Practice Match - Melbourne v Hawthorn @ Casey Fields

[Hannibal 5,814]

The posters who are still banging on about how we have made a huge error taking Toumpas, the dogs said they'd take him at 5 if we passed on him, he was clearly more highly rated

It's an opinion. It's commentary.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

The posters who are still banging on about how we have made a huge error taking Toumpas, the dogs said they'd take him at 5 if we passed on him, he was clearly more highly rated

Who is rated where on draft day is irrelevant in that argument.

Anyway we have Toumpas, it will be interesting to see how we respond to developing him, and how he responds in turn.

[whatwhat say what 22,700]

Toumpas certainly needs an extended spell of playing vfl.

He may have had a great summer on the track, but his actual playing form on the park has been bitterly disappointing.

He looks a mile off it at senior level. He also looks a hell of a lot stockier and slower than he did in the sanfl.

Personally I doubt whether he's going to make it an an outside mid at afl level. He's too slow by half, and just jogs around. His hands in close looks okay so he might be able to convert to an inside player, but it'll basically take a football re education on his behalf.

I advocated taking him over Wines if available but he's miles behind Ollie, who looks ready to keep getting better entering his second season.

[rjay 24,887]

Toumpas certainly needs an extended spell of playing vfl.

He may have had a great summer on the track, but his actual playing form on the park has been bitterly disappointing.

He looks a mile off it at senior level. He also looks a hell of a lot stockier and slower than he did in the sanfl.

Personally I doubt whether he's going to make it an an outside mid at afl level. He's too slow by half, and just jogs around. His hands in close looks okay so he might be able to convert to an inside player, but it'll basically take a football re education on his behalf.

I advocated taking him over Wines if available but he's miles behind Ollie, who looks ready to keep getting better entering his second season.

Same here and I agree with what you have written. At this stage I'm very disappointed in Jimmy, I hope he can get it together and I know it is early days.

[Satyriconhome 10,728]

For all the 'young' players such as Toumpas, listen to what Roos says in his post agame presser

I assume if we get everybody fit, if one of the young players isn't cutting it at AFL level, they will spend some time developing in VFL, he wants to see first

The only concern I have, for the first few weeks, if Roos can't manufacture a working forward structure, we are shot

[Alcho Dee 269]

Any stats from the game?

[Damo 3,344]

The only concern I have, for the first few weeks, if Roos can't manufacture a working forward structure, we are shot

This in a nutshell, has been my thinking since just before Christmas when it looked like we would have a full list.

If we had the chance to get an early win, especially the 1st game, we could get a roll on and end up with 8 or so. Winning begets winning.

As it is, well I just hope we win against the saints.

[rjay 24,887]

Saying yesterday was disappointing would be an understatement. It was unacceptable and reading between Roos lines I think that's the message the players would have received after the game, he's too good a media performer to come out and say it in the media even though, I think it was Barrett was firing in some leading questions.

I think the main thing that stands out for me is that it is not a quick fix. I thought the talent on the list might be good enough for us to get a bit of a lift and that still may be the case but to get to the top level is going to take some time.

Given that seems to be the case I believe that Jackson and Roos can't just come in for a couple of years and hand over to understudies before the job is well in hand. As a club we need these 2 key men to commit to at least the next 3 seasons, they can't swan in for a couple of years, wave the magic wand and say all is well, we'll be off now.

These guys are surely smart enough to know it just doesn't work that way.

[Jack Jack 415]

I guess after making the epic journey down to Casey yesterday I should put in my 2 cents worth.

The obvious difference in the match to me was skill. Hawks players had the confidence that their team mate would be able to hit a target, be there for support, make good position or a good contest. I saw this a little in the Geelong match, but the Melbourne players would handall too much, break under pressure and turnover the ball. Delivery by foot was also a little haphazard. It seems to be a confidence issue manifested in poor skills, probably a noticeable observation for most. Again, in the Geelong match, frequently there'd be generally one player going up for the contest and a player waiting to crumb, yesterday I saw too many contests of old where 2 Dees would go for the same mark. Lack of confidence, lack of communication, just bad habits I guess.

Kennedy-Harris I believe was a sub (along with Georgio and Viney), and only came on in the second half. His efforts where noticeable and certainly added a lot of energy to our performance when he was on. I'd be very surprised if he didn't play in the 1st round. It's hard to knock Viney's performance, he was definitely giving it everything, just needs a bit more composure with his disposal.

