Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL


Demonland

Recommended Posts

Very few of us will be satisfied if the outcome is a headline in the HUN reading: 'Players cleared to play'

and in the fine print it mentions they were found responsible but is was all the fault of some other parties. The AFL may not even dare to mention the name of the party until they try him. (I understand Hird isn't on trial here. Hopefully he will be.)

Sue it won't work this way. If the Tribunal is satisfied that they took TB4 even unwittingly then they have to be banned. The normal ban is 2yrs. But if they can show they had no knowledge of being given an illegal substance that can result in them receiving a 12mth reduction. They still face a mandatory 12mths. If they fully co operate they can have that reduced by a further 6mths. So they end up with only 6mth bans. In this case they haven't done that so they will face at least 12mths as a best case if the Tribunal are satisfied they were given TB4.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's hope so. EFC be able to play for time and turn over their list.

A number of us paranoids always suspected it was Essendon that got the Workcover people to investigate other clubs. At least that has been knocked oevr and EFC are still in their gunsights.

Cause we were only doing what we suspected other clubs were doing....

There maybe a very big financial work cover penalty coming there way, and almost certainly some private settlements to sort out (pretty sure the standard player contract doesn't give permission to inject players full of banned substances).

Edited by grazman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its Time.

Logic suggests that a non defence from the players effectively accomplishes the goal of ASADAs quest to establish Guilt. No plausible alternative with corroborated paperwork effectively reverts to the default, that being cooked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sue it won't work this way. If the Tribunal is satisfied that they took TB4 even unwittingly then they have to be banned. The normal ban is 2yrs. But if they can show they had no knowledge of being given an illegal substance that can result in them receiving a 12mth reduction. They still face a mandatory 12mths. If they fully co operate they can have that reduced by a further 6mths. So they end up with only 6mth bans. In this case they haven't done that so they will face at least 12mths as a best case if the Tribunal are satisfied they were given TB4.

I think the problem both the AFL and hence the players will have is WADA's view on exactly "what" the players thought they were being "secretly" injected with and the nature of their cooperation (which we are yet to really see any evidence of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sue it won't work this way. If the Tribunal is satisfied that they took TB4 even unwittingly then they have to be banned. The normal ban is 2yrs. But if they can show they had no knowledge of being given an illegal substance that can result in them receiving a 12mth reduction. They still face a mandatory 12mths. If they fully co operate they can have that reduced by a further 6mths. So they end up with only 6mth bans. In this case they haven't done that so they will face at least 12mths as a best case if the Tribunal are satisfied they were given TB4.

and as they haven't co-operated one bit that ban can be extended...just saying
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cause we were only doing what we suspected other clubs were doing....

There maybe a very big financial work cover penalty coming there way, and almost certainly some private settlements to sort out (pretty sure the standard player contract doesn't give permission to inject players full of banned substances).

DOnt forget Directors being held liable. As would happen in a private company where a worker was put in an unsafe situation, killed or injured..

Essendon are cooked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All the ADRVP have to decide is whether there is enough of a question to require a Tribunal hearing. This is a long way below the much higher standard of proof and much greater legal forensic examination of a Tribunal, so of itself it doesn't indicate the likely success of ASADA's case.

Has been discussed before, so not going to contribute to going round in circles by opening that particular Pandora's box more than necessary - but believe you're wrong.

For Olympic sports, it's the ADRVP who confirm guilt (or otherwise) and recommend penalties. Which can then be appealed at CAS. But if there's an appeal, there has to have been a ruling (of guilt), or as it's now phrased in the legislation, "an assertion of guilt"- which comes from the ADVRP.

This is also confirmed for me by the situation with the Register of Findings. OK, the ROF has now been abolished, but being entered onto the ROF is an assertion of guilt: once your name is there, it's only removed if you're found innocent. Once again, the ROF isn't a kind of "yeah, could be something in it". Entering names on the ROF is what the ADRVP do.

IMHO, it's not inherently different to the situation/relationship regarding the match review committee and the tribunal. The match review committee doesn't simply say "hmm, that could have been a head-high tackle". They make a finding and lay specific charges, including recommending penalties. If the player wants to contest or appeal those charges, they go to the tribunal. From my understanding, it's not really any different here.

