Play on, Adam. Play on

[Chris 2,892]

That is wrong though So you are saying that if I choose to boo him, I'm a racist because others are? That is exactly what is wrong with this whole saga.

No, I am saying you are supporting racists, because that is what you are doing. If you are comfortable supporting racists and bigots then feel free to boo Goodes, if you prefer to not be labelled as such then don't.

[Moonshadow 17,577]

How many of you people of the runaway Goodes bandwagon put up Xmas lights and decorations armed with the knowledge your offending someone, or is that different?

No. It's not the same, and if you can't figure out why it's probably not worth the effort to explain it to you

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I suppose then all unlikeable footballers get booed relentlessly from start to finish.

Like Stevie J. He gets booed relentlessly from start to finish.... he doesn't? Just here and there?

What about Milne. He was booed relentlessly from start to finish .... wait, he wasn't?

Alan Didak? No?

That guy from Fremantle ... the tagger who gave everyone the sh!ts ... Josh someone? ... not booed relentlessly?

Matthew Lloyd. Olympic gold for diving. Booed relentlessly?

All those players got boos here and there ... but mostly were sledged and cat-called by the crowd ... but not booed relentlessly from start to finish.

This idea that unlikeable footballers get booed relentlessly from start to finish doesn't seem to hold much water.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

That is wrong though So you are saying that if I choose to boo him, I'm a racist because others are? That is exactly what is wrong with this whole saga.

He's saying you are encouraging the racists because they think you're just like them.

[Guest]

It truly is astonishing how dysfunctional the modern Left's definition of free speech is.

There is not "some form" of free speech. There is either free speech, or there is not. When you restrict it, you cause more harm than could possibly arise if you were to permit it.

And I would suggest that the modern right's definition of free speech mostly applies to it's god given right to insult people that it doesn't like/agree with but heaven forfend if they are the beneficiaries of some free speech back. It's a case of we can dole out as much vitriol and bile as we like but if one our victims bite back? Convene a royal commission I say! Or better yet, a new set of Nuremberg trials.

For more info on this topic, see: Bolt, Andrew.

Ted Fidge summed it up pretty well. If there was a minority advocating that people receive punitive measures doled out by the state for their booing then I would say it would be unworkable. As a private organization, the AFL is well within their rights to spell out the expectations concerning fan behavior and do. The players union as a collective have stated their disapproval of the booing. No one is sending the jackboots in and no one's freedom of speech is being crushed. As far as I can tell, the AFLPA, the coaches and the Sydney Football club are exercising their right to freedom of expression.

[Lucifers Hero 39,041]

I do not find it useful to use the labels 'racist' and 'non-racist' as I do not know a person's context nor their true values.

Maybe the Swans President erred in connecting booing and being racist because not everyone who booed would be nor see themselves as one. Would that be a cop out by him. I don't know. He would have been a lot less inflammatory.

What I do know is that while such labels are being bandied about and used as insults it will be difficult to objectively see where Adam Goodes is come from.

He has only a handful of games left.

Can we move on from the famous Aussie pass-time of bringing down a 'tall poppy' to the wonderful Aussie virtue of giving him a 'fair go' and ensuring his last few games are enjoyable for everyone and giving him a fitting, Champion's farewell.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

If we look past race issues for a second, what we will find is that this, at the least is a major case of bullying. You have a guy who has clearly stated he doesn't appreciate the constant booing and is feeling ostracised because of it, and that should be enough to make people realise that if it is affecting his mental health that much, then maybe people should just fall in line and accept that enough is enough. Just a little bit of humility needs to be exercised I think. That's my take on it anyway.

[sue 9,058]

What boggles my mind is people saying he is only constantly booed because he is a sook/diver/cheat and it has nothing to do with his race. But when it is pointed out that lots of players are sooks/divers/cheats yet don't get such treatment, they say it is because of his actions related to his race.

So I am still waiting for someone who thinks this has nothing to do with his race but just with Goodes' actions to tell me that he would have been subject to constant booing if he was an outspoken advocate of some controversial social issue other than race relations.

I bet he wouldn't even get booed if he was an advocate of euthanasia for anyone over the age of 65 and had told a few old people in the crowd to shuffle off. (Ageing Demon supporters beware.....)

[FireOath 290]

I do not find it useful to use the labels 'racist' and 'non-racist' as I do not know a person's context nor their true values.

Maybe the Swans President erred in connecting booing and being racist because not everyone who booed would be nor see themselves as one. Would that be a cop out by him. I don't know. He would have been a lot less inflammatory.

For the record, I didn't "boo" and don't "boo" in general at a game, but this post pretty much sums it up for me. There are many things that could have been dealt with better in this whole situation by the Swans President, the media, the crowd and Adam Goodes himself.

