Some serious questions asked about Paul Roos ...

[Grand New Flag 3,226]

Anyone who thinks Paul Roos has not performed exceptionally well is forgetting how far behind the pack we were when he took over. In 2012 & 2013 we were the worst team the competition had seen since the last year of Fitzroy. We won 2 games in 2013, one against a bunch of 18 year old kids from GWS who were 4 goals up at 3 quarter time and ran out of puff. On the return bout late in the season GWS easily beat us. We also beat Essendon in the upset of the century (last beat first) but since we have learnt that this was the week that internally the Essendon doping crisis began. Dank was sacked, players were not whacked up for the first time in 18 months. The Essendon players smelt a rat and were physically and mentally off. Most games were lost by over 10 goals and we lost a staggering 6 games by more than 15 goals.

For us to be a competitive, out of the bottom 4 less than 2 season later is a miracle. Thank God for Paul Roos.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Grand New Flag

[Lucifers Hero 37,173]

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-08-21/players-looked-in-holiday-mode-roos:

- Roos indicated he'd be open to staying at the Demons in a part-time capacity after Simon Goodwin transitions into the senior coaching role.

Delighted to hear this!

A few months ago Roos was making noises that he would not hang around after 2016.

So it looks like there has been a rethink and perhaps he has already arranged for 2/3 years part time say to end of 2018/2019.

Would love this to have happened. Gives the players and the club a greater period of consistency, on and off the field.

If he has arranged a part-time gig, it would certainly have helped players extend contracts and attract new players to the club.

Whatever his coaching weaknesses may be, we still need the Roos cred and stature at our club.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[Binmans PA 26,251]

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-08-21/players-looked-in-holiday-mode-roos:

- Roos indicated he'd be open to staying at the Demons in a part-time capacity after Simon Goodwin transitions into the senior coaching role.

Delighted to hear this!

A few months ago Roos was making noises that he would not hang around after 2016.

So it looks like there has been a rethink and perhaps he has already arranged for 2/3 years part time say to end of 2018/2019.

Would love this to have happened. Gives the players and the club a greater period of consistency, on and off the field.

If he has arranged a part-time gig, it would certainly have helped players extend contracts and attract new players to the club.

Whatever his coaching weaknesses may be, we still need the Roos cred and stature at our club.

I'm happy to hear this, but I don't recall him making noises indicting he wouldn't hang around. In fact, I only heard the opposite.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I'm happy to hear this, but I don't recall him making noises indicting he wouldn't hang around. In fact, I only heard the opposite.

Exactly, and "open to staying" doesn't scream out committed. My guess is his openness to staying with Melbourne depends on how much he would get paid. Either way it's a win-win situation for him because if he doesn't stay he can go back to openly supporting Sydney.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Clint Bizkit

[Dr. Mubutu 694]

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-08-21/players-looked-in-holiday-mode-roos:

- Roos indicated he'd be open to staying at the Demons in a part-time capacity after Simon Goodwin transitions into the senior coaching role.

Delighted to hear this!

A few months ago Roos was making noises that he would not hang around after 2016.

So it looks like there has been a rethink and perhaps he has already arranged for 2/3 years part time say to end of 2018/2019.

Would love this to have happened. Gives the players and the club a greater period of consistency, on and off the field.

If he has arranged a part-time gig, it would certainly have helped players extend contracts and attract new players to the club.

Whatever his coaching weaknesses may be, we still need the Roos cred and stature at our club.

From that same article:

MELBOURNE coach Paul Roos says his players looked like they were already on their footy trip after an unacceptable performance against the Western Bulldogs

Surely it's the coach's job to ensure the team are ready to play the game, and ensure that doesn't happen?

I know he did acknowledge that, but at what point will he take responsibility? After we get beaten by 10 goals against GWS in round 23?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Anyone who thinks Paul Roos has not performed exceptionally well is forgetting how far behind the pack we were when he took over. In 2012 & 2013 we were the worst team the competition had seen since the last year of Fitzroy. We won 2 games in 2013, one against a bunch of 18 year old kids from GWS who were 4 goals up at 3 quarter time and ran out of puff. On the return bout late in the season GWS easily beat us. We also beat Essendon in the upset of the century (last beat first) but since we have learnt that this was the week that internally the Essendon doping crisis began. Dank was sacked, players were not whacked up for the first time in 18 months. The Essendon players smelt a rat and were physically and mentally off. Most games were lost by over 10 goals and we lost a staggering 6 games by more than 15 goals.

For us to be a competitive, out of the bottom 4 less than 2 season later is a miracle. Thank God for Paul Roos.

well that's pretty well said too

[What 18,810]

I am happy with what Roos has done so far. We have a platform to spring from now. When he started and at the end of last season we didn't have that base... we were always going to struggle again this season.