As has been mentioned by previous posters, I also noticed Watts getting into good positions on numerous occasions, but was largely ignored for his efforts. Had a few clangers too. I was under the impression that Strauss and Watts were some of our better kicks, but it didn't seem to stop them from turning over the ball (although, who didn't!)

Michie, Vince, Tyson and Cross seemed to do reasonably well. I'd hate to think how we'd be without that influx of midfielders.

Not feeling particularly positive about the whole experience, 8 hours round trip, delayed in traffic and got there late, partway through the second quarter when the score was already starting to blow out. But then again, it's never been easy being a Melbourne supporter has it?

Random observations:

It's hard not to feel some admiration for Roughy, not only was he kicking a bag and generally making life miserable for the Dees, but he also found time to replace divets in the field and fetch the ball for the umpires.

Delta Goodrem made an appearance at the game. And no, I'm not proud that I noticed she was there.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

I guess after making the epic journey down to Casey yesterday I should put in my 2 cents worth.

The obvious difference in the match to me was skill. Hawks players had the confidence that their team mate would be able to hit a target, be there for support, make good position or a good contest. I saw this a little in the Geelong match, but the Melbourne players would handall too much, break under pressure and turnover the ball. Delivery by foot was also a little haphazard. It seems to be a confidence issue manifested in poor skills, probably a noticeable observation for most. Again, in the Geelong match, frequently there'd be generally one player going up for the contest and a player waiting to crumb, yesterday I saw too many contests of old where 2 Dees would go for the same mark. Lack of confidence, lack of communication, just bad habits I guess.

Kennedy-Harris I believe was a sub (along with Georgio and Viney), and only came on in the second half. His efforts where noticeable and certainly added a lot of energy to our performance when he was on. I'd be very surprised if he didn't play in the 1st round. It's hard to knock Viney's performance, he was definitely giving it everything, just needs a bit more composure with his disposal.

As has been mentioned by previous posters, I also noticed Watts getting into good positions on numerous occasions, but was largely ignored for his efforts. Had a few clangers too. I was under the impression that Strauss and Watts were some of our better kicks, but it didn't seem to stop them from turning over the ball (although, who didn't!)

Michie, Vince, Tyson and Cross seemed to do reasonably well. I'd hate to think how we'd be without that influx of midfielders.

Not feeling particularly positive about the whole experience, 8 hours round trip, delayed in traffic and got there late, partway through the second quarter when the score was already starting to blow out. But then again, it's never been easy being a Melbourne supporter has it?

Random observations:

It's hard not to feel some admiration for Roughy, not only was he kicking a bag and generally making life miserable for the Dees, but he also found time to replace divets in the field and fetch the ball for the umpires.

Delta Goodrem made an appearance at the game. And no, I'm not proud that I noticed she was there.

who is she dating now? dear, oh dear.

[Hulett Packard III 166]

Reading DemonDave and KC on the Casey thread it brought home the fact how the Hawks have a very small injury list (Lake, Schoenmakers and perhaps one or two others) whereas while we have an equally small official injury list we have half a dozen others who apparently aren't injured but are also not quite ready to play football or being rested according to the spin we're getting from the club. Most of our tall players seem to have disappeared into some sort of Southern Hemisphere Bermuda Triangle and who knows when we're ever going to see them play again?

The result in terms of yesterday's performance and without wanting to make excuses for injuries (but as RDB called them "explanations") was rather devastating in terms of what we saw out on the ground and on the scoreboard. I suspect that it didn't matter all that much to Paul Roos whether the loss was 50, 75 or 110 points because we seemed to be playing the game without a half forward line (and IMO, you need to win at CHF if you're going to do any good so if you have nothing there then you're cactus).

I'm sure that when we take St. Kilda on in much different circumstances and conditions we'll have a much better forward/following structure even if we still don't have Jamar, Gawn, Hogan, Dawes, Garland and Clark back. At some stage during the year, the fog will lift over that Bermuda Triangle and we might have a full side which will make the coach's job a lot easier.

In the meantime, despite yesterday's setback, our midfield is slowly building and that's important for the medium and long term of this team.

I take your point about the importance of the CHF position and I also take note of some of the criticism of Jack Watts around here as well as the coach's determination to make him a midfielder.

