Improvers and sliders

[Whispering_Jack 30,688]

Didn't hurt Robert Johnsons career.

Do you mean "Big Bob" Johnson, "Tassie Bob" Johnson or "Robert Leroy" Johnson, the bloke who sang and played blues guitar?

If you mean the third then I have to disagree. That Robert Johnson died at the age of 27. Probable cause of death - murder. On that basis, he's a slider. "Big Bob" is no longer with us, bless his heart while "Tassie Bob" just turned 76, so I have them all as sliders.

Historically, Melbourne has usually fared well with a Johnson in the team, so I think our recruiting people would do well to scour the country for a Johnson.

Anyway, that's my three sliders thanks to Biffen.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Improvers :-

Toumpas

Gawn

Evans

Sliders :-

Byrnes

Nicholson

Bail

[Rogue 585]

Do you mean "Big Bob" Johnson, "Tassie Bob" Johnson or "Robert Leroy" Johnson, the bloke who sang and played blues guitar?

If you mean the third then I have to disagree. That Robert Johnson died at the age of 27. Probable cause of death - murder. On that basis, he's a slider. "Big Bob" is no longer with us, bless his heart while "Tassie Bob" just turned 76, so I have them all as sliders.

Historically, Melbourne has usually fared well with a Johnson in the team, so I think our recruiting people would do well to scour the country for a Johnson.

Anyway, that's my three sliders thanks to Biffen.

The last two Johnsons haven't given us much.

[Alcho Dee 269]

What's with everyone suggesting M.Jones will be a slider.....Please don't forget that was his first year of AFL.....and he is one guy who can hold his head up and say he 'had a crack' he is a massive ball winner and with some help from others in the mid field I would think he will be an improver rather than a slider. The fact that he was one of our best mid fielders in his first season at the club says a lot about his character, get another pre season into him and he will only get better.

It's people like Bail who we had stuck with for years and have struggled to get 20+disposals ever who we should be onto.

IMPROVER:

M.Jones

D.Kent

J.Toumpas

Reasons.....all another full pre-season under the belt(hopefully) going into their second years Kent and Jones had great first years, Toumpas unfortunately didn't have a good year but he is quality and we all want him to be great.

SLIDERS:

S.Byrnes

M.Jamar

R.Bail

Byrnes didn't impress me last year at all and I would prefer to put games into other players, simple as that. He will not be apart of our plans over the next 3 years. This should be his last year.

Jamar has struggled of late and I think we need to play Gawn assuming fit. Spencer looks to be improving

Bail..we have stuck with him for so long and I can't see him in our midfield ...time to go.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Improvers.

Dom Barry - Will be an absolute gun, I'd of taken him top 20 the year he was picked, we got a steal.

Jack Watts - The most versatile footballer in the game, will arrive on the scene in 2014.

Max Gawn - Bulking up will see that he improves his strength and Gawn will show is the future.

Jeremy Howe - Kids with this much talent aren't just jack in the box forwards, will show his wares in the midfield.

Sliders.

Jamar - Just doesn't have enough desperation and is scared to kick the ball.

Bail - I just don't see a spot for him.

Pederson - Is just soft, will be down at Casey 3 quarters of the year.

[CBDees 3,167]

Improvers.

Dom Barry - Will be an absolute gun, I'd of taken him top 20 the year he was picked, we got a steal.

The MFC App describes Barry as 183cm and 70kg. Is this his current weight as it seems quite slight?

[Whispering_Jack 30,688]

I'll give my improver as Jimmy Toumpas. One doesn't really need extra incentives to improve but this bloke has them all. He bore the brunt of the senseless debate as to whether or not we should have taken Ollie Wines instead of him which was unfair because they're not similar players and Toumpas was always going to be at a disadvantage because his pre season was affected by the fact that he was coming off two hip operations. It was always going to be much more difficult when your team is copping a flogging on a weekly basis compared to being a finals aspirant.

So, with what appears to be greater support from the midfield, a much more settled club and a healthier start to his pre season, Jimmy has the opportunity to show us what made him a top five draft pick. Reports from pre season suggest that he's on his way to doing this.

My slider is a player who I believe will be under pressure to maintain his place in the team and that's Jordie McKenzie. You would take him in your side for reasons of guts, determination and attitude but unless he works on and improves his disposal by foot, he will struggle to hold his place. I'm wondering if those who have been to training this far have noticed whether there's been any emphasis on this aspect of his game.

