Jump to content

AFL National Draft 2014 Picks 2 & 3


Sigil

Recommended Posts

And yet you trumpet McCartin.

Do you not understand the logic of the argument ??

At draft time Toumpas was considered at top 4 pick

At draft time McCartin is considered at top 3 pick

I am not for a minute suggesting McCartin won't make it - but as it stands now he could be Wines or a Toumpas and I am amused by your "insane love".

Nutbean - ignore the guy and move on.

The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

You are not going to get self-reflection from picket fence, you are not going to get an exploration of his own logic.

Best left alone IMO.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nutbean - ignore the guy and move on.

The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

You are not going to get self-reflection from picket fence, you are not going to get an exploration of his own logic.

Best left alone IMO.

To quote Al Pacino

"just when I thought I was out they pull me back in again"

(PF - I know it was you...you broke my heart...you broke my heart)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I can tell, this isn’t an easy choice.

McCartin’s endurance is the biggest concern about him IMO. The AFL game today is played in a ‘concertina’ fashion, whereby forwards must push all the way up the ground to half back and then work all the way back to present inside forward 50. Also against McCartin, I feel that contested marking is also an overrated skill in junior football, as there are more one-on-one marking contests than in the AFL. This is not to say I wouldn’t take McCartin (I haven’t done the homework) but I would need to gain comfort that his skillset could translate to the AFL game.

With Lever, I like his bio. If he can develop into a midfielder he looks a pro-type AFL player. But I think the risk of doing his ACL again should not be understated (as the risk of re-injury is quite high and the impact is devastating). While believing in drafting ‘best available’, I also don’t think we need a key defender given we have Frost, McDonald, Garland, Dunn and Howe on our list.

Laverde is the other name being mentioned and he looks to have a lot of AFL qualities, but hasn’t shown himself to be a productive midfielder.

I definitely wouldn’t take Wright at #3, as ruckman need to be clearly superior to the rest of the draft pool to be worth the risk of an early selection.

Hopefully the Saints do us a favour and take McCartin.

Edited by Fat Tony
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Lever, I like his bio. If he can develop into a midfielder he looks a pro-type AFL player. But I think the risk of doing his ACL again should not be understated (as the risk of re-injury is quite high and the impact is devastating).

This has been disputed by Jako13 who seems to know of what he speaks when it comes to such injuries

Link to comment
Share on other sites

West Coast took a player at pick 3 in the 2001 draft that had 2 shoulder reco's..... from memory he went ok.......

The other interesting thing about Judd that highlights the folly of making black and white calls on 18 year old draftees is that even after a player starts playing AFL and everyone gets to see him, how a players is ranked in comparison to other players can change.

I have made this point before so apologies for repetition but there are any number of examples where a player hailed as a gun early in his career has been matched or surpassed in terms of standing in the game by other players who were initially not though to be as good as the gun. After 2-3 years most footy people would have said the Hawks made a blunder not taking Judd and instead taking Hodge. Without debating their relative merits, with 2 premierships, a brownlow and 2 Norm Smiths fewer people would make that case now.

Nickat v Watts is another example. After a year footy people were universal in their view that the dees made a big mistake. And now, some 5 years later? Well, still lots of people would argue we erred but i doubt that view is still universal and if Watts has a big year and Nik Nat has another poor one even fewer people would argue we made a clear error.

The point is, it is folly making calls about untried kids and also fraught to make early calls on players in terms of how they rank and how wise their selection was, even after 1 -2 years of playing AFL footy. Some players take time to get to an elite level. Gibbs is an excellent example. He was brilliant last year and no doubt was happy to respond to those who suggested Carlton erred in taking him so high. Watson, Ablett and Hawkins are other examples.

Conversely people were lavish in their praise of Rich and Hurley early on but i would argue both have flat lined and the case for them being guns (as they were widely touted in their first 2 years) is pretty hard to make.

The obvious current example of this naive tendency is Wines v The Toump. History tells us that there is every chance the Toump will be a better player, even if shrill posters and some footy people could not countenance such a heretical idea. Time will tell.

Edited by binman
  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites


ACLs are rarely collision injuries, just thought I'd add that.

And if we took Darling off his 17 year old form we'd have done really well.

Anyway it's all a bit irrelevant. We'll draft who we draft and worry about it then.

And if we took Sellar, Callum Bartlett or Swift on their 18 yo form we would've taken them at pick 1 if we had it.

Edited by TheoX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

West Coast took a player at pick 3 in the 2001 draft that had 2 shoulder reco's..... from memory he went ok.......

