Dees v Dockers - Round 5

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Show me an extract from Plapp which says that Riley will be able to impact at AFL level, and Spencer will play alongside Jamar. Here's a quote from Plapp about Spencer after the Dogs game:

"Spence has had a really strong month at VFL level and he’s just now waiting for an opportunity to present itself at AFL level."

As we've seen over the past 8 years, just because someone is getting a game at Melbourne doesn't mean that they can impact an AFL game.

Same as on here, just because a poster continually posts, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they post is correct or has any relevance, you can interpret Plapp's comments whatever way you want, I assume you are going to sulk if either of Riley or Spencer get a game on the weekend

So how do you define the ability to impact an AFL game?

[rjay 24,616]

I reckon the Roos' will use the same run-with players as he has with Dangerfield and Cotchin. Vince goes with Fyfe when he's playing on-ball and Garland takes him when he pushes forward.

He may also use Cross who takes varying tagging/run with roles.

Garland maybe busy with the small forwards but the Vince/Viney-Garland combination has worked well so might go again.

[mo64 5,504]

Same as on here, just because a poster continually posts, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they post is correct or has any relevance, you can interpret Plapp's comments whatever way you want, I assume you are going to sulk if either of Riley or Spencer get a game on the weekend

So how do you define the ability to impact an AFL game?

You've said in the past that you have undying loyalty to whoever plays for MFC at the time. You also said in the preseason that Grimes, McKenzie and M.Jones were in our best 22. It's pointless trying to explain to you how a player impacts a game because you either understand AFL football circa 2015 or you don't. Referring to VFL stats is a sure sign that a person doesn't understand the game.

As far as sulking if Riley or Spencer get a game, we have to put 22 players on the ground, and our depth of talent is so thin that someone who's below AFL standard is likely to get a game. Personally, I'd like to see Stretch called up ahead of Riley and given the subs vest. And if Spencer plays, we are left with 2 midfield rotations for the whole game, because neither Jamar or Spencer will be given any time resting in the forward line. If Jamar was out, Spencer has to play because he's a no.1 ruckman, that's it.

[Akum 2,660]

I'd love to see vandenBerg go up against Fyfe but I imagine that Vince will get the gig.

Apparently Mundy plays deeper these days & spends 60% of his time on the ground across half-back as a defensive mid. He's apparently taken his game up another notch & generating a lot of drive for them. If we're to avoid getting strangled yet again, we'll have to nullify him, and stop him generating drive as well.

Mundy wouldn't have had many opponents who could match him for speed, height & strength & are even more aggressive. So he might be a better match-up for VandenBerg. It's a massive ask in his 5th AFL game tho'.

[mo64 5,504]

He may also use Cross who takes varying tagging/run with roles.

Garland maybe busy with the small forwards but the Vince/Viney-Garland combination has worked well so might go again.

If Tyson is out, Cross may run with Mundy, otherwise I'd be happy for Jones and Tyson to go head-to-head with Barlow and Mundy. Roos hasn't used a hard tag all year, which is great to see, and the mids have held their own in the clearances aside from the 2nd half against GWS.

[mo64 5,504]

Apparently Mundy plays deeper these days & spends 60% of his time on the ground across half-back as a defensive mid. He's apparently taken his game up another notch & generating a lot of drive for them. If we're to avoid getting strangled yet again, we'll have to nullify him, and stop him generating drive as well.

Mundy wouldn't have had many opponents who could match him for speed, height & strength & are even more aggressive. So he might be a better match-up for VandenBerg. It's a massive ask in his 5th AFL game tho'.

Good call.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

You've said in the past that you have undying loyalty to whoever plays for MFC at the time. You also said in the preseason that Grimes, McKenzie and M.Jones were in our best 22. It's pointless trying to explain to you how a player impacts a game because you either understand AFL football circa 2015 or you don't. Referring to VFL stats is a sure sign that a person doesn't understand the game.

As far as sulking if Riley or Spencer get a game, we have to put 22 players on the ground, and our depth of talent is so thin that someone who's below AFL standard is likely to get a game. Personally, I'd like to see Stretch called up ahead of Riley and given the subs vest. And if Spencer plays, we are left with 2 midfield rotations for the whole game, because neither Jamar or Spencer will be given any time resting in the forward line. If Jamar was out, Spencer has to play because he's a no.1 ruckman, that's it.

It is not undying loyalty chap, it is called supporting your team, every player who runs out gives it the best they have got, I understand that some don't have great skills, but I refuse to bag them, only somebody who is petty will do that

From pre season training, Grimes, Matt Jones and McKenzie were in the best 22 but they have now been passed by other players at the moment, it is up to them to improve the areas that have been identified by the coaches that will enable them to challenge for a spot in the 22 again, if they don't we know what will happen at the end of the season

It is not my understanding that is in question chap, you are one for making big statements and not backing them up, so again I ask how does a player impact at AFL level, is it in your opinion as simple as getting a lot of possessions or kicking goals, let's see what you mean

[rjay 24,616]

If Tyson is out, Cross may run with Mundy, otherwise I'd be happy for Jones and Tyson to go head-to-head with Barlow and Mundy. Roos hasn't used a hard tag all year, which is great to see, and the mids have held their own in the clearances aside from the 2nd half against GWS.

