be honest that haven't set the world on fire in the games I have watched at VFL level. To be honest i would hope that we wait until our Round 19 game against Gold Coast to give one of them a debut to help their progress, even if it doesn't help the team that day.

Some still are calling for Pedo, who is a brave workman, but we all know he is just a tad slow in the long run, although against some teams he might pose problems. Then some would argue playing a second ruckman (eg: Spencil) will allow Gawny to spend more time up forward and allow Hoges to play more as the upfield down the line marking threat that Dawes has been unable to provide. I actually favour this when we are up against a really strong ruck combination, but I'm sorry but Clarke and Hannath don't represent that sort of threat and Darwin's dewiness means that a second ruck is a luxury we can't afford this week.

As a result my preferred option this week is to send T-mac forward as he did so well pinch-hitting last year and to bring in Garland as our third defensive tall. If Pavlich or Taberner are too strong for Frost or O-mac then at least Roosy can swap the McDonald's and still have the forward mobility that we need. 

I had three other players in the gun after Adelaide and all could be left out and not require a change of structure. 

Matt Jones came in to provide pace and pressure - he enjoyed a good first half but went back into his shell in the second and his zero tackle count tells more about his psyche. Compare that to little Kennedy or Billy who both threw themselves and tackled and pressured like maniacs. Mediocre Matt won't be missed and given Freo's slow build-ups, we can finally give his wing to Grimes and it will not have any impact on our run, indeed unlucky Jack will keep running all day (albeit not with blistering pace) and I guarantee he will lay tackles. The other fact is that Roosy clearly is now across that everyone thinks he has been cruel to Grimesy all year and will want to play him just to prove his point that he is no longer good enough. But Grimesy is resilient and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up playing well just to spite him.

The two others in the gun this week are Bugg and Petracca. Both could't cope with the pace and ferocity of the attack on the ball and the player by the Crows. Bugg has been handy this year, but needs a couple of weeks of dominating the VFL again, just to bring back that passion that he had at the start of the season to lay tackles. His spot will allow Brayshaw to return - I can't imagine we will let him sit and wait for two more weeks.

As to Petracca, apart from the Pies game, he really hasn't dominated like we all hoped. He really struggled to find space yesterday and you wonder if he deserves a week off and more tuition on his running patterns from the coaches box. To me that leaves room for either Michie, Trenners or Oliver to return and given the likely greasy conditions, I'd actually go Viv because his kicking skills are more pure and his return down back will allow Bernie to be used in our midfield set up again.

One final thing, to those of you who are wanting VB dropped, go back and look at the impact he had when he wasn't actually in the middle. The first few minutes of every quarter when he was on the pine (especially the third), we were spanked in the clearances and he was the missing link. We still need his aggression, just as we need it from Bernie, because we are a young side and our star player - Jack Viney - is now getting tagged and is still a little proppy - hence we aren't charging out of the middle as easily as we were in the first few rounds anymore.

Out: Dawes, M.Jones, Bugg, Petracca

In: Garland, Grimes, Brayshaw, Michie

B: Jetta (Walters) Frost (Pavlich) O.Mac (Hannath/Taberner)

HB: Vince/Harmes (Ballantyne/Mayne) Garland (Taberner/Mayne) Hunt (Weller/Blakely)

C: Grimes Viney (head-to-head with Neale) Stretch

HF: Kent T-Mac Kennedy

F: Garlett Hoges Watts

Ru: Gawn Tyson Jones (if tagged by Barlow, sent back to Ballantyne)

Int: Harmes, Brayshaw, Michie, VB

 

   

If you are advocating bringing back Garland and Michie you really should review your assessment

Those calling for someone to take the 2nd ruck duties so Watts doesn't have to do it, gives Watts more time forward etc...

Have you considered that Watts improved form is because he is getting a run on ball. I know he didn't ruck early in the season and played some good footy but he has really gone up a level since having to do the relief ruck role.

He has no option but to compete and use his footy smarts and it's working.

Just now, rjay said:

Those calling for someone to take the 2nd ruck duties so Watts doesn't have to do it, gives Watts more time forward etc...

Have you considered that Watts improved form is because he is getting a run on ball. I know he didn't ruck early in the season and played some good footy but he has really gone up a level since having to do the relief ruck role.

He has no option but to compete and use his footy smarts and it's working.

You are possibly correct, however now Watts has this form we dont need him on the ball to find form. I have liked him in the ruck and I do not say we should bring spencer in to take watts out of the middle i say it to take Hogan out of the goal square and Dawes out of the team.

Watts right now is our Mr fix it. He can play FF, FB, as a mid, ruck or on a wing. Dawes is a 1 dimentinal CHF who is wildly out of form. Hogan can play FF and CHF but has shown far better form at CHF. Spencer is a 2m tall forward threat who is in form and can dominate any pinch hit ruckman who he will be facing. 

All i can say is right now would you rather Hogan, Dawes forward with Watts in the ruck or Hogan, Watts forward with Spencer in the ruck, As far as i can tell given Dawes form (or lack there of) the answer is easy. Dawes in form? then the answer changes, but he is a detriment right now. Spencer I dont think is.

Not to mention Gawn can drop down to maybe 70% ruck duties and spend time forward he can clunk them pretty well too. Roos said round 1 that we won because we were more flexible. I would argue that Dawes makes us far less flexable.

18 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Out: Dawes, O-Mac

In: Grimes, Oliver

Our greatest problem is effective kicking out of the back half. I'm not sure Grimes is an improvement on OMac although he is probably better one-on-one. If Wagner is available, bring him back in (he is possibly only out for a week). We miss Salem in that respect.

Definitely like Oliver in to give us more clearances from the middle and around the ground.

Edited July 5, 20169 yr by mauriesy

Unless Pedo is back (pretty he is not) then no change

kids need to develop more and the guys that played at casey will be no more fresh then the AFL guys

I though the team played well on sunday - just young guys in particular making errors at key stages