There is a chance to shoot up the ladder in 2016 a la Port in 2013.

[Nasher 33,109]

From that same article:

MELBOURNE coach Paul Roos says his players looked like they were already on their footy trip after an unacceptable performance against the Western Bulldogs

Surely it's the coach's job to ensure the team are ready to play the game, and ensure that doesn't happen?

I know he did acknowledge that, but at what point will he take responsibility? After we get beaten by 10 goals against GWS in round 23?

In what way would you like him to "take responsibility"? Beyond acknowledging that the coaches need to step up, the only way senior management can truly "take responsibility" is to resign, otherwise it's just a platitude. The only alternative I can see is like how James Hird "took full responsibility" when this drug bizzo came out - i.e. he said a bunch of words that seemed to indicate he took full responsibility, then continued to go about his business as if nothing had happened.

[jnrmac 19,077]

Titus O'Reilly sums it up perfectly:

"Roos says Demon players are mentally on their end-of-season trip. If only we paid someone millions of dollars to keep them focused"

There is the nub of why many of us are questioning Roos. There are questions about game day coaching, selection table anomalies and his early references to 'them' rather than 'us', the mental scarring of players etc etc smacks of a consultant mentality. All care but no responsibility.

The inability of a well respected senior coach to get his team up for match days and then dismiss it in some kind of off-handed 'gee they weren't switched on were they?' is enexcusable IMO. I would challenge anyone to name another coach in the AFL that would says such a thing..

Its what infuriates a bunch of us. Well if you can't get them up for a game WTF are you doing there? Effort is single non-negotiable thing that the players must bring every week. Yet our efforts, while on average improving, still have the same appalling lapses every second week.

Constant excuses from this club are now simply pathetic. No wonder we are a laughing stock. Thank God for Carlton...

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Our player culture gives us no hope of knowing how much better the WB and STK lists might be than ours. Those two teams tend to go at 100% intensity most of the time, and our players don't. We have made and allowed excuses for these blokes forever and it has now become so acceptable that the media don't even bother pointing out the insipid individual efforts by Melbourne players anymore.

Even if the WB are more talented, they aren't so much more talented that they would [censored] a competing side by 98 points. MFC players lack pride in the club (always have) and don't even appear to show pride in their own individual performance most of the time. Easily pushed aside.

And yeah the intensity was great the days when we beat Rich, Geel, WB, Coll. I wonder if that told the players anything?? Gee when we compete as hard or harder than our opponents we win football matches. The thing about professional sport is, there's a fair chance your opponent might be very hungry to win when they play you. So, they might just lift their own intensity when it looks like you might be challenging them. They might not be prepared to simply roll over. Never does the MFC stand up when this happens.

The Bulldogs tackled manically on the weekend. They were obviously annoyed that they lost to us earlier in the year and wanted to prove a point. What would be nice, just once in an MFC supporters lifetime, would be to see our players lift their own intensity to match when that happens, because they don't want to be embarrassed by the fact that they can lose a game simply because their opponents are tougher and hungrier than them.

The WB looked streets ahead of us on the weekend because they wanted to compete more than we did. That's it in a nutshell. I would consider that disappointing if it was an occasional thing, but I actually think it's contemptuous that it happens regularly. I thought that being individually competitive would have been the one non-negotiable message that Roos, through his high standing in the AFL, would have been able to get across to this group. Not even he seems to have been able to change these guys (maybe they sense he hasn't bought in so they aren't listening, and hey we've allowed all the other excises over the years so why not allow them that one too).

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I am happy with what Roos has done so far. We have a platform to spring from now. When he started and at the end of last season we didn't have that base... we were always going to struggle again this season.

There is a chance to shoot up the ladder in 2016 a la Port in 2013.

If you look at Port in 2012, they only won 5.5 but they lost to the Hawks by 72 and there was their only loss over 10 goals - we feel further back than that for sure

[Dr. Mubutu 694]

In what way would you like him to "take responsibility"? Beyond acknowledging that the coaches need to step up, the only way senior management can truly "take responsibility" is to resign, otherwise it's just a platitude. The only alternative I can see is like how James Hird "took full responsibility" when this drug bizzo came out - i.e. he said a bunch of words that seemed to indicate he took full responsibility, then continued to go about his business as if nothing had happened.

Apologies, this was probably worded horribly on my part - blind MFCSS rage may have taken over.

However, the situation further illustrates the main point of the thread: questions have to be asked.

If he couldn't get the team up, considering the first quarter (and subsequent fightback) against North, and given their win earlier in the season, what is wrong with this group? Is it a coaching issue? Is it the players? If so, why were there only 2 changes for this week - Jetta (injured) and M Jones (who at least looked like he tried)?