He did run with Ellis the other day and the same last year. I'm not sure if he played against Freo last year and if he did who he picked up but we could expect similar.

[mo64 5,504]

It is not undying loyalty chap, it is called supporting your team, every player who runs out gives it the best they have got, I understand that some don't have great skills, but I refuse to bag them, only somebody who is petty will do that

From pre season training, Grimes, Matt Jones and McKenzie were in the best 22 but they have now been passed by other players at the moment, it is up to them to improve the areas that have been identified by the coaches that will enable them to challenge for a spot in the 22 again, if they don't we know what will happen at the end of the season

It is not my understanding that is in question chap, you are one for making big statements and not backing them up, so again I ask how does a player impact at AFL level, is it in your opinion as simple as getting a lot of possessions or kicking goals, let's see what you mean

There's a difference between bagging a player and giving an honest assessment. You can't give an honest assessment because you're too emotionally invested in the players.

And the highlighted statement says alot about your understanding of AFL football.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

There's a difference between bagging a player and giving an honest assessment. You can't give an honest assessment because you're too emotionally invested in the players.

And the highlighted statement says alot about your understanding of AFL football.

Again, can't back up your statement, you and others do bag, you also without viewing a game or training make sweeping statements and honest assessments, and they all tend to be along the same theme

I offered an opinion before the season started on those three players, I am willing to say it is wrong now, in a pleasing way, I am overjoyed that Gus Brayshaw has also proved me completely and utterly wrong when I said he wasn't ready

Jack Grimes for one has gone back to Casey and worked his arse off to get back in form and improve the areas he was lacking, hopefully if he gets a game on the weekend he will shut up a few posters on here

[McQueen 17,864]

There's another Melbourne Vs Freo game this Sunday as my young bloke takes to the Auskick arena for the very first time. I've kitted him out in the standard Demons Auskick apparel pack and he's raring to go. Unfortunately, the zone we're in wears the Dockers gear for all grades so I'm thinking he's going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Will be finished just in time to walk home and watch us pull off the upset of the round.

[daisycutter 29,343]

There's a difference between bagging a player and giving an honest assessment. You can't give an honest assessment because you're too emotionally invested in the players.

And the highlighted statement says alot about your understanding of AFL football.

why does it bother you so much, mo?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

And the highlighted statement says alot about your understanding of AFL football.

I don't think that's fair - prior to the NAB cup, very few people were suggesting that Van Damme, Newton, Frost, Kent, JKH, Brayshaw and Hogan would all have established themselves so well and been named as often - that is the reason Grimes, McKenzie, M.Jones, Bail etc have been squeezed out

[mo64 5,504]

why does it bother you so much, mo?

Because when the said person, who sees himself as an authority on the game just because he regularly attends training, starts making snide comments of a personal nature, I'll tear apart his arguments till the cows come home. Just like he'd derail his own training reports by getting personal, he does the same with match previews and reviews.

We all have differing opinions, and sometimes we gets things right, and sometimes we get things wrong. But in baseball terms, he's batting .001.

[The Reverend 1,736]

Great stats Rev, ta. Third in marks. No 1 for goal assists. Shows his value. Would love to see his GPS figures

Where can i find those stats

Dunno, can't seem to find that stuff. It's pretty clear though that he covers a lot of ground. I'm sure that once his team mates have a little more faith in him he will become a really damaging player.

I used to focus on his insipid tackling and seeming reluctance to engage in the rough stuff but now I watch his running and positioning. He is working as hard as he can to present options for his team. This is what he does well. He just needs his mates to understand and perhaps make better decisions. He is not going to be the player that crashes packs and flattens opposition players but he is going to be someone opposition backs will hate playing on because he will work them so hard. He will win us some games along the way I'm sure.

[mo64 5,504]

I don't think that's fair - prior to the NAB cup, very few people were suggesting that Van Damme, Newton, Frost, Kent, JKH, Brayshaw and Hogan would all have established themselves so well and been named as often - that is the reason Grimes, McKenzie, M.Jones, Bail etc have been squeezed out

I disagree. Most on here got excited by the selection of our round 1 team because we'd seen what the 4 players mentioned had to offer plus 2 or 3 others, and understood that for Melbourne to get better, these guys had to be replaced. Personally, based on how we were structuring and our match sims during preseason training, I thought that Hogan, JKH, Kent, plus Garlett and Salem, were locks for round 1. I was also hopeful that at least 2 of Brayshaw, Petracca, ABN and Stretch may be considered for round 1, and barring injury to Petracca and ABN, that may have occured.

