POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 8

[nutbean 8,837]

1 minute ago, loges said:

I want it measured

It was easily within 10 metres and we could see it coming  - we were yelling at him to stop.

The frustrating part was not that they paid that decision which was correct but I counted from that time on at least 5 other occasions where they let it go.

[loges 6,286]

44 minutes ago, Optimus D said:

Yes just one of those days when the bounce of the ball just didn't go our way. Always thought we were in the game just couldn't string the goals together and gain momentum. If Hogan had his kicking boots on and MacDonald didn't give away his weekly 2 to 3 goals in turnovers this game could have been really close in the end.

From an umpiring perspective the thing taht annoys me is just how many times the doggies threw the ball instead of handballing and not get penalised.

The amount of times the ball would just ricochet out of a pack to a dogs player was just amazing

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Still all between the ears for me, as soon as the pressure is on, we fumble, drop marks, do not run hard enough, wait for someone else to do it, make bad decisions and just dont want the responsibility.  Once our confidence doesn't drop, these sort of games will be much close.

[rpfc 27,662]

The Dogs got their core together a couple years ahead of us - and they are something - Macrae, Stringer, Bont, Hunter, Libba, Wallis, Dahlhaus...

They also play a style of game that we have largely modelled - pressure up forward, zone off to press, quick hands to release, no panic kicks, hard running, automatic switching...

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

12 minutes ago, AzzKikA said:

Still all between the ears for me, as soon as the pressure is on, we fumble, drop marks, do not run hard enough, wait for someone else to do it, make bad decisions and just dont want the responsibility.  Once our confidence doesn't drop, these sort of games will be much close.

You could literally see the confidence ebbing away ... fortunately the guys kept it together and didn't collapse. But they were never able to get the run of 3 or 4 quick goals that might have turned the game around.

Beveridge and his crew clearly studied our losses to see what we don't cope with.

[John Crow Batty 8,344]

10 minutes ago, AzzKikA said:

Still all between the ears for me, as soon as the pressure is on, we fumble, drop marks, do not run hard enough, wait for someone else to do it, make bad decisions and just dont want the responsibility.  Once our confidence doesn't drop, these sort of games will be much close.

Tend to agree. Th dogs look like they can rotate their entire list and still play well.  I am very concerned about the second half of the season if our finals window closes. Could be a disaster. Some drastic action has to be taken fixing up the defence before we run out of steam.

[Sammbo 19]

15 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

You are, however, now allowed to throw the ball.

...and very frequently too.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,736]

13 hours ago, picket fence said:

Luke Beveridge is a great coach and top top bloke!! Give me a break! You are on thin ground here son with these comments. I know Bevo and he is entitled to his opinion and I'll tell you what he can coach ( as proven today) and as I have said he is a sensational person!

He may be but he comes across as an arrogant [censored] in the media

[mo64 5,273]

27 minutes ago, rpfc said:

The Dogs got their core together a couple years ahead of us - and they are something - Macrae, Stringer, Bont, Hunter, Libba, Wallis, Dahlhaus...

They also play a style of game that we have largely modelled - pressure up forward, zone off to press, quick hands to release, no panic kicks, hard running, automatic switching...

 

Hunter, Wallis and Dahlhaus and several others were treading water till Beveridge got there. Beveridge instilled confidence and belief in his players from day 1. Roos found it necessary to take 2 years of a defensive gameplan before he had confidence in the players. When they have injuries, players of lesser ability can walk into the team a seamlessly fullfil a role.

I pointed out before the game the interview with Craig Jennings and his effusive praise of the Dogs coaches. Make no mistake, Beveridge is a far superior head coach to Roos in the modern game.

Edited May 15, 2016 by mo64

[1964nowMORE 451]

Some insightful reviews on here. I agree Dogs were too good for us. Once again we got opened up out the back when we failed to impact any of the 3-4 short kicks that got them to the middle, quickly. From there we were outmanned.

in terms of contested ball contribution and run I thought we got absolutely nothing from Hunt, Wagner, Harmes and Garland, all of whom were excellent vs Gold Coast. Outside garland they are all young and will do this all year i suspect, but the more they play together the better.

we will learn more from this game than any other.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

8 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Tend to agree. Th dogs look like they can rotate their entire list and still play well.  I am very concerned about the second half of the season if our finals window closes. Could be a disaster. Some drastic action has to be taken fixing up the defence before we run out of steam.

