POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[Axis of Bob 11,799]

I am not sure what to make of Fitzy's game today. It is tough for a 200 cm forward when the game plan was clearly not to kick it into the forward line! I think a lot of teams might struggle to hit the scoreboard with our game plan. Surely a couple of long bombs to the top of the square would be better than going sideways and then kicking short to 50/50 contest and seeing the ball swept down the other end time and time and time again. Same for Howe as well..

The problem was that Fitz wasn't competing or presenting well. His speed is important, but as a go to forward he doesn't have the strength to compete consistently. Same with Howe. That's where Dawes, Hogan and Clark are important.

[deeko 952]

Wow - was really tough being a Dees man today. We forgot to turn up for the first quarter, and then couldn't get past half-forward for the rest of the match. But I come away fairly critical of Roos' coaching today.

Too many times Byrnes the only man inside 50, with one opponent standing beside him 10-15cm taller, and one spare WCE player always willing to fall back and make it two on one. This happened while Fitzy and Pedo led time and time again up through the 50m arc being generally ignored by our midfielders. This was never corrected and I did not see the runner come out to these players. Very bemusing.

For at least half the game, watching WCE midfielders run past our players, we set up in the centre after another WCE goal with Trengove on one wing, Toumpas on the other, Michie, Cross and Jones in the middle. Could Roos not see the pace of WCE?

And he chooses not to play Blease or Evans, two players with genuine outside pace.

I know the game wasn't lost only because of these things, but they were glaring mistakes rarely, if ever, corrected.

I like the post Maldonboy but I worry about these two just not being good enough either. Blease not enough of the pill and Evans no good when he gets the pill.

I'm happy sticking with Trenners and Toump as I still have faith in them.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Only positive for me was our tackling and defensive pressure, our general endeavour after qtr time.

But other than that, very few positives.

Interesting to see how we go next week.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,171]

We set up poorly at the clearances in the first and gave them an easy out. We handed them goals in the first with basic skill errors. After quarter time we were beaten by our inability to have a forward target anyone was confident to kick to. We looked better with Dunn forward but he is not going to crash a pack and bring the ball to ground. We have too many players who run into each others space removing any easy short kicks except for backward and sideways. We need to bring in some speed and remove some of the one pace outside players at present. Trengove and Michie would be the first two I would start with.

[picket fence 17,146]

First of all allow me to congratulate you on receiving an honour Viscount.

Re Fitzy - i no longer think he is up to it.

Re Howe - Has totally lost confidence and has no idea what his role is.

Ahem read my earlier post which said categorically that he should not play after effects of concussion previous week. It aint rocket science! But for some namely MFC it clearly is.

[Tatu 416]

We won the contested and uncontested possessions, the tackle count, 1%'s and took more marks inside 50. Our efficiency was 72% to 74%.

Got to ask the question, am I reading the stats correctly? Unbelievable we can get towelled up by that much with those numbers.

we got killed by the turn overs early on... To many easy goals... West coast hardly got out of second gear.... They jump a head early and cruised...

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Pedo should never play forward again, and Dunn should play forward until we get some keys back.

[Guest]

Am I the only only who gets extremely [censored] off when Trengove marks the ball and signals to slow the play down...? So often he does it. Games like today we needed to move the ball fast into the 50 before the likes of Naitanui, Cox and Sinclair were able to drop back. There is literally no logic behind slowing the play up at that stage.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5th season mate.

He aint going to get quicker.

He cannot play in the midfield being that slow.

It's very hard to play anywhere on the field in today's fast break end to end running game without a turn of pace or the ability/agility to find it or work your way out of a tackle or congestion. You also need it to quickly find your opponent once the opposition gain's possession and close down space when working a zone/press defence / forward press.

Even KPPs and KPFs need a turn of pace to get a break on their opponent on the lead, or to make up ground on a KPF when defending in order to kill the ball. About the only position where it isn't a must is the main ruck role. But even if ruckman don't have pace the quality ones who survive and prosper at AFL level, more often than not, have to have some sort of weapon. Like ..... a great pack mark (eg., Cox), a significant height advantage ( eg., Sandilands) or great athletic ability/agility (eg., Nic Nat / Ryder).

Grimes and Trengove would have to be seriously considered in any end of year trades in this regard and i think Bail/Strauss would also need to be considered.

We desperately need a speed injection on the outside and off HB going forward or we will not win a game this year, even if with both Dawes/Hogan on the park together and fully fit.