Of the 4 mentioned, I still think that Grimes still has alot to offer, but I've given up on the other 3 becoming regular AFL players.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I disagree. Most on here got excited by the selection of our round 1 team because we'd seen what the 4 players mentioned had to offer plus 2 or 3 others, and understood that for Melbourne to get better, these guys had to be replaced. Personally, based on how we were structuring and our match sims during preseason training, I thought that Hogan, JKH, Kent, plus Garlett and Salem, were locks for round 1. I was also hopeful that at least 2 of Brayshaw, Petracca, ABN and Stretch may be considered for round 1, and barring injury to Petracca and ABN, that may have occured.

Of the 4 mentioned, I still think that Grimes still has alot to offer, but I've given up on the other 3 becoming regular AFL players.

but you didn't mention Newton, Frost and Vandenburg. Brayshaw playing every game since R1 was also very unlikely. Not arguing for the sake of it, just saying that if you went back to a pre-NAB thread naming best22s, I'm sure you'd find a hell of a lot of people other than Saty naming those 4 players (Grimes on the field, 1 or 2 of the others on the bench). Don't get me wrong, I agree with your assessment of these players and am thrilled that these newbies have stepped up to replace them, and we are a better side for it, but its a bit rough to sledge Saty on that basis.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,283]

I disagree. Most on here got excited by the selection of our round 1 team because we'd seen what the 4 players mentioned had to offer plus 2 or 3 others, and understood that for Melbourne to get better, these guys had to be replaced. Personally, based on how we were structuring and our match sims during preseason training, I thought that Hogan, JKH, Kent, plus Garlett and Salem, were locks for round 1. I was also hopeful that at least 2 of Brayshaw, Petracca, ABN and Stretch may be considered for round 1, and barring injury to Petracca and ABN, that may have occured.

Of the 4 mentioned, I still think that Grimes still has alot to offer, but I've given up on the other 3 becoming regular AFL players.

I agree referring the other 3. I think if we can do some good work this trade/draft period we could really improve the list further. If we can pick up Selwood as a FA he could take McKenzie spot and further our depth. I also think we could look at the possibility of bringing in Leunberger as a FA if he wants a change of scenery. It would be great to top that off by trading for one of the GWS young guns.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I agree referring the other 3. I think if we can do some good work this trade/draft period we could really improve the list further. If we can pick up Selwood as a FA he could take McKenzie spot and further our depth. I also think we could look at the possibility of bringing in Leunberger as a FA if he wants a change of scenery. It would be great to top that off by trading for one of the GWS young guns.

I am confident Roosy will again dominate the trade/draft period like he has the last 2 years. As you say, he has probably replaced 3-5 players each year through making the right delistings and identifying good targets at other clubs. It is also handy that we seem to be a club all of a sudden who drafts 18 year olds and they actually contribute significantly in their first 1/2 years. This has been nearly unknown in the pre-Roos years. Of course it is important that Roosy is changing the culture/mindset of the group, and training us well, performing in the box on game day etc etc but IMO his list management in the off-season hs been the biggest highlight of his appointment thus far, he is nailing it.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Definitely a plan of Roos to have a midfield tag on the opposition's most dangerous mid, and let Garland take over when they go forward. It was Viney/Garland in rounds 1 and 2, and then Vince/Garland in rounds 3 and 4. I think Vince has done brilliantly the last 2 weeks, so he can do it again.

But I just can't see us breaking anywhere near even against Freo's midfield.

[Ouch! 2,205]

But I just can't see us breaking anywhere near even against Freo's midfield.

... I didn't think the bulldogs would get within 40 points of Adelaide last week either.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

... I didn't think the bulldogs would get within 40 points of Adelaide last week either.

we were paying 9.50 against the Crows and we got within 4 goals

we were paying 3.50 last week and we won by 5 goals

this week we are paying 4.85

will we be surprising everyone again, or is it a case that they should not be surprised

[beelzebub 23,200]

we were paying 9.50 against the Crows and we got within 4 goals

we were paying 3.50 last week and we won by 5 goals

this week we are paying 4.85

will we be surprising everyone again, or is it a case that they should not be surprised

wheres the line ?

[Clintosaurus 7,572]

wheres the line ?

30.5 on Tattsbet.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I'm bullish about our chances on the weekend and I think we can give Freo a bit of a scare... but I hope we don't forget that Freo are a brilliant side and, if the inevitable 7 goal loss happens, that we don't lose sight of that fact. It would be very, very easy to slam the side after a loss like that but we need to remember where we are coming from and just who we are playing. As long as the side puts in the exact same effort as last Friday night then I don't think we can fault them.

I'll be quietly confident that we can give it a real crack but won't be disappointed if Freo show us why they are a few rungs above us in class and skill.