We break zone defenses apart too, we did it a few times to the dogs but it doesn't work with skill errors. You can be in the correct position all day long but if your team mates are not doing their part it falls apart pretty quickly.  Although, there was one moment when I was appalled to see when stringer kicked a fast break goal and Max was the only player gut running to chase them down.

Also, I hate seeing McDonald peeling off his player to help out a team mate running another down, it just leave his man free and you can see what comes next from a mile away, most of the time if he runs with his own player then the one with the ball has no one to dish it off to.

[nutbean 8,837]

9 minutes ago, mo64 said:

 

 Make no mistake, Beveridge is a far superior head coach to Roos in the modern game.

How on earth did you reach that conclusion ? Roos took a list that was bereft of talent, gutted it and started again. Beveridge took a list that had talent and has it improved it and are playing really good football. Two clubs that started from different places and are now in two different places.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, nutbean said:

How on earth did you reach that conclusion ? Roos took a list that was bereft of talent, gutted it and started again. Beveridge took a list that had talent and has it improved it and are playing really good football. Two clubs that started from different places and are now in two different places.

Because he always takes that view with the club.  I don't know what he is going to post about when we're up and about.

[mo64 5,273]

Just now, nutbean said:

How on earth did you reach that conclusion ? Roos took a list that was bereft of talent, gutted it and started again. Beveridge took a list that had talent and has it improved it and are playing really good football. Two clubs that started from different places and are now in two different places.

Everyone thought Beveridge was taking over a basket case. He lost the core of his talented senior players from day 1 (Griffen, Higgins, Cooney) plus his best player (Libba). Beveridge dared to win, Roos didn't. That's the difference.

[Nasher 33,187]

13 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Hunter, Wallis and Dahlhaus and several others were treading water till Beveridge got there. Beveridge instilled confidence and belief in his players from day 1. Roos found it necessary to take 2 years of a defensive gameplan before he had confidence in the players. When they have injuries, players of lesser ability can walk into the team a seamlessly fullfil a role.

I pointed out before the game the interview with Craig Jennings and his effusive praise of the Dogs coaches. Make no mistake, Beveridge is a far superior head coach to Roos in the modern game.

Roos also turfed half the team he inherited. I think that says plenty about the confidence he had in the list.

You can't compare the two really. The legwork had been done for Beveridge; Roos started from scratch. A better comparison for Beveridge will be Goodwin 2017.

[mo64 5,273]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Roos also turfed half the team he inherited. I think that says plenty about the confidence he had in the list.

You can't compare the two really. The legwork had been done for Beveridge; Roos started from scratch. A better comparison for Beveridge will be Goodwin 2017.

Everybody thought the Dogs would be bottom 4 last year. Beveridge is a brilliant coach, and shouldn't be undersold.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Just now, mo64 said:

Everybody thought the Dogs would be bottom 4 last year. Beveridge is a brilliant coach, and shouldn't be undersold.

Everyone thought Carlton would struggle to win a game too.  Everyone thought Freo would be top 4. Everyone said Collingwood have a good list and will be on the up and up.  Everyone is wrong about everything.  

Edited May 15, 2016 by AzzKikA

[Dr. Gonzo 22,736]

13 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

Dogs a class above.  Harder inside, better outside and cleaner. Margin flattered us.

In a way yes as they dominated play but we wasted many opportunities ourselves- Gawns snap and Hogan's set shot right in front two that would usually be converted. 

[John Crow Batty 8,344]

If Carlton overtake us, no doubt there will be those who insist they had more talent..