Edited by bing181
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Has been discussed before, so not going to contribute to going round in circles by opening that particular Pandora's box more than necessary - but believe you're wrong.

For Olympic sports, it's the ADRVP who confirm guilt (or otherwise) and recommend penalties. Which can then be appealed at CAS. But if there's an appeal, there has to have been a ruling (of guilt), or as it's now phrased in the legislation, "an assertion of guilt"- which comes from the ADVRP.

This is also confirmed for me by the situation with the Register of Findings. OK, the ROF has now been abolished, but being entered onto the ROF is an assertion of guilt: once your name is there, it's only removed if you're found innocent. Once again, the ROF isn't a kind of "yeah, could be something in it". Entering names on the ROF is what the ADRVP do.

IMHO, it's not inherently different to the situation/relationship regarding the match review committee and the tribunal. The match review committee doesn't simply say "hmm, that could have been a head-high tackle". They make a finding and lay specific charges, including recommending penalties. If the player wants to contest or appeal those charges, they go to the tribunal. From my understanding, it's not really any different here.

ha ha you can't open Pandora's box a little bit ! It's either open or closed!! And you have opened it !

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the Age

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/nine-afl-clubs-cleared-but-workcover-probe-into-essendon-afl-continues-20150223-13mict.html

"WorkSafe has completed an investigation into alleged health and safety breaches by nine Victorian-based AFL clubs and will take no further action," the VWA said in a statement.

"Separate investigations relating to the Essendon Football Club and the AFL are continuing, and it is inappropriate to comment further."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree jnrmac the rumours on a few players in the AFL are too strong and have been going to long for there not to be some fire.

Only a matter of time in my view.

A lot of people may be very surprised about the amount of Cocaine consumed by the more highly regarded members of this society.

Drugs are everywhere I'd be surprised if a majority of players haven't taken an illicit drug at least once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ha ha you can't open Pandora's box a little bit ! It's either open or closed!! And you have opened it !

The drums are beating louder !!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It reads that way.

Much of whats transpired to date would indicate the endgame being the current tribunal. Maybe some tactic has been to accommodate the inevitable inquiry from Worksafe ?

Oh I don't agree at all. The AFL tribunal is just the first step, possibly followed by appeals then maybe a WADA appeal to CAS. I think it is only after this is complete will the real VWC investigation get to a full steam. This still has a long way to go, and I dont expect the AFL tribunal finding to go nearly far enough for either ASADA or WADA.

Then there will be the inevitable legal actions by al the "wounded" parties....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drugs are everywhere I'd be surprised if a majority of players haven't taken an illicit drug at least once.

Trust me, It's rife and has been for years. The drugs only stay in the system for 2 or 3 days, and when you only get tested a handful of times a year, the odds are pretty good not to get busted.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drugs are everywhere I'd be surprised if a majority of players haven't taken an illicit drug at least once.

I'd be surprised if a majority of people haven't taken an illicit drug at least once.

(or so I'm told ... cough cough).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the Age

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/nine-afl-clubs-cleared-but-workcover-probe-into-essendon-afl-continues-20150223-13mict.html

"WorkSafe has completed an investigation into alleged health and safety breaches by nine Victorian-based AFL clubs and will take no further action," the VWA said in a statement.

"Separate investigations relating to the Essendon Football Club and the AFL are continuing, and it is inappropriate to comment further."

hahahah

All that work by bitter losers like Martin Hardie to ask Workcover to investigate all clubs not just Essendon, and all clubs except Essendon given the all clear

Brilliant

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trust me, It's rife and has been for years. The drugs only stay in the system for 2 or 3 days, and when you only get tested a handful of times a year, the odds are pretty good not to get busted.

That is a bit of a generalisation. Which drugs? Some can be detected in hair samples months later.Think of Ben Cousins shaved head & body, No hair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


That is a bit of a generalisation. Which drugs? Some can be detected in hair samples months later.Think of Ben Cousins shaved head & body, No hair.

The hair testing was something Ben Cousins wen't through, most of the tests are urine. Your standard "party" drugs which players would use such as cocaine etc are 2-3 days max in a urine test.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a bit of a generalisation. Which drugs? Some can be detected in hair samples months later.Think of Ben Cousins shaved head & body, No hair.