[Gator 16,893]

Our player culture gives us no hope of knowing how much better the WB and STK lists might be than ours. Those two teams tend to go at 100% intensity most of the time, and our players don't. We have made and allowed excuses for these blokes forever and it has now become so acceptable that the media don't even bother pointing out the insipid individual efforts by Melbourne players anymore.

Even if the WB are more talented, they aren't so much more talented that they would [censored] a competing side by 98 points. MFC players lack pride in the club (always have) and don't even appear to show pride in their own individual performance most of the time. Easily pushed aside.

And yeah the intensity was great the days when we beat Rich, Geel, WB, Coll. I wonder if that told the players anything?? Gee when we compete as hard or harder than our opponents we win football matches. The thing about professional sport is, there's a fair chance your opponent might be very hungry to win when they play you. So, they might just lift their own intensity when it looks like you might be challenging them. They might not be prepared to simply roll over. Never does the MFC stand up when this happens.

The Bulldogs tackled manically on the weekend. They were obviously annoyed that they lost to us earlier in the year and wanted to prove a point. What would be nice, just once in an MFC supporters lifetime, would be to see our players lift their own intensity to match when that happens, because they don't want to be embarrassed by the fact that they can lose a game simply because their opponents are tougher and hungrier than them.

The WB looked streets ahead of us on the weekend because they wanted to compete more than we did. That's it in a nutshell. I would consider that disappointing if it was an occasional thing, but I actually think it's contemptuous that it happens regularly. I thought that being individually competitive would have been the one non-negotiable message that Roos, through his high standing in the AFL, would have been able to get across to this group. Not even he seems to have been able to change these guys (maybe they sense he hasn't bought in so they aren't listening, and hey we've allowed all the other excises over the years so why not allow them that one too).

Perfect.

[old dee 22,930]

If you look at Port in 2012, they only won 5.5 but they lost to the Hawks by 72 and there was their only loss over 10 goals - we feel further back than that for sure

Spot on C & B

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Titus O'Reilly sums it up perfectly:

"Roos says Demon players are mentally on their end-of-season trip. If only we paid someone millions of dollars to keep them focused"

Titus O'Reily again.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Titus O'Reilly sums it up perfectly:

"Roos says Demon players are mentally on their end-of-season trip. If only we paid someone millions of dollars to keep them focused"

There is the nub of why many of us are questioning Roos. There are questions about game day coaching, selection table anomalies and his early references to 'them' rather than 'us', the mental scarring of players etc etc smacks of a consultant mentality. All care but no responsibility.

The inability of a well respected senior coach to get his team up for match days and then dismiss it in some kind of off-handed 'gee they weren't switched on were they?' is enexcusable IMO. I would challenge anyone to name another coach in the AFL that would says such a thing..

Its what infuriates a bunch of us. Well if you can't get them up for a game WTF are you doing there? Effort is single non-negotiable thing that the players must bring every week. Yet our efforts, while on average improving, still have the same appalling lapses every second week.

Constant excuses from this club are now simply pathetic. No wonder we are a laughing stock. Thank God for Carlton...

Call him up, ask for $1.5 million and do a better job then.

[chook fowler 18,319]

I think it was obvious Roos was really angry after last weeks effort. Good thing too.

[Pates 9,537]

There must be a reaction from the playing group this week, and Paul Roos for that matter. He said the players have already checked, well he should be bringing them back down to earth and making it clear that they are paid for 23 rounds + potential finals, they don't get to check out early, not if they want to be a good AFL side in the future.

Rather than giving up on the year, use it as a platform for 2016.

[jnrmac 19,077]

Call him up, ask for $1.5 million and do a better job then.

Thats a pretty smart arse reply. If you have anything worthwhile to say it would be best to address the points raised.

From that I assume you're happy to pizz $1.5m against the wall for a coach that doesn't seem to know what to do?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,463]

From that same article:

MELBOURNE coach Paul Roos says his players looked like they were already on their footy trip after an unacceptable performance against the Western Bulldogs

Surely it's the coach's job to ensure the team are ready to play the game, and ensure that doesn't happen?

I know he did acknowledge that, but at what point will he take responsibility? After we get beaten by 10 goals against GWS in round 23?

If Paul Roos actually used these words, it's a bit hard to tell whether he was just using an analogy for the sake of finding some words to use or whether he is commenting on what he actually believed he was observing in the minds of the players.

Notwithstanding, and as I've said before, I believe Roos' true value is in the off-field management of the team, not the on-field performances. On-field will improve when the back of house is being properly run. And we seem to be getting that part so much better all the time.

