THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[Willmoy1947 4,198]

Not buried DISBANDED.....

[biggestred 5,237]

Be hilarious if the whole list got 18 months

And watson and fletcher got 2 years because they played international rules

[Cards13 9,117]

Be hilarious if the whole list got 18 months

And watson and fletcher got 2 years because they played international rules

And then Fletch came back and still played for 2 years.

[deefrag 277]

Just to bring a little peace to the collective Demonlander psyche, I took a peek at the boy's training this morning and NO sign of peptides! In fact the group look very lean, in particular the "Prince" who looks Ks lighter than last year. Happy to say not a pumped up Wastsonesque body in sight . . . 2015 Go Dees!!

[SaberFang 7,151]

An 18 month suspension would basically spell the end Fletch's career. What a way to go out.

Not sure whether to feel pity or laugh at it all.

Idiots.

[Fork 'em 7,043]

why is it that I have this sick feeling that this mob are either going to get off or receive a slap over the wrist.

-there seems a lot of sympathy for the players from all quarters.

Somebody reassure me that my logic is flawed or that my cynicism is unwarranted. Or point me in the direction of a good psychotherapist.

EH

Wouldn't surprise me if the got the slap on the wrist either.

Not sure about the sympathy from all quarters for the players though.

Sadly, I don't think your cynicism or logic is flawed.

[grazman 7,504]

which looks like a clear dig at Watson and fletcher saying you ignored the suspension thus we feel you are not entitled to back dating

I thought I heard Fletcher was one who refused to participate in the program

Edited February 11, 2015 by grazman

[Lucifers Hero 40,509]

Caroline lays it on the line:

"But if ever the time had come for the new AFL chief to demonstrate his authority it is now."

Essendon's refusal to play is making a mockery of the preseason competition

Yep. Gil time for you to stand up for the AFL and the other 17 clubs in the competition!!! Stop all the conciliatory crap and do what is right for your sponsor (NAB) and for the competition!

[Cards13 9,117]

Caroline lays it on the line:

"But if ever the time had come for the new AFL chief to demonstrate his authority it is now."

Essendon's refusal to play is making a mockery of the preseason competition

Yep. Gil time for you to stand up for the AFL and the other 17 clubs in the competition!!! Stop all the conciliatory crap and do what is right your sponsor (NAB) and for the competition!

Agree but he is not after the good of the game he is after the most money he can get out of the tv rights,sponsors, fans and media.

[Lucifers Hero 40,509]

Agree but he is not after the good of the game he is after the most money he can get out of the tv rights,sponsors, fans and media.

I think you are right and eventually that is what will turn so many people away from aussie rules to other sports like soccer. It may take 5 or 10 years but the writing is on the wall!

All of my demons and pies supporting family (except me) have stopped buying their AFL Club memberships to buy Melbourne Victory memberships. Sign of the times.

[hoopla 418]

What continues to worry me about this whole fiasco is the difficulty involved in identifying the individuals who got each injection.

I have no doubt that ASADA has sufficient evidence to comfortably satisfy the tribunal that at least 30 syringes of a banned substance were emptied into the veins of a group of 34 Essendon players - but whether or not they can establish that all 34 got an injection and that not one syringe was lost or damaged is another matter.

If even just one syringe went astray the defence lawyers will have a ball arguing first one player , and then another ....and then another ... and etc,....... was the (un) lucky one to miss out!!

Surely the difficulty in this case lies in attaching dosages to particular individuals. Hird and his co-conspirators destroyed the trail to individuals long ago - which is why Worksafe should be queued up to prosecute the club regardless of the Tribunal's final decision!

[pantaloons 2,019]

Caroline lays it on the line:"

Yep. Gil time for you to stand up for the AFL and the other 17 clubs in the competition!!! Stop all the conciliatory crap and do what is right for your sponsor (NAB) and for the competition!

I think that's what this is:

"Fairfax Media understands the AFL will punish any club abandoning a game by withdrawing premiership points and could even threaten draft sanctions. This is what Essendon faces."

If they docked 4-8 premiership points for every preseason game they boycotted, that pretty much ends the season of a mediocre side needing things running their way just to play finals.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

The afl is being made to look at the mercy of the efc about time the AFL reminded them of their place and for the love of god clarify the situation

[deefrag 277]

The afl is being made to look at the mercy of the efc about time the AFL reminded them of their place and for the love of god clarify the situation

Held to ransom by a rogue club . . grow a pair and slap the dopers down!

Personally I don't care if I never again see a black and red jumper.

[whatwhat say what 23,418]

gil doesn't need to say anything at this point. feb 18 is the current date that's been bandied about as tribunal starting to consider their recommended course of action - which can of course be appealed by wada if required. the peptides don't have their first nab challenge game til march 7.

tribunal comes out and announces back-dated six month bans within a week of that, and gil announces changes to nab challenge schedules as it won't even effect the premiership season.

and then we wait to see whether there's an appeal.

[SaberFang 7,151]

and then we wait to see whether there's an appeal.

Rest assured, no matter the outcome there will be an appeal from either side.

[Cards13 9,117]

I think you are right and eventually that is what will turn so many people away from aussie rules to other sports like soccer. It may take 5 or 10 years but the writing is on the wall!

All of my demons and pies supporting family (except me) have stopped buying their AFL Club memberships to buy Melbourne Victory memberships. Sign of the times.

LH what sport would they then follow? A sport run by Blatter? NFL is a money game for owners.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Caro, as always, is spot on.

The AFL have been made to look like inept, spineless fools throughout this saga. Indeed it appears the tail does wag the dog.

Gil might want to protect the interests of Essendon and their large supporter base, but he's a fool to do it at the expense of the other 17 clubs. Let's not forget who is to blame for this entire mess.