[deeko 952]

Improvers;

1. Trengove. I think he will remind us why he was so highly rated this year and return to where he should be along the natural progression stages. Is tough and skilled and will remind us early how good he is. For those who think he is slow, I saw him last week in a busy cafe and we both did the bolt for the last available table dodging waitresses, patrons and tables requiring speed and agility. He got me by a couple seconds and I had the easier run. You magnificent b@stard Jack

2. The Toump. He is fit and he is hungry. I don't think he will ever be a big 30+ possession winner where those comparing him to Wines will complain as he will be. Fortunately though the Toump will be making forwards lick there lips when he runs at them with the pill in hand. Has so much polish that it's silly. Will have some really damaging games this year and will make opposition teams worry.

3. Blease & Tapscott. I put them together as they are both similar. Both have gotten worse the longer they have been on our list which I think says something. They both have favorable traits that we need however I think both lost the passion to play a bit. All they have to do is get about 14 touches a game to receive a 50% increase in return which as an investment I like. Whether they get a game however will be interesting. Along with Strauss, this must be close to there last go at it. (I didn't mentions Strauss at all as I don't rate him at all). I have good memories of a nearly 30 possie game for Blease against the Suns a couple years back where I thought, 'finally he has arrived' and love Tappys courage reminiscing of him in the back pocket taking a solid grab backing back then getting up and brushing it off. Both are clearly better players then where they finished last year.

Sliders:

1. Jordie Mc. I love Jordie so this is hard to say but he probably doesn't do enough to warrant a game. His tagging ability seems fine but he just never hurts oppositions on the offensive. Still I'll never be upset if he is named as at least you know he is fair dinkum when he is playing.

2. Bail. I have always like Ro but I think his scone will force him to call it quits.

3. Dunn. I just don't get what he brings to the side and why so many here rate him. People crap on about how he never loses a one on one marking duel which when you are the height of a key position player defending the oppositions 4th tall you would bloody well hope he doesn't lose one. I can't recall him taking a pack mark with the dukes out, can't recall him putting his body on the line, can't recall him doing anything of merit other than some good games against GWS or a helpless Tiges a few years back. He has been around long enough now to make one of many spots he could play his own, he hasn't.

[Slartibartfast 17,635]

My slider is a player who I believe will be under pressure to maintain his place in the team and that's Jordie McKenzie. You would take him in your side for reasons of guts, determination and attitude but unless he works on and improves his disposal by foot, he will struggle to hold his place. I'm wondering if those who have been to training this far have noticed whether there's been any emphasis on this aspect of his game.

Jordie will be under pressure I think but so will so many of the mids.

The AFL is littered with mids who's kicking has been questioned. Watson and Kennedy are two. McKenzie's role is as a tagger and he's very good at it. Griffen, Dangerfield and Ablett had very poor games by their standard against us last year when Jordie tagged them despite being in better teams. I also think McKenzie can play as a genuine inside mid using his hands more than his feet. From what I've heard all the mids will have various roles this year and I hope Jordie gets this one as I think that's where he's played some good footy.

I think Roos will love McKenzie. He'll love that he has a mature body compared to Viney, Toumpas and others and he'll love the fact he's quite a big mid being 186cm, 24 years old, absolutely team focused and can play a role very well.

Jordie will be under pressure and he may not hold his spot but if he doesn't that can only be very good news as he'll set a much higher benchmark than many give him credit for.

[dazzledavey36 55,366]

What's with everyone suggesting M.Jones will be a slider.....Please don't forget that was his first year of AFL.....and he is one guy who can hold his head up and say he 'had a crack' he is a massive ball winner and with some help from others in the mid field I would think he will be an improver rather than a slider. The fact that he was one of our best mid fielders in his first season at the club says a lot about his character, get another pre season into him and he will only get better.

It's people like Bail who we had stuck with for years and have struggled to get 20+disposals ever who we should be onto.

IMPROVER:

M.Jones

D.Kent

J.Toumpas

Reasons.....all another full pre-season under the belt(hopefully) going into their second years Kent and Jones had great first years, Toumpas unfortunately didn't have a good year but he is quality and we all want him to be great.

SLIDERS:

S.Byrnes

M.Jamar

R.Bail

Byrnes didn't impress me last year at all and I would prefer to put games into other players, simple as that. He will not be apart of our plans over the next 3 years. This should be his last year.