[ManDee 7,091]

Sorry if this has been posted but it's worth a read.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-08-21/roos-open-to-remaining-a-demon

so much is the 52-year-old's commitment to the Demons, he's for the first time left the door ajar to still play a role after he passes to the baton to hand-picked lieutenant Simon Goodwin.

"I won't be coaching anywhere else," he said.

"I love the footy club, if Peter (Jackson) and Simon and Josh (Mahoney) wanted to chat to me at some point next year about some sort of role yeah I'd be more than willing to talk.

"I want to see the club successful in the medium to longer term and I believe firmly in where we're heading.

"And I think Simon's going to be a fantastic coach, who's really going to take the club up in leaps and bounds post next year.

"I'm really mindful, as I was with John (Longmire) you need some clear air between the old coach and the new coach."

[chook fowler 18,319]

I

Sorry if this has been posted but it's worth a read.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-08-21/roos-open-to-remaining-a-demon

so much is the 52-year-old's commitment to the Demons, he's for the first time left the door ajar to still play a role after he passes to the baton to hand-picked lieutenant Simon Goodwin.

"I won't be coaching anywhere else," he said.

"I love the footy club, if Peter (Jackson) and Simon and Josh (Mahoney) wanted to chat to me at some point next year about some sort of role yeah I'd be more than willing to talk.

"I want to see the club successful in the medium to longer term and I believe firmly in where we're heading.

"And I think Simon's going to be a fantastic coach, who's really going to take the club up in leaps and bounds post next year.

"I'm really mindful, as I was with John (Longmire) you need some clear air between the old coach and the new coach."

I hope this helps to silence those who question Roos commitment to the Club. He is not perfect nor the Messiah but I believe he is emotionally invested in our future success and we will be all the better for his long term involvement.

[Lucifers Hero 37,173]

Sorry if this has been posted but it's worth a read.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-08-21/roos-open-to-remaining-a-demon

so much is the 52-year-old's commitment to the Demons, he's for the first time left the door ajar to still play a role after he passes to the baton to hand-picked lieutenant Simon Goodwin.

"I won't be coaching anywhere else," he said.

"I love the footy club, if Peter (Jackson) and Simon and Josh (Mahoney) wanted to chat to me at some point next year about some sort of role yeah I'd be more than willing to talk.

"I want to see the club successful in the medium to longer term and I believe firmly in where we're heading.

"And I think Simon's going to be a fantastic coach, who's really going to take the club up in leaps and bounds post next year.

"I'm really mindful, as I was with John (Longmire) you need some clear air between the old coach and the new coach."

I can't find the article mid where Roos said after 2016 that was it, he was off to Hawaii etc etc. Also, mid year he was quoted as expressing doubt beyond 2016. This is the first time he has clearly said he actually wants to stay and be quite passionate about it. I love that he loves the club!

Whatever his coaching limitations that DL want to focus on, having him in our corner for a few more years will be invaluable. If for no other benefit than his eye for assessing players and input to list management/drafting/recruiting/trading!

Hopefully, PJ signs up for a few more years as well.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[What 18,810]

Sorry if this has been posted but it's worth a read.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-08-21/roos-open-to-remaining-a-demon

so much is the 52-year-old's commitment to the Demons, he's for the first time left the door ajar to still play a role after he passes to the baton to hand-picked lieutenant Simon Goodwin.

"I won't be coaching anywhere else," he said.

"I love the footy club, if Peter (Jackson) and Simon and Josh (Mahoney) wanted to chat to me at some point next year about some sort of role yeah I'd be more than willing to talk.

"I want to see the club successful in the medium to longer term and I believe firmly in where we're heading.

"And I think Simon's going to be a fantastic coach, who's really going to take the club up in leaps and bounds post next year.

"I'm really mindful, as I was with John (Longmire) you need some clear air between the old coach and the new coach."

Thats great to hear

Any guesses on what his role might be post 2016? Director of coaching? Head of MFC under 18 academy?

[rpfc 27,531]

I can't find the article mid where Roos said after 2016 that was it, he was off to Hawaii etc etc. Also, mid year he was quoted as expressing doubt beyond 2016. This is the first time he has clearly said he actually wants to stay and be quite passionate about it. I love that he loves the club!

Whatever his coaching limitations that DL want to focus on, having him in our corner for a few more years will be invaluable. If for no other benefit than his eye for assessing players and input to list management/drafting/recruiting/trading!

Hopefully, PJ signs up for a few more years as well.

Find them before paraphrasing what is said in them.

This is how garbage gets such a long half-life - he has said in the past that he wants to balance his life more with the wishes of his family but I have never, since he came to the club, have developed the impression that he would 'love us and then leave us.' He has never been the personality to do that.

When he talks about the future - we want to hear involvement, but he knows that Goodwin wants to hear separation and a relent of control. Different audiences will interpret different scenarios to the same words.