We are playing a "slow tempo" stop start style of possession footy off HB and through the middle once we gain possession. This style is ok for maintaining possession (when we don't produce a panick clanger, which is far too often) and protecting a lead in the last 5 minutes or so of each quarter or preventing the opposition from scoring 2 to 3 cheap goals in overtime or to hold on to the ball to win a match.

Playing this possession style for 80% or so of match time is not the answer. All it does is ensure we will have most of our possessions in the back half, chipping the ball around from one side of the ground to the other as the opposition has had so much time to push up and press and also set up a wall one kick behind play. Then if we manage to push it past center, the movement is slow enough (generally side to side) it allows the opposition's defence enough time to slip an extra number or 2 back (from the mid/ruckman) to crowd out any potential lead up through the middle. We are then forced to look for targets out wide. Low percentage shot on goal resulting more often than not in a point or out on the full. To easy for most quality AFL sides to counter.

In short, the possession "keepings off" style of game we are presently playing should be the 20% rule at the correct game time during a quarter.

We need more players off HB (Garland) and through the middle fast paced enough and hopefully skilled enough to instead play the fast break/run and carry (yes that means bouncing the ball and sometimes having opponents run at you, sometimes baulking them, sometimes tacking the tackle but keeping your arms free to handball to next free player etc... ie., creating the free man and overlap) "Geelong" style of game 80% or so of game time.

Only then will we see a team that can truly start to compete against mediocre AFL teams who are already doing this and doing it quite well. When our forwards (if we finally get them fit and ready to play) then start to click in, this will also then straighten us up much more often when coming in (instead of low percentage out wide attempts to pass).

Yes, it's easy to sit back behind a keyboard and say these things.

But this is what needs to come to pass if we're to ever see this team truly become competitive against mediocre teams.

When it does, player's will feel it, their confidence will slowly return. And believe it or not folks, this club will actually start WINNING games!

Edited March 30, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

Ahem read my earlier post which said categorically that he should not play after effects of concussion previous week. It aint rocket science! But for some namely MFC it clearly is.

The thing is Picket - if they put them on the field then, ipso facto, they are fit and can only be judged on their performance - or lack thereof.

[Deestar3 167]

I think it is more likely that roos will stay than go after two years. If anyone believes that we will be competitive with no forward line & no back up support to spencer ...plus garland , viney, Kent etc you are delusional .. Just get into your psyche that it will be a year of building confidence individually & in a team environment....getting players fit & cherry ripe for seasons ahead not just the next few weeks. There are many positives that unfortunately are not reflected on the scoreboard & I for one, who has paid my membership, will be content to watch the rebuild through year. However if we get the fore mentioned players back & don't improve I will also (not happily) eat humble pie. We have an excellent administration, an excellent & proven coaching panel & I am going to hang on for the ride.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Am I the only only who gets extremely [censored] off when Trengove marks the ball and signals to slow the play down...? So often he does it. Games like today we needed to move the ball fast into the 50 before the likes of Naitanui, Cox and Sinclair were able to drop back. There is literally no logic behind slowing the play up at that stage.

Agreed, no idea why they slow it down. It gave WCE's talls a chance to flood our forward line and make marking (and scoring) impossible. West Coast on the other hand, every time we turned it over, ran straight towards their forward line in waves of 4 or 5 players and were virtually impossible to catch. They converted into goals about 5 times in this manner.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Lamashtu

[rufus 1,162]

Man it's fun watching when one of our players has it 70 metres out, waits just the right amount of time for the opposition to get all 18 of their players in the spaces and then genuinely appears to attempt to spot up an opposition player on a lead.

That again was not professional sport standard. Another opponent that looked completely bored by having to take the field against us. and it's embarrassing to be able to say that was nowhere near the worst performance I've seen lately from the MFC.

Hate to say it but there's no point in us being in this league anymore. We are a drag on our own supporters and a waste of time for opponents.

Don't like the game plan either. How about at least trying to move it with some speed. Yeah Hawthorn play possession football but they generally move forward not backwards and they break whenever they get a sniff.

And those champion data ratings are funny. Trengove, Watts and Grimes finished with positive numbers today. For different reasons I think I may have seen the 3 worst individual games by experienced players in the history of the game. Absolutely pathetic. No excuse for the mistakes, the lethargy or the ineptitude.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

We are clearly playing a lot better football than last year. If people can't see that you are blind. Yes we were smashed so would any team be if you took out there 3 key forwards, two best ruckmen, your ruck rover and best defender. Some people here need to get a fair dinkum grip.