It has gotten to the stage where this whole thing is actually over the top.

[Redleg 40,361]

I HOPE THE BOOING OF ADAM STOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is my hope. Here is my opinion for what it is worth.

To simply label everyone who boos at Adam a racist, is disingenuous and blatantly wrong.

To hold this view, apparently in the eyes of some, now condemns me to also being labelled a racist.

This has gone completely off the rails, because of the views of fanatics, who cannot see any other view than the one they believe in.

The Swans' president's statement is nothing short of outrageous, inflammatory and totally unhelpful in the situation.

He could have and should have, simply called for an end to the booing as it was hurting Adam and his family, without playing the race card.

Booing has always gone on in football.

Carl Ditterich was booed his whole career, was that because of anti German feeljng? Dipper was booed, anti Italian? etc etc.

All are booed because of how they perform on the ground, or off the ground, if it gets into the public eye.

No other indigenous player is being booed.

Adam was not booed for his whole career until a few things happened, he started sliding into players and hurting them, he started playing for frees, he made a stupid young girl the face of racism nationally, he became very political off the field, with what some see as divisive comments. Then a spear throwing war dance, aimed at the crowd, for which the AFL praised him. Remember that a raised finger to the crowd by most players is an automatic fine.

Why is it not possible that some people now don't like him or disagree with him and show that by booing?

It is certainly IMO far more likely, than he is the one player in the AFL, large sections of the crowd now want to single out in racist behaviour.

All that said, I hope the booing stops and he continues to play, as that is the best thing for football and I think, for him.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Redleg

[Mach5 4,709]

Smokescreen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he's recieved a grand total of 11 frees this year.

Wrong, because it's irrelevant.

He might not win them, but he plays for them. Obviously.

And it does him no favours.

He's not alone, but you can't behave like that and then act like a paragon of virtue off-field, and not expect some form of derision.

[dee-luded 2,959]

An article by Tracey Holmes has prompted me to start this thread of support for Adam Goodes.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=new_post&f=2

Last night I watched the Magarook Football show. I am a fan of Goodes and support his stand but I never fully understood the issue. From the show I learnt:

- Until 1967 Indigenous Australians could not vote.

- Until 1967 Indigenous Australians came under the 'Fauna and Flora' Act. It pains me to even try and tell you what that means. But it means they were legally considered animals. I hang my head in shame over that. I now fully understand why words like 'ape', 'zoo', 'king kong' are so devastating for them.

- Indigenous Australians are still not recognised in our Constitution (this is in the process of being remedied).

- They feel racism differently to that of migrants to Australia because Australia is their Homeland and colonisation was forced upon them. (Before you jump on me for supporting this, I am the child of European immigrant parents so I know exactly how racism feels, for as long as I can remember even to this day. Racism is racism but I can now see how it is felt differently by Indigenous Australians.)

- Adams Goodes did not call Australia Day, Invasion Day. Check the transcript.

- Adam Goodes did not vilify a 13 year old. In fact he did the opposite. Listen to his comments.

Nev Jetta was on the show and he said the team had something lined up to show their support but couldn't say as they were discussing it with the AFL. I look forward to my team proudly supporting Adam. I support my team in this and this thread is to support Adam Goodes. If you can't do that you might choose to refrain from posting.

The mods may shortly close this thread and I will understand why.

In the meantime, I agree with Tracey Holmes' call: Play on, Adam. Play on!

haven't read the article, but I've been bewildered about the booing this year, of Goodsey.

I think its truly ignorant, & I'm sure it isn't about his footy, so can only be about his stands on issues... hang in there Goodsey, & let the good people come to get your back mate.

don't chuck it in Aussies don't throw in the towell. and it will not help your 'Indig' cousins, as an example of how to do things.

I want you to keep playing, & playing well, Go Goodsey !!!

[old dee 23,526]

Thanks for that Redleg a little sane comment at last.

[praha 11,217]

Sorry to do this to you Praha, but there is no unfettered right to free speech. That's why laws of defamation exist. And to probably misquote some judge somewhere, you can't just yell "fire" in a crowded theatre, either. Nevertheless, if we want to have a society where we can have as much free speech as possible, society has to accept the responsibility that comes with that.

I also note with some irony that the physical act of booing is probably the least articulate form of speech ever.

There is a natural right to free speech. We don't need law or a document to tell us to speak. "I think therefore I am"

Free speech embodies the natural right to live freely without others infringing on your right to do so. Defamation is an attack on your morality and therefore it has the capacity to hurt you. It's an infringement. You can say and do as you wish so long as you don't hurt others. "Feeling" hurt doesn't count, because emotion is subjective and relative.

