THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[Melbman2 226]

When running a programme as 'cutting edge' as this he should have been all over it. Instead he says he wrote a memo that was never received (dog ate my homework) and thousands of injections were carried out at a clinic across the road supposedly under his watch.

Yeah I reckon he should be deregistered..

Agreed.

The letter reads like a contrived after the fact ass covering. Was it really hand written and not email? Does he have an Essendon email account? Any email account that he uses professionally? Why not use that instead of hand writing something of such importance that there would be no possible duplicate nor proof of delivery or existence.

Any one in the workforce that uses email is taught in week 1 to "PUT IT IN AN EMAIL" for proof. The snail mail version of this is a REGISTERED LETTER with a photocopy! A flimsy memo for something so important FFS?

I might take 6 weeks off work without advising anyone and on my return drop a post dated letter in my bosses office, "sorry boss, I wrote you a letter, didn't you get it?"

"sorry boss for the 4 hour lunch break, I wrote you a letter, can't you find it?"

"Sorry boss, I didn't like my colleagues stripping the office bare and selling the furniture and computers for personal profit, but I wrote a letter, can't you find it?"

"The hand-written letter was intended for chief executive Ian Robson and his directors, and yet none of the above were aware of it until February this year.

That document was not seen by Evans until about one year later, shortly before the story broke" How very convenient, just before the story broke it pops into existence. Link From memory the "letter" wasn't found till AFTER the story broke.

"Lost" until the SHTF? Any fair minded person would have to be suspicious.

You could plant a market garden in this steaming pile of a story!!!

[Dr. Gonzo 22,600]

If Asada can demonstrate that TB4 made its way to the club and the players signed consent forms listing Thymosin I would think the onus would be on the players to prove that TB4 was not used, e.g. Disprove its supply or prove that it was destroyed.

Also the fact the injection schedule marries up with the recommended schedule for TB4.

The interesting thing in all this is how they've gone so hard after one substance when there were a number of questionable substances they could have pursued. Makes me think either this was the easiest one to marry up with the player statements or they thought this one was such a slam dunk they didn't have to worry about pursuing the others. Or the trail on the others went cold.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Dodging penalties by saying "But I was told it was OK by our doctor" is a recipe for rampant drug cheating. Sadly for the naive, deaf or inattentive, it can't be used as an excuse. It can be used to hang the doctor however.

Further, if they remember this now but didn't mention it in the initial interviews, they may get some funny looks.

[deefrag 277]

In defence of the Doc, one could easily confuse Hippocratic Oath with Hypocritic Oaf, sounding so similar and all . . .

[M_9 1,783]

On the Notice of Charge filed by the AFL against the EFC the AFL allege that 16 substances, including Thymosin, were administered to the players.

I'd be interested to know if ASADA found any of the substances on the premises (you'd expect so), if Thymosin was one of them, and if so was it tested (HPLC or chromatograpphy test).

[SaberFang 7,141]

Rather damning post from BF:

ASADA: Here is the consent form stating the players accept the use of Thymosin.
ASADA: Here is the email from EFC to Dank regarding Thymosin
ASADA: Here is the order from Dank to Alavi for Thymosin
ASADA: Here is the order from Alavi to Charter for Thymosin
ASADA: Here is the order from Charter to the manufacturer for Thymosin
ASADA: Here is the delivery from the Manufactur to Charter for Thymosin
ASADA: Here is the statement from the Manufacturer that the only Thymosin they supply is the prohibited Thymosin Beta 4
ASADA: Here is the delivery from Charter to Alavi for Thymosin (note, the only supply is from the manufacturer that states they only supply prohibited TB4)
ASADA: Here is the delivery from Alavi to Dank (note, the only supply is from Charter, from the manufacturer that states they only supply prohibited TB4)
ASADA: Here is Dank claiming to have destroyed the substance through a provider.
ASADA: Here is the provider claiming they didn't destroy anything.
ASADA: Here are the statements from 34 players stating they believed they were given Thymosin (note, the only supply is from Dank, from Charter, from the manufacturer that states they only supply prohibited TB4)
ASADA: Here are copies of text messages between various EFC players talking about Thymo injections they received
ASADA: Here is the claim from EFC that it was Thymomodulin
ASADA: Here is the claim from EFC that it was Thymosin Alpha 1
ASADA: Here is the claim from EFC that it was Thymomodulin again
ASADA: Here is the claim from EFC that it was Thymosin Alpha 1 again
ASADA: Here is the claim from EFC that it was Thymomodulin again
ASADA: Here is the claim from EFC that they don't know what it was, but it was definitely not prohibited.
ASADA: There is no documentary evidence of Thymosin Alpha 1 or Thymomodulin having been ordered, delivered or paid for by any channel through the Essendon Football Club
ASADA: Here is the documentary evidence (letter) from Dr Bruce Reid showing that he was actively excluded from the drug program and that he had serious concerns.
ASADA: Here is the documentary evidence (email and texts) from James Albert Hird asking other staff to pull Dr Reid back into line using "UN skills".
ASADA: Here are anecdotal reports by players through the media showing massive gains in just a couple of weeks of their new supplement program.
ASADA: Here is an interview with the program architect claiming to use prohibited Thymosin Beta 4, including his show of surprise at it being prohibited at all times in sport.
ASADA: Here is the evidence of Dank forging doctors signatures in order to have blood tests done that are clearly to ensure that markers of prohibited substances don't go beyond particular limits.
ASADA: Here is evidence of the EFC "Doctor Shopping" to get the answer they were looking for.
ASADA: Here is evidence of S Dank being deliberately leading, attempting to get a WADA employee to say a specific phrase that he could use to claim that the drugs were approved by WADA.

