Jesse Hogan and his kicking for goal (merged thread)

[Ricky P 757]

Over the next couple of weeks we're obviously going to hear about how goalkicking is the big flaw in Jesse's game and that he is the next Travis Cloke. In case this notion is put to you by any of your mates, please feel free to furnish them with the following information:

- Hogan is the 13th most accurate shot at goal since 1965 (of players who have had 50 or more shots at goal) - http://afltables.com/afl/stats/accuracy.html

- Hogan was a more accurate shot at goal than any of the players in the top 10 for the Coleman Medal last year - http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/melbourne-beginning-to-look-like-a-simon-goodwin-team-after-two-years-of-paul-roos/news-story/708c2557c2fa1de1bcc54cbb617ef788

Any journos who are reading demonland (we all know you get most of your 'scoops' from footy fan forums) should also feel free to use this information in any of the razor-sharp 'analysis' they provide for the footy public.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Yeah yeah, but the point some on here have made is that it is not a great action and could nail more goals if it was smooth and straight. Even WCE Kennedy has reaped the benifits of straightening his up. Jesse's field kicks look natural and fluid and rarely miss their target, his set shots look like they intend to be done on his left.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Moonshadow

[btdemon 482]

14 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

Over the next couple of weeks we're obviously going to hear about how goalkicking is the big flaw in Jesse's game and that he is the next Travis Cloke. In case this notion is put to you by any of your mates, please feel free to furnish them with the following information:

- Hogan is the 13th most accurate shot at goal since 1965 (of players who have had 50 or more shots at goal) - http://afltables.com/afl/stats/accuracy.html

- Hogan was a more accurate shot at goal than any of the players in the top 10 for the Coleman Medal last year - http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/melbourne-beginning-to-look-like-a-simon-goodwin-team-after-two-years-of-paul-roos/news-story/708c2557c2fa1de1bcc54cbb617ef788

Any journos who are reading demonland (we all know you get most of your 'scoops' from footy fan forums) should also feel free to use this information in any of the razor-sharp 'analysis' they provide for the footy public.

This is true. The commentators yesterday obviously didn't follow closely enough last year to notice that Jesse was very accurate from anywhere inside 40m. But I also saw yesterday that he was more hesitant than normal and appeared to have the yips. Apparently some work was done last year to straighten out his approach. It seemed to work for a couple of weeks. I think it is time for the specialist coaches to do some more work. We don't want him developing the yips as a part of his regular mentality. It seemed that everything was off yesterday. His normally sure hands and his body positioning as well. It might just have been one of those days.

[Redjacket 756]

His dropping of easy marks was equally as worrying. Second year blues?

[What 18,810]

Just now, Mr. White said:

His dropping of easy marks was equally as worrying. Second year blues?

 

I remember him dropping some sitters in last years NAB Cup too.  Cant remember him dropping one when the real stuff started.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

His runup is too long. Simple as that. Gives him too much latitude to get his speed and balance right. He needs to kick off about 5 paces.

[P-man 13,366]

Mountain out of a molehill. I enjoy Dunstall's commentary but he leaps all over any set shot routine that isn't textbook perfect. He's done it before with Jesse, only he has slotted the goal so he's had to concede that it works for him. Yesterday, because he was having an off day, the routine was all wrong and needed to change.

The second set shot wasn't that bad from memory. It was off line but it was straight.

[Gator 17,306]

Every Dees supporter knows he is very accurate from 35 metres, but he struggles from beyond 40 and can barely make the distance at 50.  It's a technique issue.  He's a lovely field kick and his ridiculous runup should have been addressed over the preseason.

[Lucifers Hero 39,612]

The Ox got a bit carried away with this: Former Melbourne forward David Schwarz has hit out at young gun Jesse Hogan, calling his kicking for a goal "a disgrace" and saying that it could cost the young forward "$400,000 a year"

 http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/melbourne-demons-jesse-hogans-goalkicking-a-disgrace-david-schwarz-20160313-gni1ys.html#ixzz42q0gR2je

 

Disgrace?  Really?  Sure Jesse's technique could be more effective but to think it will affect his contract is a bit of OTT hyperbole from the Ox!

Edited March 14, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[chook fowler 19,447]

He should take a good hard look at himself!

Edited March 14, 2016 by chook fowler

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

His last 4 steps are all that matters, and they are straight and pretty fluid so I couldn't give two rats about doing the stutter. His kicking technique in general for field kicking is pretty average, but it is effective but it is why his range is around 45m and will not consistently kick 50m. 

 

It is the biggest mountain out of a molehill, let him stutter and do what is comfortable as it has clearly been working. 

If I recall correctly his kicking at juniors was sub par but his set shot last year was well above average. Let it be

[bluey 1,090]

Been at the club four years and can't even kick a football, and his attitude is starting to appear Nick Kyriosesque, someone needs to show him how to kick, and to pull his head in, the contest is not over when you spill the mark.

[Ted Lasso 19,334]

His kicking is normally very good, but when it's as complicated as it is, if he's having days like yesterday when nothing is working, it's going to be a worry.

 

Jesse will be fine, only a couple of weeks ago against Port he was clunking monster marks and kicking well

 

just a bad day, like TMAC had against the dogs, better now then during the season

[Webber 10,454]

10 minutes ago, bluey said:

Been at the club four years and can't even kick a football, and his attitude is starting to appear Nick Kyriosesque, someone needs to show him how to kick, and to pull his head in, the contest is not over when you spill the mark.

He's a long way from being the utter child that Kyrgios is, but his bitching an moaning yesterday when things weren't going his way was nothing short of infantile. He's a great talent, but that was very hard to watch, and worst of all for a team developing a team-first ethos, singularly attention seeking. I presume he'll be told to pull his head in. 