Free speech doesn't mean I can say anything I like without repercussions.

Primarily, it means I can say things without being incarcerated because someone else doesn't agree.

It also means I can say anything I like provided I don't incite people to violence.

It also means I can say anything I like provided I don't lead others into harm (physical, reputational, financial).

It's not open slather like many seem to think.

Of course it's not. This is what I mean by the definition being "dysfunctional". Free speech is a product of a free society, one that permits individuals to do as they please so long as they don't hurt others. Free speech fits within this.

And I would suggest that the modern right's definition of free speech mostly applies to it's god given right to insult people that it doesn't like/agree with but heaven forfend if they are the beneficiaries of some free speech back. It's a case of we can dole out as much vitriol and bile as we like but if one our victims bite back? Convene a royal commission I say! Or better yet, a new set of Nuremberg trials.

For more info on this topic, see: Bolt, Andrew.

Ted Fidge summed it up pretty well. If there was a minority advocating that people receive punitive measures doled out by the state for their booing then I would say it would be unworkable. As a private organization, the AFL is well within their rights to spell out the expectations concerning fan behavior and do. The players union as a collective have stated their disapproval of the booing. No one is sending the jackboots in and no one's freedom of speech is being crushed. As far as I can tell, the AFLPA, the coaches and the Sydney Football club are exercising their right to freedom of expression.

You're not wrong.

Free speech embodies the right to say, the right to listen, the right to turn away, and the right not to fund one's antagonists. The AFL, player's union, they are all well within their right to clamp down and stop the booing. By definition only government can censor, because anyone that is stopped from booing at a game can easily just go and boo and let their feelings be heard elsewhere.

Either way, as soon as the government gets involved to define speech in a non-subjective way (18c, for example), I begin to worry. I don't want to give bigots a platform. I just trust society enough to shout down those we feel compromise the benchmark we've set for each other.

People are saying Tony Abbott took too long to come out and condemn the booing. I don't know why. This is an issue that has been covered and dealt with, debated and discussed by the general public. What difference does a politician's make?

True leaders are those among us, people that empower and inspire. Goodes is one. Some might disagree. That's their right. But no one with the power to take away our rights should ever be held up as a leader. That includes both sides of politics.

Edited July 31, 2015 by praha

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Telling twitter exchange in this article. (just before the end) Frightening how reactionary this country is becoming.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-31/cassidy-bishop-goodes/6660554

[dee-luded 2,959]

The ignorance with the topic is shameful and galling.

I think you've made an excellent contribution.

Any understanding of social psych - and I mean 2nd year uni level - leaves no doubt as to what the booing is and represents. That people justify it as their right, or worse, that being criticised for it suggests some sort of reverse racism are just deluded tools. Get an education and some flippin' humility.

It is also sickening that middle class white men sook about being called names. I am ashamed that my country is so backward. It seems that tolerance is a virtue except when you have to exercise it. FMD.

lessons have to be learnt constantly, as an ongoing process. our nation is coming to a point in the road about how this land was taken from its original inhabitants, without so much as an excuse me.

we need to learn our Indigenous history in our schools, as told by our indigenous ancestors. then an appreciation may be learnt & may grow.

.......... its just not good enough to have leaders of this country, white men of British Heritage, denying the Koori history in our classrooms.

.

[Mach5 4,709]

Love this thread.

Modern Australia, now courtesy of the right (Howard, Hanson, Abbott, Brandis, Bolt, Devine, Alan Jones), allows bigotry as some form of freedom of speech. Still can't work out why the "Haka" is so great, but the emerging Aboriginal war dance is too provocative.

Keating predicted Howard would send us back to the 50's. The white-picket fences, flip toasters, etc.... Many supporters of the right suggest that 1996 was a turning point for our finances. I say it was a turning point for every other aspect of Australian life.

Don't know how this Goodes thing will stop. Sydney supporters throwing eggs might be a bit too far. Maybe standing up at the footy for 10 seconds when someone behind you boos him, might hit the spot a little better.

My prediction is that the AFL/Sydney will use a dead-rubber to stage a total walk-off by players and officials. It will be a win-win without too much damage, and will be a ratings bonanza for the network.

I don't think its that difficult.

One is an expected traditional war dance performed as a gesture directly toward the opposing team prior to the beginning of a match.

The other was a totally unexpected aggressive non-traditional act performed directly toward opposition supporters, in a way that was certain to incite the crowd.

I don't really have a problem with it, but at the time it made me sit up and say "interesting decision by a bloke who seems to not enjoy the crowd booing at him."