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,315]

I hate Essendon F.C.

[felixdacat 459]

and then just when you thought it was safe to . . BANG! . . another hit on the head with the WADA bat!!

11.2 Consequences for Team Sports

I f more than two members of a team in a Team Sport are

found to have committed an anti-doping rule violation

during an Event Period, the ruling body of the Event shall

impose an appropriate sanction on the team (e.g., loss

of points, Disqualification from a Competition or Event, or

other sanction) in addition to any Consequences imposed

upon the individual Athletes committing the anti-doping

rule violation.

It was mentioned on BF in one of thread where an EFC fan is holding on to hope that the AFL wanted to negotiate a team penalty rather than individual penalties. Maybe I should point them to this clause in particular the sentence that says "in addition to any Consequences imposed upon the individual Athletes committing the anti-doping rule violation." Edited February 11, 2015 by felixdacat

[Dees2014 2,377]

Further reading suggests the following. Bans arent backdated per se. Its bordering pedantic but the bans start from the handing down from the Tribunal of the penalty. You are then to take away the time incurred having been provisionally suspended. It sort of adds up to the same thing but its very important that the ban actually( officially) starts from the tribunals decision.

you are of course correct in the noting of SCN's

I think the important thing to understand here is that neither ASADA nor WADA feel they owe Essendon and the AFL any favours. In fact quite the opposite. At the top of both organisations it is fair to say they are ropable as to the arrogance of this major Australian sport, and they are determined to ensure they get their just deserts. That means full penalties. ASADA stopped talking to Essendon around the time Hird took them to court . No communication about discounted sentences has occurred since then basically because ASADA says "they have done their dash and if they won't co-operate with us neither will we do them any favours".

Basically I believe they will stick to the letter of the law and date any penalties from the days of the handing down of sentences without any discounts. This i believe will be followed by a case mounted against Hird. He will get life.

I hasten to add though this will not come from the AFL Tribunal. Under intense pressure from a variety of vested interests, not least the ABBOTT government desperately trying to make itself popular, they will hand down backdated 6 month penalties to the end of last season, and all Essendon and their tame lackies in the media will say is "I told you so". Within weeks WADA will have taken them to CAS and the above penalties will come out.

Then there is Worksafe......it has years to run.

It is a measure of the desperation of these people that their acolytes in the Press have just started to float the idea that the AFL should renounce their signing up for the WADA charter. This is about the only way they will get out of this mess. Given the proclivities of the powerful vested interests involved in this, it would not surprise me if they are seriously looking at if this is possible, but it would be about as stupid as Abbott's knighting of Prince Phillip but be 100 times more damaging and would make us not only the laughing stock of the Commonwealth, but of the entire sporting world.

Interesting to note, the new State Governor is an AFL Commissioner, a senior judge, AND an Essendon fanatic, and was appointed by the Victorian Premier, also an Essendon tragic as is the global head of News Limited. The EFC have some very powerful people backing them on both sides of politics, and will be examining every angle to try and wiggle their way out of this. Fortunately, WADA has ultimate say, no matter how much the Anglo-Australian establishment might wish otherwise.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Dees2014

[RalphiusMaximus 6,102]

What continues to worry me about this whole fiasco is the difficulty involved in identifying the individuals who got each injection.

I have no doubt that ASADA has sufficient evidence to comfortably satisfy the tribunal that at least 30 syringes of a banned substance were emptied into the veins of a group of 34 Essendon players - but whether or not they can establish that all 34 got an injection and that not one syringe was lost or damaged is another matter.

If even just one syringe went astray the defence lawyers will have a ball arguing first one player , and then another ....and then another ... and etc,....... was the (un) lucky one to miss out!!

Surely the difficulty in this case lies in attaching dosages to particular individuals. Hird and his co-conspirators destroyed the trail to individuals long ago - which is why Worksafe should be queued up to prosecute the club regardless of the Tribunal's final decision!

Maybe if this were a criminal court, but we're talking about a lesser standard of proof here. There is no "beyond reasonable doubt." ASADA only need to show that the balance of probability is that they took them. Thus if they can show that 29 of 30 took them, odds are that this player did, and this player did, and this player did...

[bing181 9,411]

This will be followed by a case mounted against Hird in much the same way as Armstrong's coaches were prosecuted by USADA AND WADA after Armstrong got his life ban.

Just to be a pedant, the non-cyclists involved were all prosecuted together and at the same time as Armstrong. Some of them (e.g. Bruyneel) chose to contest the charges, which then went to arbitration at a later date. But there was only one investigation.

Edited February 11, 2015 by bing181

[bing181 9,411]

Maybe if this were a criminal court, but we're talking about a lesser standard of proof here. There is no "beyond reasonable doubt." ASADA only need to show that the balance of probability is that they took them. Thus if they can show that 29 of 30 took them, odds are that this player did, and this player did, and this player did...

If Dank goes into a room with vials of TB4, and players go into that room to be injected (with something), that's already enough. The confessions, forms and dosing schedules would be enough to tie it up.

If ASADA can comfortably place TB4 at Essendon, then the players are in big trouble.

Worth remembering is that Wade Lees was rubbed out for something he never even received.

[Ethan Tremblay 31,243]

Maybe if this were a criminal court, but we're talking about a lesser standard of proof here. There is no "beyond reasonable doubt." ASADA only need to show that the balance of probability is that they took them. Thus if they can show that 29 of 30 took them, odds are that this player did, and this player did, and this player did...

Technically incorrect.

Section 7.1 Anti-Doping policy (ASC) States that the standard of proof is greater than a mere balance of probability but less than proof beyond reasonable doubt.

Somewhere in between the two it would seem.