Drop Hogan

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,155]

Jesse is out of form, possibly for the first time in his life.  He had concrete hands in the NAB challenge was towelled up by Davis Round one and was unable to hold the ball in contested marks against the Bombers.  He's frustrated that he can't do the things that usually come very naturally to him.

He's still very inexperienced; he didn't play under 18s as he was over here with the Dees, he sat out an entire year with a back injury.  He's an immature player in a very mature body, many tend to forget this. 

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffen said:

As i am sure you're aware this has far more to do with the horrible efforts of the midfield and half backs bombing the ball long and high over and over than any one player, Wayne Carey would struggle with the delivery we were serving up so i don't think it's fair to judge  the way the forward line structure works until we see it with the midfield delivering the ball well, the biggest difference you'll see from the last quarter against the Giants isn't as you suggest based on the fact they cleared Pedo out, it's based on the fact we actually kicked the ball to targets instead of bombing it long.

Neither Pedo or Garland is totally to blame for our efforts, as a team we're not doing the basics well enough, often enough

 

I'm not blaming Pedo for the loss, don't get sucked in to DazzleDavey's standard hysterics. I'm also not blaming the forward line, but it's also not 100% the midfield's fault.

The delivery was poor, but part of that is how the forward line was working. If they're all crowding one spot where are the mids meant to kick it? If the leads are poorly timed, to the wrong spot or non-existent, where are the mids meant to kick it? Too much babying of Hogan about it because we're all scared he'll leave.

I don't think Pedo is a terrible player, but I don't think he's good for us in the forward line. He's big, slow, has a poor tank and the synergy between him, Hogan & Watts is very poor. Sure the delivery was better in the last quarter against GWS, but have a look at the forward line in that quarter also, there's WAY more space, way more pressure and way more cohesiveness in that quarter than any other we've played this year. It's not a coincidence.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Jesse is out of form, possibly for the first time in his life.  He had concrete hands in the NAB challenge was towelled up by Davis Round one and was unable to hold the ball in contested marks against the Bombers.  He's frustrated that he can't do the things that usually come very naturally to him.

He's still very inexperienced; he didn't play under 18s as he was over here with the Dees, he sat out an entire year with a back injury.  He's an immature player in a very mature body, many tend to forget this. 

Don't think anyone is forgetting it, we're just hoping it gets sorted out before it becomes a major problem for him and the team.

Champion players don't sook it up and blame others if they're struggling, they fight it out. That's what we want to start seeing from him.

 

[Forest Demon 4,681]

He is meant to have good aerobic ability. So he needs to get on this bike more, get a few possessions up the ground, creating space and working over his opponent in the process. If there is more space and his opponent is feeling the pinch, perfect.

At the moment, he is plonked in the goal square, engages in a wrestle, appeals for the free kick as soon as he is touched, and just lets the opposition bring it to ground and take off with it unopposed.

Obviously there are other moving parts around that, and Watts and Pederson need to play their part as well, but too many times I saw him not even provide a contest on the weekend.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Forest Demon
wrong there/their....the shame

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

21 hours ago, Devil is in the Detail said:

Do you think is it Roos instructions to bomb on long? In the NAB cup games we were spotting up that option 40m out from goal with a short pass. Worked much better.

Boys didn't work hard enough for this to be an option. It's not just delivery into the forward line that is hurting us, it's working hard to get them on the hop so that the forward line opens up. We're bombing away because our options have dried up.

[CBDees 3,162]

7 NEWS views of Wayne Carey (pasted below):

__________________________________________________________________________

AFL great Wayne Carey has defended Jesse Hogan after the Melbourne key forward's lacklustre start to the season attracted some fierce criticism.

Hogan has divided opinion sharply among some of the best key forwards in AFL history after only kicking one goal in Saturday's upset loss to Essendon.

Last year's Rising Star winner also was having a quiet day in round one, before he helped spark the comeback win over GWS with three last-quarter goals.

Former Essendon full forward Matthew Lloyd savaged Hogan on Monday, calling the 19-year-old's body language in the opening two matches horrific.

Another former key forward great, Hawthorn star Dermott Brereton, accused Hogan of being non-competitive when the ball went to ground in the Bombers game.

But Carey, the two-time North Melbourne premiership captain and an all-time great centre half-forward, said Hogan should be cut some slack.