As long as we have most of our talls and KPF's missing from action, I think its imperative that Roos bites the bullet and shows some flexibility by playing Watts in a key forward position until we get the others back. A good start to the season is imperative and you're quite right about us getting nothing from out half forwards at Casey yesterday. Necessity is the mother in this case.

[Alcho Dee 269]

I watched Hawthorn play North Melbourne down in Launceston two week ends ago, Hawthorn made North look pretty average and ran out easy winners by 65 points. I missed the game yesterday but I can only imagine what it was like. 65 points is a lot different to 110 but North Melbourne were out of the game in the first quarter and never looked like getting back into it and it felt more like a 90 point flogging than 65. Hawthorn were a class above, much like I assume they were yesterday. Their structured play with efficient quick 30-40m kicks until finding a target inside 50 Bruest, Gunstan or Roughead. Their defence with Sam Mitchell, Hodge, Suckling etc is skilled and the ball rebounds out of defence with ease.

They play as a team and are fit, and as Roos says they are the reigning premiers and have experienced the ultimate success playing with each other, they play with so much confidence and these practice matches and nab challenge games are turned into training drills.

They made North Melbourne look very very average on a big ground in Tassie and my thoughts of North Melbourne were they looked like a team to finish 12th 13th or well out of the 8.

We have seen how the top dogs play their footy and the boys can either drop their heads and get beaten by St Kilda round 1, or do as North Melbourne have done and bounce back the following week.

I'm glad I didn't see the game but hopefully the boys are strong enough mentally to learn from how Hawthorn play and to show it agains St Kilda.

[CBDees 3,167]

Any reports on the Casey game?

[Rolling Stone 156]

I guess after making the epic journey down to Casey yesterday I should put in my 2 cents worth.

The obvious difference in the match to me was skill. Hawks players had the confidence that their team mate would be able to hit a target, be there for support, make good position or a good contest. I saw this a little in the Geelong match, but the Melbourne players would handall too much, break under pressure and turnover the ball. Delivery by foot was also a little haphazard. It seems to be a confidence issue manifested in poor skills, probably a noticeable observation for most. Again, in the Geelong match, frequently there'd be generally one player going up for the contest and a player waiting to crumb, yesterday I saw too many contests of old where 2 Dees would go for the same mark. Lack of confidence, lack of communication, just bad habits I guess.

Kennedy-Harris I believe was a sub (along with Georgio and Viney), and only came on in the second half. His efforts where noticeable and certainly added a lot of energy to our performance when he was on. I'd be very surprised if he didn't play in the 1st round. It's hard to knock Viney's performance, he was definitely giving it everything, just needs a bit more composure with his disposal.

As has been mentioned by previous posters, I also noticed Watts getting into good positions on numerous occasions, but was largely ignored for his efforts. Had a few clangers too. I was under the impression that Strauss and Watts were some of our better kicks, but it didn't seem to stop them from turning over the ball (although, who didn't!)

Michie, Vince, Tyson and Cross seemed to do reasonably well. I'd hate to think how we'd be without that influx of midfielders.

Not feeling particularly positive about the whole experience, 8 hours round trip, delayed in traffic and got there late, partway through the second quarter when the score was already starting to blow out. But then again, it's never been easy being a Melbourne supporter has it?

Random observations:

It's hard not to feel some admiration for Roughy, not only was he kicking a bag and generally making life miserable for the Dees, but he also found time to replace divets in the field and fetch the ball for the umpires.

Delta Goodrem made an appearance at the game. And no, I'm not proud that I noticed she was there.

Agree that Roughead was the dominant player but why on earth was he given so much latitude all day? Surely the coach is not going to allow the opposition's most dangerous forward get a free run at the footy for so long when the real thing starts?

[Whispering_Jack 29,801]

Any reports on the Casey game?

try here

[Jack Jack 415]

Agree that Roughead was the dominant player but why on earth was he given so much latitude all day? Surely the coach is not going to allow the opposition's most dangerous forward get a free run at the footy for so long when the real thing starts?

He's a player at the peak of his game, not only was he the dominant forward but he was in a few centre bounces, got a few clearances, just pushed Dees players away when they where attempting to tackle him. He must be one of the most in form, versatile players around, let alone for a tall dominant forward. He's an absolute luxury for the Hawks to have. Was he given latitude or was he just too good for our (slightly) undermanned defence?