The shoulder is not a weight bearing joint, totally different kettle of fish to a knee reco. Lever is a massive risk, don't care if he's a great rehabber or leader or whatever, we need players who actually get on the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has been disputed by Jako13 who seems to know of what he speaks when it comes to such injuries

Jako13 clearly doesn't give much regard to evidence based practice though. He'd be using the same skills and knowledge he learned decades ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And if we took Sellar, Callum Bartlett or Swift

Swift and Sellar were highly regarded as 16-17y.o (considered pick 1-2 calibre) but fell away badly with differing circumstances or injuries.

Lever missing 12 months and having no development in that time must be a concern.

He sounds strong mentally but speaking from experience coming back from a knee is hard as it takes another 12 months to trust your knee or always trying to protect it.

The argument seems to be Lever or Pat.

MFC needs to pick the best player, not who's the safest.

It's still Pat for both for me.

Edited by jacey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other interesting thing about Judd that highlights the folly of making black and white calls on 18 year old draftees is that even after a player starts playing AFL and everyone gets to see him, how a players is ranked in comparison to other players can change.

I have made this point before so apologies for repetition but there are any number of examples where a player hailed as a gun early in his career has been matched or surpassed in terms of standing in the game by other players who were initially not though to be as good as the gun. After 2-3 years most footy people would have said the Hawks made a blunder not taking Judd and instead taking Hodge. Without debating their relative merits, with 2 premierships, a brownlow and 2 Norm Smiths fewer people would make that case now.

Nickat v Watts is another example. After a year footy people were universal in their view that the dees made a big mistake. And now, some 5 years later? Well, still lots of people would argue we erred but i doubt that view is still universal and if Watts has a big year and Nik Nat has another poor one even fewer people would argue we made a clear error.

The point is, it is folly making calls about untried kids and also fraught to make early calls on players in terms of how they rank and how wise their selection was, even after 1 -2 years of playing AFL footy. Some players take time to get to an elite level. Gibbs is an excellent example. He was brilliant last year and no doubt was happy to respond to those who suggested Carlton erred in taking him so high. Watson, Ablett and Hawkins are other examples.

Conversely people were lavish in their praise of Rich and Hurley early on but i would argue both have flat lined and the case for them being guns (as they were widely touted in their first 2 years) is pretty hard to make.

The obvious current example of this naive tendency is Wines v The Toump. History tells us that there is every chance the Toump will be a better player, even if shrill posters and some footy people could not countenance such a heretical idea. Time will tell.

Yes Binman But how long to you wait

In my opinion we have waited far too long in recent history

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Jako13 clearly doesn't give much regard to evidence based practice though. He'd be using the same skills and knowledge he learned decades ago.

First and only warning from me Theo. Never ever have a go at my skill set and knowkedge base when you know absolutely nothing about me. My whole work is based on evidence. And the evidence shows that ACL's happen, and afl level most likely they only happen once in a career. There is no place for attacking ones professional credentials on a public forum. You may disagree with me and that's fine but let's not get all personal here.

One question though and I will not be entertaining anymore on the matter. What would be your thoughts if we recruited Tex Walker who has recently recovered from the same injury?

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My favourite bit about this all is that everyone thinks we'll either get a superstar or a dud depending on a choice.

I bet Richmond with pick 12 or even Hawthorn with pick 31 would gladly take whoever we pick at 3 be it McCartin, Lever or one of the mids.

Of course we should aim for a superstar and take the best player. But we just need to pick a guy and develop them in to an above average player, that's the most important thing.

The picks above demonstrate it. Roughy and Lewis were very decent early but really took years of development to become stars. All 4 of those Geelong stars were the same. And the order in which they became good players is almost inverse to the heights that their careers got to. It was Kelly, Bartel/SJ then Ablett early, now it's the reverse.

Only Franklin was the rare freak who is just a class above from very early and he went pick 5 anyway! Even the Hawks didn't take him with their first pick!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am still going with my 'feeling' we'll do something a little left field. I think Melbourne sees value in Lever but were considering him at around 10-12 if we got a trade back pick after a Tyson-esque deal. With 2 and 3 im going to suggest its Brayshaw and La Verde.

2 mids that will take the game on after some development

It's just a thought , an opinion.

We'll know soon enough

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

First and only warning from me Theo. Never ever have a go at my skill set and knowkedge base when you know absolutely nothing about me. My whole work is based on evidence. And the evidence shows that ACL's happen, and afl level most likely they only happen once in a career. There is no place for attacking ones professional credentials on a public forum. You may disagree with me and that's fine but let's not get all personal here.

One question though and I will not be entertaining anymore on the matter. What would be your thoughts if we recruited Tex Walker who has recently recovered from the same injury?

What about the long history of hereditary weakness in some peoples ligaments, which strongly leads to reoccurrence or greater chance of the injury eg Menzel family

Or the science of core weakness regarding hips, calves or tight echilles leading to individuals being highly likely to suffer injury such as an ACL rupture due to there body not being capable of controlling certain movement ?

