Roos vs Neeld - The Facts

[Miracle 89]

I never post but I feel I have to reply to the criticism of Roos. The general public and media can be excused as they don't know the facts, but the MFC supporters really frustrate me as they should know better.

The ultimate responsibility for player development and recruiting rests with the coach. If you disagree with that then you should stop reading now.

In the two years that Neeld was coach, he brought 17 players on to MFC List. Viney was father/son so he gets no credit for him. He also gets no credit for Hogan as any coach would have traded for him in the same circumstances.

Players, apart from Talls, start to hit their peak in year 3 and 4 so lets look at the players Neeld brought in that are in year 3 and 4 now. From the 15 players(excluding Viney/Hogan) Neeld brought in, five remain on MFC list and only Dawes gets a regular game. From player development he gets a 0 out of 10 and the same goes for recruiting. There are no players he brought in that will develop into regular senior players(yes I have made a call on Toumpas)

When Roos took over he had no emerging players on the list, a low win/loss and 50% percentage. Under his two years he has brought in 19 players. I believe three players Clisby(gone) Riley and Hunt will not make it. Of the 16 players some are already regulars (Cross, Tyson, Vince,Salem,Garlett, Lumumba,Brayshaw) and ten will become regular senior players. That's 16 out of 19(you may argue the number is lower) but its way more than the 1 from 15 under Neeld. Of the 19 players Roos brought in, this week will make it 16 that have played at least one game.

You must remember where we were and how far we have come before going off at Roos. In 2017 the new coach will have emerging 3 and 4 year old players which is vital for further success. Roos did not have that luxury.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Here here!

To many supporters on here are to quick to jump on Rooses back.

I think as supporters we need to forget about how long it has been since we played finals.

As hard as it is we need to act as if this is our 1st rebuild not 3rd.

If you do that you can definitely see we are developing well with Roos as our coach.

We get blinded and angry as supporters because we have gone through this so often as a club in the past 8 years but Its time to let our past go and look towards the future.

The future is bright for the MFC!

[Chris 2,892]

You forgot Georgiou. He didn't make it and was bought in by Roos and Dean Kent was bought in by Neeld, so that makes one for Neeld. Otherwise I agree with your post.

[stuie 7,374]

Errrrr isn't this about recruiting rather than coaching?

Just saying....

[pineapple dee 2,892]

We get upset about what we perceive to be poor results but rarely make a measured judgement based on this type of analysis. It's why when we turn the corner, many will still say "How the hell is this improvement occuring" Thanks for your input Miracle

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

The fact we dont lose by 80 points plus every week is a good indication of our improvement

[Miracle 89]

You forgot Georgiou. He didn't make it and was bought in by Roos and Dean Kent was bought in by Neeld, so that makes one for Neeld. Otherwise I agree with your post.

Yes I did. But also forgot about Vanders so one more for Roos

[Miracle 89]

Errrrr isn't this about recruiting rather than coaching?

Just saying....

Have you ever stopped and thought that poor player development might have been the reason and not poor player recruiting.

[Chris 2,892]

Errrrr isn't this about recruiting rather than coaching?

Just saying....

I don't think our recruiting has been as bad as it looks, most of the disappointment comes down the development of the player once recruited, this is where the coach comes in and where Roos and his team are doing well, and where Neeld and others failed miserably.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,789]

Just because Viney was a father/son pick doesn't mean he shouldn't be counted. A decision was still needed as to whether to use a draft selection on him. And I can't see why Hogan is being excluded. By not including Viney and Hogan you seem to be using selective data when there is no need to. The premise you make seems sound, even with Viney and Hogan added to Neeld's score.

But in defence of Neeld, he was also trying to correct the recruiting and development failings of the administration that preceded him. He might have failed, but at least he tried.

[stuie 7,374]

Have you ever stopped and thought that poor player development might have been the reason and not poor player recruiting.

Don't get me wrong, not standing up for Neeld, no one was happier when he was sent packing.

But you're calling your post "the facts", when a lot of it is opinion:

"He also gets no credit for Hogan as any coach would have traded for him in the same circumstances."

"Riley and Hunt will not make it"

"ten will become regular senior players"

What about Stretch? Is he included in those numbers when he's a "father/son so he gets no credit for him".

Neeld was around 2 years, Roos has been around about the same, but you're comparing 3-4 year development?

I like the sentiment in your post, and I agree our development appears better, but there's not really many "facts" in there.

[jnrmac 20,090]

So who is responsible for the 8 goal to 1 deficits we have seen in the last 3 weeks?

[mrtwister 652]

Don't want to hijack the thread but where do you think we would be if we stuck with Bailey but made all the front office/personnel (Misson/Jackson/Bartlett) changes that we have to this day?

I think the Bulldogs are pretty much doing what Bailey was trying to do, only 4 years afterwards.

[rjay 24,929]

Don't want to hijack the thread but where do you think we would be if we stuck with Bailey but made all the front office/personnel (Misson/Jackson/Bartlett) changes that we have to this day?

I think the Bulldogs are pretty much doing what Bailey was trying to do, only 4 years afterwards.

Start another thread on this 'twister'...it's worth a look.

[mrtwister 652]

Start another thread on this 'twister'...it's worth a look.

Done

[DubDee 25,886]

Wow so Roos is a better coach than Neeld? terrific.

Neeld I assume, has the worst record of any AFL coach ever.

[dazzledavey36 54,947]

Lol even im a better coach then Neeld

[pitmaster 3,561]

No question recruiting is better under Roos but Miracle is unfair not crediting Neeld for Hogan.