"You have to remember, this kid's 19 - he's played 22 games," Carey said on Seven's Talking Footy.

"And with the body language ... I think Jesse Hogan gets really disappointed with himself more so than he does (with) teammates.

"If he's not playing well - and he hasn't had a great start to the season - I just see that he gets really down.

"Now, can he improve that? Absolutely."

Carey noted that Hogan has put off contract talks with Melbourne until the end of the season, amid growing speculation about whether he might stay at the Demons long-term.

"Let's not forget, he's just a kid and the expectations and the talk around contracts and all sorts of stuff - how's this kid meant to handle all that at just 19?," Carey said.

"I think he'd like to be told how he's going - what he's doing right, what he's doing wrong.

"He's a very proud young player who's set a pretty high standard already.

"I think it's more about him rather than his teammates doing something wrong."

Melbourne onballer Bernie Vince added that players up the ground were not doing Hogan many favours with how the ball had been delivered to him so far this season.

"I'd be pretty frustrated, too ... we just need to get it in better, it's probably our fault," Vince said.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,155]

27 minutes ago, stuie said:

Don't think anyone is forgetting it, we're just hoping it gets sorted out before it becomes a major problem for him and the team.

Champion players don't sook it up and blame others if they're struggling, they fight it out. That's what we want to start seeing from him.

 

I hope he matures and grows out of it too, but there are many champions who were cantankerous, dummy-spitters...

Richardson

J.Riewoldt

Lockett

Barry Hall

Brereton

Even our beloved Allen Jakovich.

Flanboyant stars, full of flair and personality and passion.

 

 

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I hope he matures and grows out of it too, but there are many champions who were cantankerous, dummy-spitters...

Richardson

J.Riewoldt

Lockett

Barry Hall

Brereton

Even our beloved Allen Jakovich.

Flanboyant stars, full of flair and personality and passion.

 

 

BUT none of them would give up if things were going against them. That's what Jesse needs to work on.

 

[DeeZee 6,733]

People talk about Jesse like he is a 200 game veteran.

He is still just a developing kid really, and will be constantly learning about the game,tweaking things here and there,his attitude and on field demeanour is just frustration with himself.

Sure he needs to break out of the doldrums body language thing and exert himself a bit more,but he had a few mates on the weekend, and last week he won the game for us.

In the AFL media, way too much is scrutinised and dissected after just one game of footy.

Edited April 5, 2016 by DeeZee

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

32 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I hope he matures and grows out of it too, but there are many champions who were cantankerous, dummy-spitters...

Richardson

J.Riewoldt

Lockett

Barry Hall

Brereton

Even our beloved Allen Jakovich.

Flanboyant stars, full of flair and personality and passion.

 

 

All sooks and dummy spitters except Brereton. Cocky and arrogant but walked the walk and multiple premiership TEAM player. 

For all their illustrious achievements, Lockett, Richardson, Hall,  Riewoldt and Jackovich can only boast one solitary premiership between them all.  Arguably all selfish un-achieving prima donnas. At his young age Hogan is  already miles ahead on the dummy spitting sookiness stakes. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by america de cali

[Grapeviney 8,834]

I've edited some posts to remove personal / family information.

Please respect the sensitivities around this.

Thanks

[Demon Dynasty 15,500]

16 hours ago, Peter Griffen said:

I agree totally that it would help and i know he's been in touch with Carey once and Jonothan Brown a few times, i really think the issues Jesse is having are between the ears, he thinks he needs to be a match winner because he knows he's good enough, but he's forgetting to do the little things that made him such a good player like, Leading hard, repeat leads, chasing, harrassing, Tackling, getting to a heap of contests and at least bringing the ball to ground.

He still has the magic touch where those handballs always seem to set up goals, he just needs to work on the basics and get those right and he'll bounce back very strongly.

I just remembered one other very handy forward who also recently left the game like big Johno. Doesn't seem to have hurt the cause down at doggy land (although i probably wouldn't be asking him for any kicking tips!). Might be able to assist in improving/helping out with sorting the whole forward line, including how we enter the 50, who leads where/when to make space out the back etc. Not sure if he's still contracted to them or available though. Pretty sure he no longer has a role there.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/former-cats-matthew-scarlett-and-cameron-mooney-link-with-western-bulldogs/story-e6frf9nx-1226517092466

and then there's the results of the hard work the Doggies have been putting in the last 4 years. Proving these things take time and the work needed is extensive across all areas (not just Jesse, not just our forward line). Roos & Co. have more than likely already laid some of these foundations (or at least i hope so). With a little more work and extra effort plus some additional recruits who knows, we might be only half a season or so behind.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/sport/afl/footy-experts/cameron-mooney-western-bulldogs-return-to-finals-has-been-four-years-coming/news-story/4e537ccf36c2a4808511b5ecb9aea6cd

[DubDee 20,667]

I've had enough

Delist him!