These are things that are either unavoidable or take a long long time to rectify, and certainly aren't rectified during a 12 month rehab program, as the stress is way to high.

No professional, just things I picked up through my experience.

Also some peoples tissue is not strong enough to successfully create the new ligament during the graft, which leads to a very high rate of reoccurrence and can't be diagnosed until the rupture happens again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am still going with my 'feeling' we'll do something a little left field. I think Melbourne sees value in Lever but were considering him at around 10-12 if we got a trade back pick after a Tyson-esque deal. With 2 and 3 im going to suggest its Brayshaw and La Verde.

2 mids that will take the game on after some development

It's just a thought , an opinion.

We'll know soon enough

Correct and we should not be shy in picking kids who won't play immediately. Our new structure off field and the apparent coaching group mindset should be backed in to develop them into A graders in time... Not overnight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing I know for sure in this whole episode, is that you are either right or wrong. Simple really.

Am sitting back happy about that rtight now!

Na, just need us to not draft Lever lol.

You will be disappointed then!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    ALLY’S FIELDS by Meggs

    It was a sunny morning at Casey Fields, as Demon supporters young and old formed a guard of honour for fan favourite and 50-gamer Alyssa Bannan.  Banno’s banner stated the speedster was the ‘fastest 50 games’ by an AFLW player ever.   For Dees supporters, today was not our day and unfortunately not for Banno either. A couple of opportunities emerged for our number 6 but alas there was no sizzle.   Brisbane atoned for last week’s record loss to North Melbourne, comprehensively out

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    AFLW Melbourne Demons 1

    GOOD MORNING by Meggs

    If you are driving or training it to Cranbourne on Saturday, don’t forget to set your alarm clock. The Melbourne Demons play the reigning premiers Brisbane Lions at Casey Fields this Saturday, with the bounce of the ball at 11:05am.  Yes, that’s AM.   The AFLW fixture shows deference to the AFL men’s finals games.  So, for the men it’s good afternoon and good evening and for the women it’s good morning.     The Lions were wounded last week by 44 points, their highest ever los

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    AFLW Melbourne Demons 3

    HORE ON FIRE by Meggs

    The 40,000 seat $319 million redeveloped Kardinia Park Stadium was nowhere near capacity last night but the strong, noisy contingent of Melbourne supporters led by the DeeArmy journeyed to Geelong to witness a high-quality battle between two of the best teams in AFLW.   The Cats entered the arena to the blasting sounds of Zombie Nation and made a hot start kicking the first 2 goals. They brought tremendous forward half pressure, and our newly renovated defensive unit looked shaky.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    AFLW Melbourne Demons 11

    REMATCH by Meggs

    The Mighty Demons take on the confident Cats this Saturday night at the recently completed $319 million redeveloped GMHBA Stadium, with the bounce of the ball at 7:15pm. Our last game of 2023 was an agonisingly close 5-point semi-final loss to Geelong, and we look forward to Melbourne turning the tables this week. Practice match form was scratchy for both teams with the Demons losing practice matches to Carlton and Port Adelaide, while the Cats beat Collingwood but then lost to Essendo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    AFLW Melbourne Demons

    WELCOME 2024 by Meggs

    It’s been hard to miss the seismic global momentum happening in Women’s sport of late. The Matildas have been playing to record sell-out crowds across Australia and ‘Mary Fowler is God’ is chalked onto footpaths everywhere. WNBA basketball rookie sensation Caitlin Clark has almost single-handedly elevated her Indiana Fever team to unprecedented viewership, attendances and playoffs in the USA.   Our female Aussie Paris 2024 Olympians won 13 out of Australia’s all-time record 18 gol

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    AFLW Melbourne Demons 3

    EPILOGUE by Whispering Jack

    I sit huddled in near darkness, the only light coming through flickering embers in a damp fireplace, the room in total silence after the thunderstorm died. I wonder if they bothered to restart the game.  No point really. It was over before it started. The team’s five star generals in defence and midfield ruled out of the fray, a few others missing in action against superior enemy firepower and too few left to fly the flag for the field marshal defiantly leading his outnumbered army int

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 6

    PODCAST: Rd 24 vs Collingwood

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 26th August @ 7:30pm. Join Binman & I as we analyse the Demons loss at the MCG against the Magpies in the Round 24. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat LIVE: ht

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 26

    VOTES: Rd 24 vs Collingwood

    Captain Max Gawn leads Vice Captain Jack Viney and Trent Rivers in the Demonland Player of the Year. The injured pair of Steven May & Christian Petracca round out the Top 5. Your votes please. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 28

    POSTGAME: Rd 24 vs Collingwood

    The Dees played insipid, error riddled & uninspiring footy all night and in a lightning delayed match they eventually succumbed to Collingwood by 46 points at the MCG in the final game of the year. Thank God this season is finally over. Bring on 2025. 

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 251
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...