We have to fart-ars about all the time as we have no 'get out of jail' kick at all. Spencer & Fitz play small, neither take pack parks and are useless in pack situations. As for our other key forward Pedo, well we all know he isn't good enough to play as a key forward. No more needs to be said. (although I didn't mind some of his efforts in the backline today).

Good for you deeko! You make very important points and those who cannot see them don't really know their footy very well. You are a loyal supporter and not a knocker. To suggest that our boys didn't try is absolute garbage. One only has to look at the CONTESTED POSSESSIONS count to see that our endeavour was first rate all day.

[Nasher 33,613]

Pedo should never play forward again, and Dunn should play forward until we get some keys back.

Dunn forward makes a good plan 'B' and worked well today, but he's also a pretty important player coming out of our backline. I'm happy to leave him where he's playing his best footy.

[Striker475 696]

Throw a blanket over 15 players on the list. None of them are good enough.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Dunn has to stay back. It would effectively take one of our only currently effective players out of the game.

[Pipefitter 2,159]

Grimes is becoming Nick Maxwell like. This is not a compliment.

[picket fence 17,146]

The thing is Picket - if they put them on the field then, ipso facto, they are fit and can only be judged on their performance - or lack thereof.

Agree I am an advocate that if you are concussed you have a mandatory week of. even more so if subbed of!

I suppose it highlighted how desperate we were for big men. Just glad Fitz didn't receive another knock . Questions would then have been asked I'm sure!

[Return to Glory 8,435]

Man it's fun watching when one of our players has it 70 metres out, waits just the right amount of time for the opposition to get all 18 of their players in the spaces and then genuinely appears to attempt to spot up an opposition player on a lead.

That again was not professional sport standard. Another opponent that looked completely bored by having to take the field against us. and it's embarrassing to be able to say that was nowhere near the worst performance I've seen lately from the MFC.

Hate to say it but there's no point in us being in this league anymore. We are a drag on our own supporters and a waste of time for opponents.

Don't like the game plan either. How about at least trying to move it with some speed. Yeah Hawthorn play possession football but they generally move forward not backwards and they break whenever they get a sniff.

And those champion data ratings are funny. Trengove, Watts and Grimes finished with positive numbers today. For different reasons I think I may have seen the 3 worst individual games by experienced players in the history of the game. Absolutely pathetic. No excuse for the mistakes, the lethargy or the ineptitude.

I take it you're a little disappointed.

[Return to Glory 8,435]

The thing that concerns me is that, within 5 minutes it stopped being entertainment and quickly became lions v Christians.

[dl4e 5,851]

Grimes is becoming Nick Maxwell like. This is not a compliment.

Yeah and Maxwell is better. Worst mistaker of the past two weeks.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

The thing that concerns me is that, within 5 minutes it stopped being entertainment and quickly became lions v Christians.

They were eagles RTG but your point is taken. Actually they were like those big arse kicking eagles in Lord of the Rings.

[Guest]

The next 22 rounds will be a time for thinking and strong characters.

Paul Roos needs to think over the next 22 rounds if he can deliver the change needed to this club in 2-3 years. I get the feeling that it will take longer. If PR leaves in 3 years time and the place is JUST starting to turn, then him leaving will have a detrimental effect. He talks about the scars the playing group have. I think if he walks before the job is done then it will only compound those scars. Is his departure in 1-2 years playing on their minds? One who has said this is a concern, James Frawley, seems to want to be elsewhere.
The playing group also need to think about those scars and how much of that is legitimate and how much of those scars are excuses. The problem now is that in years gone by, they could cast doubt on the coach as the two blokes before Roos had never proven if they could actually coach or not. Roos has proven he can coach. If this happens consistently, then what does that say about them?
And finally, this club will need some steel and backbone going into the next little stanza. That doesn't mean that the players get pulled together and chewed out. That doesn't mean the players get dropped. That doesn't mean the coach comes out and issues a mea culpa. We need to get our s*** together and try to establish as settled a team as possible. Players can get second chances but if you aren't pulling your weight, your chances may run out.

[Grimes is Great 183]

Trengove is so slow, it's like he's running on the spot. I think he will always struggle at Afl due to a lack of pace.

Shame...