[chook fowler 19,447]

The difference is Hogan was filthy with himself. Kyrgios' ego tells him it is everybody else that is at fault so he lashes out like a spoil brat.

[Emerald 1,744]

I noticed yesterday and at the intra-club game that when Hogan gets frustrated his performance drops.I assume opposition clubs will try and exploit this weakness.He needs to find a technique to anchor his brainwaves from peaking out.During both of the said games,Hogan came good in the last quarter so he  needs to analyze what it is that brings him out of the slump and be mindful enough to employ it as soon as things aren't going right.

[P-man 13,366]

I don't mind Kyrgios. Another mountain out of molehill situation that one. Every tennis player arcs up at the umpire at some point. Murray does it all the time. Kyrgios does it and it's the main story out of the match. We have a preoccupation with bashing the ever living stuffing out of our sports stars. Kyrgios bites back. I say good on him.

Hogan will convert his next few set shots and this will once again fade into the background as a talking point. 

 

[daisycutter 29,605]

44 minutes ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

His last 4 steps are all that matters, and they are straight and pretty fluid so I couldn't give two rats about doing the stutter. His kicking technique in general for field kicking is pretty average, but it is effective but it is why his range is around 45m and will not consistently kick 50m. 

 

It is the biggest mountain out of a molehill, let him stutter and do what is comfortable as it has clearly been working. 

If I recall correctly his kicking at juniors was sub par but his set shot last year was well above average. Let it be

why let it be? and he certainly doesn't give the impression he's comfortable

everyone can and should improve themselves, especially in such a professional sport where 1%ers make the difference

[Deespicable 2,726]

53 minutes ago, bluey said:

Been at the club four years and can't even kick a football, and his attitude is starting to appear Nick Kyriosesque, someone needs to show him how to kick, and to pull his head in, the contest is not over when you spill the mark.

Ok, so if he deems the contest is over when he spills a mark, how did he kick it off the ground so quickly for a goal or snag one from 40m after the ball spilled his way?

Jesse is what every club needs - a star - and that means he won't do all the team things all the time and he'll drop the odd mark and be shitted off with himself like he was on Sunday - but you wear this because he can do the miraculous and is arrogant and what great side of the past did not have a healthy does of arrogance.

As to his kicking, his stutter run-up was also under the microscope last year and once it was brought to his attention he worked on his routine and fixed it. Jesse is a very accurate kick, he's just not a thumping kick like Neiter. He'll be embarrassed by his set shots on Sunday and will solve it by the time we play GWS. 

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

22 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

why let it be? and he certainly doesn't give the impression he's comfortable

everyone can and should improve themselves, especially in such a professional sport where 1%ers make the difference

Because the stutter does not effect his result, clearly seen last year. If they want to fix his technique to straighten the movement of his kicking leg and his ball drop then so be it. I remember when he had his first season at Casey, they worked hard to change his run up and it made his kicking worse for a patch of 3-4 games and then he reverted back to this style. A lot of the time it's about what is natural, suckling has a horrid kicking style around his body swinging his leg in an odd fashion but the result works. Same with Hogan, his field kicking and goal kicking are solid yet if he misses people blame his run up and technique but if he kicks above 60% like he did last year then I don't see the point in changing it. 

[Tony Tea 2,806]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

I remember him dropping some sitters in last years NAB Cup too.  Cant remember him dropping one when the real stuff started.

I remember Hogan "dropping" several marks in the Carlton and Essendon games when Gawn kept spoiling him. Although, Hogan may have had a broken bone in his hand for the Carlton game.

[daisycutter 29,605]

Just now, Mad_Melbourne said:

Because the stutter does not effect his result, clearly seen last year. If they want to fix his technique to straighten the movement of his kicking leg and his ball drop then so be it. I remember when he had his first season at Casey, they worked hard to change his run up and it made his kicking worse for a patch of 3-4 games and then he reverted back to this style. A lot of the time it's about what is natural, suckling has a horrid kicking style around his body swinging his leg in an odd fashion but the result works. Same with Hogan, his field kicking and goal kicking are solid yet if he misses people blame his run up and technique but if he kicks above 60% like he did last year then I don't see the point in changing it. 

well let's just disagree

and btw, no forward should ever be satisfied with 60%. the objective should be 100%. always room for continuous improvement and it doesn't have to be major improvements, just lots of tiny improvements at a time.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

well let's just disagree

and btw, no forward should ever be satisfied with 60%. the objective should be 100%. always room for continuous improvement and it doesn't have to be major improvements, just lots of tiny improvements at a time.

I understand the goal to achieve 100% but it is highly unlikely that a player will get that and statistically his set shot was nearly elite last year I think and that's why it is one of those issues that gets blown out of proportion. 

I want him to improve but I see no major issue of his last four steps are straight, his ball drop is the main thing that is annoys me. Regardless, Hogans kicking is not the issue people make it out to be

[sue 9,099]

46 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Ok, so if he deems the contest is over when he spills a mark, how did he kick it off the ground so quickly for a goal or snag one from 40m after the ball spilled his way?

...

Yes he got that one. But there was another one where the ball spilt towards the boundary line and he expressed his frustration but didn't chase it.  Probably could not have got to it, but certainly wasn't going to get to it unless he tried.   I am a bit worried that all the hype is going to his head. Let's hope not.

[chook fowler 19,447]

All this tells me is that Hogan is a competitive beast who cares about his performance. In the not too distant past we had a series of players who kept repeating the same mistakes and looked like they couldn't give a crap. I know what I prefer.