Why? Because he could have drafted for someone to have an immediate impact, but instead he hampered his own first year prospects by warehousing Hogan.

Credit where's its due.

[Jaded No More 68,923]

I'm really not sure what the point of this thread is.

Find me one poster on here who said Roos isnt miles ahead of Neeld?

Neeld was an unmitigated disaster that nearly ruined our club. To say Roos is better than him is like saying your 1972 Hyundai is worse than your 2015 BMW.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Jaded

[Slartibartfast 17,297]

The ultimate responsibility for player development and recruiting rests with the coach. If you disagree with that then you should stop reading now.

Just for completeness, can you tell me what the following do? (and apologies, I didn't stop reading)

Football Department

- Paul Roos - Senior Coach

- Todd Viney - Manager Player Personnel

- Josh Mahoney - Manager Football Operations

- Simon Goodwin - Senior Assistant Coach

- Ben Mathews - Midfield Coach

- Jade Rawlings - Backline Coach

- Daniel McPherson - Forward line Coach

- Brendan McCartney - Devlopment and Strategy Coach

- Brett Allison - Head of Development

- Brad Miller - Development Coach

- Shannon Byrnes - Welfare and Development Coach

- Justin Plapp - Casey Scorpions Coach

- Jason Taylor - National Recruting Manager

- Kelly O’Donnell - Pro scouting

- Tim Lamb - National Recruiting Officer

- David Misson - Elite Performance Manager

- Robert Jackson - Strength & Conditioning Manager

- Charles Allen - Load Manager

- Alex Sakadjian - Sport Science Co-ordinator & Rehabilitation Coach

Now if you're talking about the Westminster system of "ultimate responsibility" then it's not Roos but probably McLardy/Bartlett. If you think the coach knows more about draftees than the recruiting manager you live in an alternate universe.

It's a team effort Miracle. Your premise is wrong but you've nailed it with your conclusion. Roos is a better coach than Neeld and we are in a better spot than we were 2 years ago. Congrats.

The question of course is "are we where we should be"? If you can show me the "facts" about that I'd appreciate it.

[Miracle 89]

Just for completeness, can you tell me what the following do? (and apologies, I didn't stop reading)

Football Department

- Paul Roos - Senior Coach

- Todd Viney - Manager Player Personnel

- Josh Mahoney - Manager Football Operations

- Simon Goodwin - Senior Assistant Coach

- Ben Mathews - Midfield Coach

- Jade Rawlings - Backline Coach

- Daniel McPherson - Forward line Coach

- Brendan McCartney - Devlopment and Strategy Coach

- Brett Allison - Head of Development

- Brad Miller - Development Coach

- Shannon Byrnes - Welfare and Development Coach

- Justin Plapp - Casey Scorpions Coach

- Jason Taylor - National Recruting Manager

- Kelly O’Donnell - Pro scouting

- Tim Lamb - National Recruiting Officer

- David Misson - Elite Performance Manager

- Robert Jackson - Strength & Conditioning Manager

- Charles Allen - Load Manager

- Alex Sakadjian - Sport Science Co-ordinator & Rehabilitation Coach

Now if you're talking about the Westminster system of "ultimate responsibility" then it's not Roos but probably McLardy/Bartlett. If you think the coach knows more about draftees than the recruiting manager you live in an alternate universe.

It's a team effort Miracle. Your premise is wrong but you've nailed it with your conclusion. Roos is a better coach than Neeld and we are in a better spot than we were 2 years ago. Congrats.

The question of course is "are we where we should be"? If you can show me the "facts" about that I'd appreciate it.

You only read what you want to read and ignore what is actually written. Whats the saying "never argue with a drunk".

[praha 11,240]

You forgot Georgiou. He didn't make it and was bought in by Roos and Dean Kent was bought in by Neeld, so that makes one for Neeld. Otherwise I agree with your post.

Georgiou was a filler. Who else are you going to get with a can of drink and a pack of ciggies as pay?

Anyway, Roos and Neeld aren't all that dissimilar. Similar vision, similar intend to gut and change the team, similar defensive mindset, similar standards of accountability for the playing group.

Roos just has the resume. I doubt that had Neeld remained as coach up until now we'd be any worse than where we sit. Dare I say that the stability might have seen us actually rise above where we are now.

Edited August 28, 2015 by praha

[rjay 24,929]

Georgiou was a filler. Who else are you going to get with a can of drink and a pack of ciggies as pay?

Anyway, Roos and Neeld aren't all that dissimilar. Similar vision, similar intend to gut and change the team, similar defensive mindset, similar standards of accountability for the playing group.

Roos just has the resume. I doubt that had Neeld remained as coach up until now we'd be any worse than where we sit. Dare I say that the stability might have seen us actually rise above where we are now.

...probably in Tasmania.

[Dr. Mubutu 853]

Roos just has the resume. I doubt that had Neeld remained as coach up until now we'd be any worse than where we sit. Dare I say that the stability might have seen us actually rise above where we are now.

Yes we would.

Roos has the name, which allowed him to land a few deals and players that we otherwise would not have been able to. It also allowed us to limp to 4 wins in 2014 without attracting too much attention to another poor season.

You may be right that they aren't too dissimilar (I'd actually agree), but Roos has the industry on his side, which has really been invaluable.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Dr. Mubutu

[monoccular 17,431]

You only read what you want to read and ignore what is actually written. Whats the saying "never argue with a drunk".

Do we really need to ring Robbo into this thread?