[Moonshadow 16,208]

31 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I've had enough

Delist him!

Nah, just drop him and put Pedo at ff

[Jaded No More 57,961]

Being down on form is not the same as having [censored] attitude. 

He is allowed to have poor games. Nobody is arguing that. He is not allowed to stop trying and spending his game time yelling at teammates and asking for frees. That is not acceptable for a senior footballer, no matter how young. 

If any other player in our team did that, everyone would be up in arms. But Hogan is apparently excuses because we are horrible and this only impacts him... Funny I don't see any other forward cracking the sads. Or our back line yelling at the midfield for letting so many balls come down their way.

[solly21 91]

Jesse Hogan wants out anyway I have been told that if Jesse Hogan could get out of his contract he would Leave at the end of this year & he wants to play for Fremantle so why don't we trade him a year early there is no point keeping him here if he doesn't want to be here. If he really wants to stay then he needs to sign a new contract before Trade Period. We Can't have this dragging on next year this will effect the team & this is last thing we need with Simon Goodwin in his first year.

[Moneider96 1,045]

To be honest, I would prefer it if we didn't play him for the rest of the year (or his contract). But I have already resigned myself to him leaving at seasons end

[Scipio 5,868]

Surely McCarthy is basically a lock to go to Fremantle at the end of this season. That makes it harder for them to sign Hogan too, doesn't it?

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

1 minute ago, Django said:

Surely McCarthy is basically a lock to go to Fremantle at the end of this season. That makes it harder for them to sign Hogan too, doesn't it?

Thats just something demons fans say to make themselves feel better. i would trade him this year, get some great compo and move on with building this club. he would know the effect on the club by delaying talks this year. he would know that him signing on would help the team and the sponsors/ members etc. he isnt invested in the future. get some picks etc and move on i say

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

3 minutes ago, Django said:

Surely McCarthy is basically a lock to go to Fremantle at the end of this season. That makes it harder for them to sign Hogan too, doesn't it?

Not with Pavich and Sandilands and a couple of other aging players almost certain to retire at seasons  end.

Edited April 5, 2016 by america de cali

[nutbean 8,837]

2 minutes ago, Munga said:

Thats just something demons fans say to make themselves feel better. i would trade him this year, get some great compo and move on with building this club. he would know the effect on the club by delaying talks this year. he would know that him signing on would help the team and the sponsors/ members etc. he isnt invested in the future. get some picks etc and move on i say

extraordinary - so because a player won't re-commit with 2 years left on a contract  you suggest he isn't invested in the future ?

How about we resign him at the end of the year instead ? Not an option for you ? 

  

[Dwight Schrute 16,786]

On 4/5/2016 at 5:36 PM, america de cali said:

Not with Pavich and Sandilands and a couple of other aging players almost certain to retire at seasons  end.

It makes it harder to find a trade, GWS will still demand at least one first rounder for CM, so if they want Hogan as well they better be willing to hand over some good players. 

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

11 minutes ago, nutbean said:

extraordinary - so because a player won't re-commit with 2 years left on a contract  you suggest he isn't invested in the future ?

How about we resign him at the end of the year instead ? Not an option for you ? 

  

if he wants to , yes. if he delays then trade him

[nutbean 8,837]

11 minutes ago, Munga said:

if he wants to , yes. if he delays then trade him

ok - I can half understand this  - at the end of this year - if we can't get him to sign before trade period concludes and the offer is compelling  - then maybe

47 minutes ago, Moneider96 said:

To be honest, I would prefer it if we didn't play him for the rest of the year (or his contract). But I have already resigned myself to him leaving at seasons end

This is just plain bizarre.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,259]

2 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

I've edited some posts to remove personal / family information.

Please respect the sensitivities around this.

Thanks

Pm the details to me please Grape so that I can backstab posters in the future.