Edited May 16, 2016 by america de cali

[ArtificialWisdom 3,945]

Hard game to assess,
- Michie played well but will stuggle to keep his spot long term
- Aside from in the warm up i dont think i saw Bugg all day but that could just mean he was under packs
- Hunt and wagner get passes cos they are young and had to deal with some mighty slick/fast ball movement (doesnt mean they will both stay in the team though).
- Garland has copped alot but im not sure he did much wrong same with Tmac (aside from 1 or 2 dropped marks).
- We missed Kent's pressure forward we needed harmes to step up and take his role and he just didnt.
- Pedo like most roleplayers only seem to play the role when the team plays well we are desperate for the Weed and or Hulett to develop and break in sooner rather than later. Not sure what happens short term

All in all I think we made them earn it, we were not pushovers like we very well could have been. Unfortunatly we are still a couple of steps off the best teams, simply where we are at. No need for panic, we were never gonna beat them if they played well. Loses like that we can wear as long as we win the next 2 against teams we can/should beat.

[nutbean 8,837]

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Everybody thought the Dogs would be bottom 4 last year. Beveridge is a brilliant coach, and shouldn't be undersold.

Don't disagree with you that he is a very good coach  - but your original statement is that he a "far superior coach" than Roos and that IMO is plainly a comparison that cant be made due to the vast differences of club starting points.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,736]

13 hours ago, drdrake said:

I cant believe people are accepted of today, outside around the contest, we wouldnt run to defend.  We have massive issues getting opened up out the back and that is the work rate to run back so often it was Jetta and Hunt cover 4 to 5 Dogs players working hard forward.  Our other defenders and mids were jogging through the middle.

Jones was bad today

We were definitely flat today on more ways than one.  I've seen us run hard this year so don't think it's laziness, we just looked out on our feet a bit today and caught in no man's land too often.  We had a couple of weak links who refused to play in front or run hard and that made the whole team look slow.

[ArtificialWisdom 3,945]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We were definitely flat today on more ways than one.  I've seen us run hard this year so don't think it's laziness, we just looked out on our feet a bit today and caught in no man's land too often.  We had a couple of weak links who refused to play in front or run hard and that made the whole team look slow.

Im not convinced we looked that slow, they just looked really fast the number of times they got lightning quick and accurate handballs off (excluding the throws) was incredible. They are one of if not the best forward running sides, once they got through we were always gonna struggle. At least a few passages of play I think we zoned and pressured very well but their precision disposal was just too good and they got forward anyway. I'm remembering a worm burner around the corner under someone arm along the members wing hitting a bulldogs forward on the chest, you just cant defend that. That confidence and execution is all we lacked. 

[Fat Tony 4,553]

The Dogs did a good job of nullifying Gawn’s influence in the ruck and so we lost the game at the contest. The Inside 50s were 62 to 48 and the Contested Possessions were 155 to 125. The Dogs were also very fast and clean by hand when they won the ball and tackled well when they didn’t.

This is not to say our back line isn’t struggling. As much as Garland was exposed, so too were Hunt and Wagner. But in saying this, I feel our back line are getting no help from our game plan. IMO we are over-pressing in the forward line, particularly late in quarters when the game opens up. Our back line is then getting shown as ordinary because the heat on the ball is lacking and because AFL players are all skilled enough to find a target with an open forward line and no pressure. IMO we should be more willing to flood back late in quarters and allow the opposition an easier midfield transition, so long as we get numbers back into our defensive 50.

Stretch was good and clean and provided further confirmation that he will be a good AFL player. He isn’t a super quick outside player and needs to do more defensively.

Petracca showed his unquestionable talent, but his decision making is poor at the moment compared to AFL players and he needs more games. It also surprises me how much of the ball he is getting.

Oliver didn’t have a great day and needs to get fitter and stronger.

I thought Michie used the ball well, but he had 0 tackles.

Salem is classy but needs to run harder.

Kennedy continues to impress me.

It sounds like we will have a few suspended players this week, so I wouldn’t be making many unforced changes. As well as ANB is going in the VFL, he doesn’t play back which is where we are struggling.

If Jetta gets suspended, I would like to see Harmes be tried down back. IMO a modern defence needs players with the ability to get off the ground.

[bush demon 1,922]

16 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Garlett very rarely wins the overhead mark.

The Gawn factor was gone. Helooked cooked.

Umps did not pay many against dogs.

Dogs pressure way too good.

A great full forward needs to kick easy shots

Full credit to tyson

you mean a 'once-in-a-generation' footballer...   (Ed: Sorry, clicked the wrong quote).

Edited May 16, 2016 by bush demon
attached wrong quote