[Dees2014 2,377]

IIRC "The Doctor was not in" and had questioned the Coach (via a handy letter/email). http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-21/full-text-of-dr-bruce-reids-letter

Doc Reid may still have to answer for something regardless of his legal play stop the AFL action early in the piece. As club doctor if the players go down it looks pretty bad for him regardless of whether he wrote to Hird questioning him about off site injections and the questionable substances being used or not. He could of (and should have) advised the players not to take anything from the start.

In relation to any deals it may be a too Little too late. The Infraction Notices are out after being reviewed by all and sundry and I reckon they have a mounted a pretty good case. funny how the case is being heard and players now want to cut deals. What substantial assistance would ASADA need for them to consider reduction in penalty? If I was ASADA I would offer no deals as the time for deals was when you were investigating. It would have to be something mighty incriminating against their former team mates to warrant reduction.

Finally if you make a conscious choice to inject sunstances into your body without questioning any thing were you Duped or are you just not that bright? Players can only argue no fault only if they were unconcious or a substance was put in against thier will. Signing a waiver to be injected with a substance for a period of weeks away from the club smacks of complicincy more then anything else.

Give them 2 years already so we can get to all of the appeals.

Quite agree Felix. The players have been appallingly badly advised on this, particularly by Essendon. It seems their advice was framed in such a way to protect Hird and beggar their self interest. Once ESSENDON and Hird decided to fight (really at the time Little came to power), their future was doomed. ASADA has shown little interest in deals recently, and will take this to its logical conclusion is penalties all round. Edited January 23, 2015 by Dees2014

[Whispering_Jack 28,089]

Rather damning post from BF:

There's a substantial amount of evidence there to build up what is a circumstantial case against the players and officials of the Essendon Football Club and most of these aspects have been discussed from time to time through the pages of this and previous threads here on Demonland and elsewhere. The gathering of this sort of evidence has to be painstaking and laborious and explains why we're nearly two years down the track and only now seeing a distant light at the end of the tunnel. The players have already suffered pain and there's more on the way irrespective of the AFL Tribunal outcome: their reputations as clean sportsmen will be tarnished because of the clear cover up and the absence of records of what they ingested during the programme.

Those who planned and perpetrated this disgrace should be run out of the sport.

[old dee 22,981]

There's a substantial amount of evidence there to build up what is a circumstantial case against the players and officials of the Essendon Football Club and most of these aspects have been discussed from time to time through the pages of this and previous threads here on Demonland and elsewhere. The gathering of this sort of evidence has to be painstaking and laborious and explains why we're nearly two years down the track and only now seeing a distant light at the end of the tunnel. The players have already suffered pain and there's more on the way irrespective of the AFL Tribunal outcome: their reputations as clean sportsmen will be tarnished because of the clear cover up and the absence of records of what they ingested during the programme.

Those who planned and perpetrated this disgrace should be run out of the sport.

But will they?

I suspect not.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,389]

I really hope that if the players get suspended, it's for the entire season, not for only part of the season.

If the players are suspended for say half the season, you'll have some teams playing Essendon at full strength, while other teams could play them with a bunch of state leaguers which would mean an automatic 4 points just for showing up. The entire season will be compromised, even ruined.

[hardtack 10,136]

Rather damning post from BF:

Yes, but is it accurate/factual representation of ASADA's presentation?

[deefrag 277]

I really hope that if the players get suspended, it's for the entire season, not for only part of the season.

If the players are suspended for say half the season, you'll have some teams playing Essendon at full strength, while other teams could play them with a bunch of state leaguers which would mean an automatic 4 points just for showing up. The entire season will be compromised, even ruined.