[jnrmac 20,055]

If Nathan Jones's cut under the eye resulted from Jordan Lewis bump then you'd think Lewis'd be up for a holiday.

you'd be kidding wouldn't you?

Melbourne players are fair game as punching bags in the pre-season....

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

He's a player at the peak of his game, not only was he the dominant forward but he was in a few centre bounces, got a few clearances, just pushed Dees players away when they where attempting to tackle him. He must be one of the most in form, versatile players around, let alone for a tall dominant forward. He's an absolute luxury for the Hawks to have. Was he given latitude or was he just too good for our (slightly) undermanned defence?

every big name player at every club just does as they please when they come up against Melbourne, and most of the time it seems like we don't even try or even have a plan to stop them. It's as if they just turn up to the game and see what happens.. who's playing on this G.Ablett bloke? Effing amateurs

[Wiseblood 24,637]

every big name player at every club just does as they please when they come up against Melbourne, and most of the time it seems like we don't even try or even have a plan to stop them. It's as if they just turn up to the game and see what happens.. who's playing on this G.Ablett bloke? Effing amateurs

McKenzie did last year, and he beat him.

One pre-season loss has you wetting your pants and dribbling in thread after thread.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

McKenzie did last year, and he beat him.

One pre-season loss has you wetting your pants and dribbling in thread after thread.

oh beat him did he, who won the match? A team that has been in existence for 3 years, that's who

18 goals to 2 after qtr time. If you are prepared to accept that under any conditions you are sound asleep

[Wiseblood 24,637]

oh beat him did he, who won the match? A team that has been in existence for 3 years, that's who

18 goals to 2 after qtr time. If you are prepared to accept that under any conditions you are sound asleep

No need to change your 'point' now. You made the point of 'who do we play on Ablett' as if we are amateurs, and I told you what we did, and how McKenzie had him covered. Nice deflection though.

And no, no one accepts that, but it's a clear reflection that we still have a long way to go. Our two opening games also showed the ability that this list DOES have when it all comes together.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

No need to change your 'point' now. You made the point of 'who do we play on Ablett' as if we are amateurs, and I told you what we did, and how McKenzie had him covered. Nice deflection though.

And no, no one accepts that, but it's a clear reflection that we still have a long way to go. Our two opening games also showed the ability that this list DOES have when it all comes together.

yeah you're right McKenzie is a quality tagger who shuts down the big name midfielder week in, week out. No other gun players turn up to play Melbourne and just do as they please. We have it all sorted out

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I've stated ad nauseum that I don't see Watts as a quality mid and nothing thus far has changed my mind. He and Toumpas are a mile off against quality sides. Their lack of physicality is pronounced.

It's still early days and many Demonlanders get very upset by these sorts of opinions, but not taking Wines could end up one of this clubs biggest blunders. It is too early, but the signs are most definitely there.

Agreed.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I've stated ad nauseum that I don't see Watts as a quality mid and nothing thus far has changed my mind. He and Toumpas are a mile off against quality sides. Their lack of physicality is pronounced.

It's still early days and many Demonlanders get very upset by these sorts of opinions, but not taking Wines could end up one of this clubs biggest blunders. It is too early, but the signs are most definitely there.

always goes back to the same question though - if Watts was with West Coast and Toumpas with Port, how would they be going? Do you really think Wines would be looking as good if he was wearing red and blue? People need to step back and look at the big picture, how is it possible that we draft dud after dud, surely we would have got one good one by accident by now! It's the club, nothing works here and if you got drafted to us you would cry

[Deecisive 1,709]

Hawthorn has a pretty full list, its going to be a long season and they will have their share of injuries and reports. A lot of teams have started the season well but not finished well enough. It will be interesting to see how they go as the year progresses.

The Dees have had a bit of a reality check, which is good, they know when they executed Roo's game plan we won or got close to finals sides, when we did not execute it well we got killed. People learn from mistakes more so than from doing the right thing. So I can see these guys will improve as time goes on and they bed down the game plan.

As for the debate on Toumpas and missing out on wines, why not go back further an bemoan the fact that we did not get Garry Ablett and then jnr.... Toumpas is a melbourne player and a damn good user of the ball, give him time and lets move on from debating past decisions.