[Mach5 4,709]

If we look past race issues for a second, what we will find is that this, at the least is a major case of bullying. You have a guy who has clearly stated he doesn't appreciate the constant booing and is feeling ostracised because of it, and that should be enough to make people realise that if it is affecting his mental health that much, then maybe people should just fall in line and accept that enough is enough. Just a little bit of humility needs to be exercised I think. That's my take on it anyway.

That's it.

He may be a [censored], but it is immature pack-mentality bullying, and it should stop.

[sue 9,058]

I HOPE THE BOOING OF ADAM STOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is my hope. Here is my opinion for what it is worth.

...

While a lot of what you wrote is true, I don't think it adds up. I think you are missing the essential point Redleg. (Yes, Goodes' could have made mistakes - for example I think his war dance was a bad mistake, though I can understand why he did it).

I'd love to see you reaction to the point I raised earlier:

I bet he wouldn't even get booed if he was an advocate of euthanasia for anyone over the age of 65 and had told a few old people in the crowd to shuffle off.

There is more to this than his personal behaviour.

[Chris 2,892]

Adam was not booed for his whole career until a few things happened, he started sliding into players and hurting them, he started playing for frees, he made a stupid young girl the face of racism nationally, he became very political off the field, with what some see as divisive comments. Then a spear throwing war dance, aimed at the crowd, for which the AFL praised him. Remember that a raised finger to the crowd by most players is an automatic fine.

Why is it not possible that some people now don't like him or disagree with him and show that by booing?

It is certainly IMO far more likely, than he is the one player in the AFL, large sections of the crowd now want to single out in racist behaviour.

All that said, I hope the booing stops and he continues to play, as that is the best thing for football and I think, for him.

So you agree he is boo'd because people disagree with his stance on Indigenous issues and don't like that he points out the truth yet this isn't racially motivated?

Sorry, can't see the logic.

[mo64 5,597]

Can someone who watched the game last week tell me whether the booing of Goodes started from the 1st minute, or whether it was a reaction to him getting a free kick for staging, and later on not being penalised for a push in the back, and subsequent goal.

The booing of Goodes had stopped over previous weeks, so maybe it was these onfield incidents that reignited the issue.

[hardtack 10,433]

I don't think its that difficult.

One is an expected traditional war dance performed as a gesture directly toward the opposing team prior to the beginning of a match.

The other was a totally unexpected aggressive non-traditional act performed directly toward opposition supporters, in a way that was certain to incite the crowd.

I don't really have a problem with it, but at the time it made me sit up and say "interesting decision by a bloke who seems to not enjoy the crowd booing at him."

You mean incite a crowd that had already been booing him non-stop from the opening bounce??

[hardtack 10,433]

Can someone who watched the game last week tell me whether the booing of Goodes started from the 1st minute, or whether it was a reaction to him getting a free kick for staging, and later on not being penalised for a push in the back, and subsequent goal.

The booing of Goodes had stopped over previous weeks, so maybe it was these onfield incidents that reignited the issue.

The booing of Goodes HAD NOT stopped over the past weeks at all. It had not even subsided... if anything it had become worse as the media storm seemed to inflame rather than pacify the offenders.

[thevil1 421]

I've boo'd Goodes plenty of times over the years..... Dog acts like slamming taggers Dunn & Godfrey in the back with no penalties awarded by umpires, unlike what Roos said the other day I do think he has been a sook & stager on field for his whole career. He's also been well looked after by the umpires & AFL in that time also. That being said he's been a gun player & I would've loved him at the MFC all these years........

Couldn't give a [censored] about all this latest saga, I have no interest in booing him other than if he is a dog against one of our players on field again. But I do think a lot of the negative sentiment against Goodes at present is a snap back from many fans regarding political correctness which many people feel has gotten out of control & Goodes has become the poster child for it sadly. I don't think he asked for any of this & doesn't deserve any more being singled out. Maybe he is a bit too sensitive about it all, maybe I'm not sensitive enough about it, but surely everyone can give it a rest for a while & agree to disagree. If you can't at least give it a rest & leave the bloke alone at this point then the booing says more about you than Adam.

[P-man 13,366]

I agree with a lot of RL's post. This is a multi-layered issue and the myopic view that it is outright racism is simply wrong.

That said, the booing needs to stop.

Whether or not you see validity to it, Goodes is interpreting this as racial vilification. With some who are partaking in it, he is correct.

If you boo a player after 17 consecutive weeks because he dives for free kicks, stop and consider whether that actually fits the crime. Also realise that you are providing a shield to those who are booing the outspoken black man, purely on that basis alone.

This is a dual-Brownlow medallist we're talking about. An undisputed champion of our code. He deserves to play out what little is left of his career being recognised as such.

I certainly don't agree with some of what Goodes has said and done, but to continue booing him on a weekly basis isn't just juvenile. It has become hateful. That isn't what the game is about.