Ronald Dale said "they are only eighteen men with two arms and two legs just like you!" Today it's a few more than eighteen but the message would

be the same: you play the team in the other jumper and win. Season 2015 might have some peculiarities but that's the price you pay for a drug free competition.

[deanox 8,770]

March 7 is the date of the Bombers first NAB cup fixture. Assuming they get a verdict before then, the penalties will be back dated to the date the infraction notices were delivered (except arguably for any player who played in international rules), which I believe was November 14. 6 months makes it May (players miss 6 rounds), 12 months makes it the full year. If the players play on March 7 before a verdict, and are found guilty, bans will start from then (6 months makes it September).

[Willmoy1947 3,814]

Why would any innocent "doctor" stay at this club unless they are irrevocably embroiled in the mire...

[Crompton's the man 635]

Just an observation from the far distance

From where I sit, closed hearings stink to high heaven of impending cover-up

If light or minimum penalties are handed down as is surely in the best business interests of the AFL the stench of corrupt and compromised dealings will pervade the next ten years ( not that the Herald-Sun would kick up - not suggesting that)

[old dee 22,981]

Just an observation from the far distance

From where I sit, closed hearings stink to high heaven of impending cover-up

If light or minimum penalties are handed down as is surely in the best business interests of the AFL the stench of corrupt and compromised dealings will pervade the next ten years ( not that the Herald-Sun would kick up - not suggesting that)

I agree I have been saying that for some time.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

I think the only way to do this investigation, is closed.

Who wants the media making a circus of things.

Let them do their job and take all the time needed to come up with the correct decision.

AS LONG AS IT'S GUILTY!

[old dee 22,981]

I think the only way to do this investigation, is closed.

Who wants the media making a circus of things.

Let them do their job and take all the time needed to come up with the correct decision.

AS LONG AS IT'S GUILTY!

You can have any colour you like as long as it is black Pig Dog

[Dees2014 2,377]

March 7 is the date of the Bombers first NAB cup fixture. Assuming they get a verdict before then, the penalties will be back dated to the date the infraction notices were delivered (except arguably for any player who played in international rules), which I believe was November 14. 6 months makes it May (players miss 6 rounds), 12 months makes it the full year. If the players play on March 7 before a verdict, and are found guilty, bans will start from then (6 months makes it September).

Afraid you are much more optimistic than me. I think it will go something like this. The AFL will reprimand the players and hird will get off. WADA will come in and send it to CAS. The players will all get two years from the date of the WADA appeal and hird, the doc, and most of the other coaches involved will get rubbed out for a long long time.

[Lucifers Hero 37,323]

Afraid you are much more optimistic than me. I think it will go something like this. The AFL will reprimand the players and hird will get off. WADA will come in and send it to CAS. The players will all get two years from the date of the WADA appeal and hird, the doc, and most of the other coaches involved will get rubbed out for a long long time.

1. Are you implying the tribunal of Chairman Mr David Jones, a former County Court Judge, Mr John Nixon, a former County Court Judge and Mr Wayne Henwood, a barrister and former VFL player are AFL stooges? I would hope these learned gentleman would put a higher value on their personal and professional integrity.

2. A 'reprimand' implies a penalty for 'guilty' to charges. So, surely they can't just say: 'yes, based on 'comfortable satisfaction' you took the illegal gear (ie guilty) but we will let you off with a slap over the wrist (a reprimand).' Its either 'Guilty': penalise according to ASADA/WADA rules; or 'Innocent': let them go.

3. A 'reprimand' looks like a 50/50 each way bet.

[red and blue forever 785]

if the players are suspended for the season, and essendon finish on the bottom of the ladder due to them having to play mostly playing vfl players, does that mean they get pick one at the draft???

[hardtack 10,136]

if the players are suspended for the season, and essendon finish on the bottom of the ladder due to them having to play mostly playing vfl players, does that mean they get pick one at the draft???

I would expect that part of the AFL's punishment would be no draft participation for a couple of years at least.

[FireOath 290]

Yeah they'd make it similar to when they finished 9th so they don't get a priority pick.

[deefrag 277]

Get ya Herald, Sportin glohobe! Yep I usta be a paper boy back in the day!

Article from the Herald (The Sydney Age, no paywall!!)

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/suspended-past-and-present-essendon-players-may-need-afl-approval-to-play-nab-cup-20150123-12x5yk.html

[deefrag 277]

Get ya Herald, Sportin glohobe! Yep I usta be a paper boy back in the day!

Article from the Herald (The Sydney Age, no paywall!!)

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/suspended-past-and-present-essendon-players-may-need-afl-approval-to-play-nab-cup-20150123-12x5yk.html