It depends on the amount and frequency. Cocaine will be in your system for about 12 hours.

Ice would clear the system in 1-4 days.

Ice will show up in a hair follicle for longer than urine.

Cousins would have blown those timings for ice away.

Edited by Ethan Tremblay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drugs are everywhere I'd be surprised if a majority of players haven't taken an illicit drug at least once.

Trust me, It's rife and has been for years. The drugs only stay in the system for 2 or 3 days, and when you only get tested a handful of times a year, the odds are pretty good not to get busted.

From what i can remember Cousins was specifically targeted for hair testing and this is not the standard of drug testing in the AFL.

Agree, and it's the box the AFL don't want opened. It's rife in the community and the AFL.

The AFL don't want to seriously address the issue (governments haven't been able to sort it out so why do we think the AFL can) and maybe they are right in this but they must expect from time to time things will erupt as maybe it will this time with the Hunt investigation.

Edited by rjay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was at a BBQ with a mate who is close to the case and he says its a 50/50 call as to the players getting off or convicted.

Apparently the Essendon lawyers aren't disputing the legality of the drug Thymosin, everyone is pretty convinced the players got the illegal stuff. What they are arguing is the pathway of the drug to Essendon and wether they are completely satisfied that even though it is pretty clear Essendon were trying to inject the players with the bad Thymosin because of the complex pathway from China and the people involved and their less than convincing reputations are we completely positive that the players were given that drug.

Further he said that Hird's reputation has taken an absolute battering and nobody regards him as acting with any moral compass at all throughout the whole saga. Text messages that haven't come out yet are damning.

He also suggested the reason Hird wasn't sacked around their B&F night was because they were going to sack him because of his appeal and legally Hird could have sued for wrongful dismissal or some legal point. If they just had of sacked him and stated it wasn't really anything to do with the court case, new start etc, they could have and should have already got rid of him.

Players can be suspended for even "attempting" to use PED's so whether or not they actually injected them is irrelevant. There was a VFL player who copped a big penalty (2years?) just for trying to import a substance that turned out to be not permitted.

As for the second point I can't understand why they wouldn't just sack the scumbag, I've never heard of a professional team in any sport needing a reason to sack a coach, the suggestion he could see for wrongful dismissal is laughable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes because of the lack of "firm" evidence through blood tests or actual discovery of the drugs on the premises, regardless of what the players thought they did or didn't take can the court be 100 per cent sure it was the illegal Thymomodulin taken.

Quite a few of the players are really upset with the way they've been treated. Hird will struggle to survive whichever way it goes.

I think getting Hird out of footy is the number one priority.

So as long as you destroy all records of what was taken you can escape penalty? I don't think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    MAULED by Whispering Jack

    The writing was on the wall from the very first bounce of the football. The big men went up, Max Gawn more often than not, decisively won the ruck hit out and invariably a Brisbane Lions onballer either won the battle on the ground or halved the contest and they went at it repeatedly until they finally won out. Melbourne managed the first goal from Alex Neal-Bullen but after that the visitors shut out every area of Demon presence around the ground except in the ruck duels. It was a mauling.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 4

    PREGAME: Rd 07 vs Richmond

    The Demons have a bye next week and have a 13 day break before they return to the MCG on ANZAC Eve to take on the Tigers. Who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 60

    PODCAST: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 15th April @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons loss at the MCG against the Lions in the Round 05. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat LIV

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 10

    VOTES: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

    Last week Christian Petracca retook the outright lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Max Gawn, Steven May, Alex Neal-Bullen & Jack Viney. Your votes for the loss against the Lions. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 34

    POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

    The Demons 4 game winning streak has come to an end after a disappointing loss against the Brisbane Lions at the MCG going down by 22 points. 

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 414

    GAMEDAY: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

    It's Game Day & Demons have a great opportunity to win their fifth game on the trot and go into the bye with 5 wins and one loss when they take on the Brisbane Lions at the MCG on the Thursday night big stage.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 833

    TRAINING: Wednesday 10th April 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Demon Dynasty were once again on hand at this morning's Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock to bring you their observations from training. KEV MARTIN'S CAPTAIN'S RUN OBSERVATIONS No-one in rehab this morning, a Captain's run, 26 players. Laurie, Tomlinson, Tholstrup, Chandler, Woey, and Kossie are out there. Rehabbers are out now. Marty, McAdam, Melky, Bowey, Sestan. As a guess for in and outs, I would say, out Laurie, Tomlinson, and W

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    DEMONLAND: Good evening, Demon fans and welcome to the Demonland 2024 Grand Final Podcast … It’s been a beautiful last day of September and how sweet it is to bring you our coverage of all things that matter about the great Demon resurgence which we’ve seen over the past six or seven months. How our team overcame a turbulent off season and a disappointing start to 2024 on a humid night in Sydney, turned our detractors into believers and then ended the year triumphant in the finals with our capta

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 3

    TRAINING: Sunday 7th April 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin ventured down in the rain to Gosch's Paddock for the Demon Family Series April School Holiday Open Training session. Not such a good morning, weather wise. As I arrived, it starting raining, settled into watching some Victory players have a kick around. The MFC squad come out as the rain abated, they had wide smiles as the walked down the roped corridor. Plenty of joy from the supporters towards them, kids everywhere, maybe about 500 to a 1000 of us.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 1
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 05

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 05 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 05

  • Match Report      

    MAULED by Whispering Jack

    The writing was on the wall from the very first bounce of the football. The big men went up, Max Gawn more often than not, decisively won the ruck hit out and invariably a Brisbane Lions onballer either won the battle on the ground or halved the contest and they went at it repeatedly until they finally won out ... READ MORE

    Demonland | April 12

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

    The Demons 4 game winning streak has come to an end after a disappointing loss against the Brisbane Lions at the MCG going down by 22 points ...READ MORE

    Demonland | April 11

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

    Last week Christian Petracca retook the outright lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Max Gawn, Steven May, Alex Neal-Bullen & Jack Viney. Your votes for the loss against the Lions. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | April 11

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 06 vs Richmond

    The Demons have a bye next week and have a 13 day break before they return to the MCG on ANZAC Eve to take on the Tigers. Who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | April 11

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

    It's Game Day & the Demons have a great opportunity to win their fifth game on the trot and go into the bye with 5 wins and one loss when they take on the Brisbane Lions at the MCG on the Thursday night big stage ... READ MORE

    Demonland | April 11

  • Training  

    Wednesday, 10th April 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Demon Dynasty were once again on hand at this morning's Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | April 10

  • Match Preview      

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Good evening, Demon fans and welcome to the Demonland 2024 Grand Final Podcast … It’s been a beautiful last day of September and how sweet it is to bring you our coverage of all things that matter about the great Demon resurgence which we’ve seen over the past six or seven months ... READ MORE

    Demonland | April 09

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 04 vs Adelaide

    The boys analysed win number 2 from 2 in Adelaide against the Crows praising the games of Petracca and McVee, the bravery of May and the emergence of our young guns ... LISTEN

    Demonland | April 09

  • Training  

    Sunday, 7th April 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin ventured down in the rain to Gosch's Paddock for the Demon Family Series April School Holiday Open Training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | April 07

  • Training  

    Monday, 1st April 2024

    Our man on the spot Bendigo Demon traveled to Adelaide for our back to back games in the City of Churches and brings you his observations from the Demon's training session at Hisense Stadium ... READ MORE

    Demonland | April 01

  • Casey Report      

    FIELD OF DREAMS by KC from Casey

    The sunny skies and still, clear conditions that greeted fans on their arrival created a dreamlike Easter carnival atmosphere for Casey’s game against Footscray at Casey Fields ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 31

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 07

       vs   

    Wednesday 24th April 2024
    @ 07:25pm (MCG)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Daniel Turner Hip Available
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 2-3 Weeks
    Marty Hore Thumb 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 4 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 5-6 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 10-12 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 55
    2 Max Gawn 49
    3 Steven May 34
    4 Alex Neal-Bullen 27
    5 Jack Viney 24
    6 Clayton Oliver 22
    7 Bayley Fritsch 19
    8 Judd McVee 15
    9 Christian Salem 12
    10 Blake Howes 11

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...