Jamar has struggled of late and I think we need to play Gawn assuming fit. Spencer looks to be improving

Bail..we have stuck with him for so long and I can't see him in our midfield ...time to go.

I agree in regards to Bail. Don't rate him as a footballer. turns it over way too much and doesn't find enough of the ball.

The club should have tapped him on the shoulder last year for his own health and safety.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

Here is a pop quiz for all the footy cognoscenti

What is Bail's kicking efficiency and average disposals on the wing/high half forward (the two roles he has played)

Edited January 7, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

Improvers

The Toump - Watched him at training a couple of times and the young fella looks ready to go He has great skills and has added some strength.

Hogan - Gonna be the star this club has needed for the last decade

Blease - I was at traning before chistmas and he was working very hard on his fitness. If he can this right he will be a very damaging forward/mid. Lots of up side in the young bloke.

Sliders

Bail

Pedersen

Byrnes

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

Jeremy Howe - Kids with this much talent aren't just jack in the box forwards, will show his wares in the midfield.

Interesting fact Number 309 and a half.............At the moment he averages less possessions a game than Roh Bail

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed by a lot of the choices Roos makes for his 22, if you think Jimmy Toumpas is going to play 22 games then think again, Roos is a great believer in a gradual build up with 'younger' players, I reckon he will play between 15 and 20

Edited January 7, 2014 by Satyriconhome

[rjay 25,097]

Jeremy Howe - Kids with this much talent aren't just jack in the box forwards, will show his wares in the midfield.

Interesting fact Number 309 and a half.............At the moment he averages less possessions a game that Roh Bail

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed by a lot of the choices Roos makes for his 22, if you think Jimmy Toumpas is going to play 22 games then think again, Roos is a great believer in a gradual build up with 'younger' players, I reckon he will play between 15 and 20

Not many players full stop play 22 games these days so if Jimmy gets 15-20 I reckon that would be a good return.

As for averages, Howe has spent a lot of time deep forward (not a position he should play) where it's harder to get a kick particularly with our mob.

I think a lot are being a bit harsh with Roh, but he does need to get more ball in the positions he plays. The previous game plan probably didn't help him as it seemed we didn't really focus on getting and sharing the footy and he was like most who just didn't get a lot of it. A clear injury free run at it would help but the head injuries issue must be a worry to him and the club.

[jacey 333]

What's with everyone suggesting M.Jones will be a slider.....Please don't forget that was his first year of AFL.....

It's people like Bail who we had stuck with for years and have struggled to get 20+disposals ever who we should be onto.

Byrnes didn't impress me last year at all and I would prefer to put games into other players,

Depends on what you definition of slider is.

A slider is someone who is in the 22 regularly who could be under pressure to lose his spot.

Bail, Byrnes, maybe Jordie Mac aren't reg 22 and you can't slide if you're not in the team.

MJones was best 22 last year and i think his spot could be up for grabs.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Jordie will be under pressure I think but so will so many of the mids.

The AFL is littered with mids who's kicking has been questioned. Watson and Kennedy are two. McKenzie's role is as a tagger and he's very good at it.

There's no place in the game for a tagger who is a complete liability with ball in hand. Even when he gets it he's so slow to make a decision and invariably it's the wrong one. He doesn't have creative hands, so his handball also isn't a weapon.

Watson and Kennedy improved their games out of sight. Have you seen how good they are in close and how creative their vision and handball is ? It's ludicrous to even compare McKenzie to these two.

Also, they kick goals. Watson has kicked 36 and Kennedy 43 goals in the last two years. McKenzie has kicked 10 in 69 games.

McKenzie is finished.

[skills32 229]

Do you mean "Big Bob" Johnson, "Tassie Bob" Johnson or "Robert Leroy" Johnson, the bloke who sang and played blues guitar?

If you mean the third then I have to disagree. That Robert Johnson died at the age of 27. Probable cause of death - murder. On that basis, he's a slider. "Big Bob" is no longer with us, bless his heart while "Tassie Bob" just turned 76, so I have them all as sliders.

Historically, Melbourne has usually fared well with a Johnson in the team, so I think our recruiting people would do well to scour the country for a Johnson.

Anyway, that's my three sliders thanks to Biffen.

I think he means the Robert Johnson who previously played for hawthorn.

[mjt 640]

I think he means the Robert Johnson who previously played for hawthorn.

I thought he meant the singer Skills, Wouldn't no with Biffen he's very well read.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,408]

Jordie will be under pressure I think but so will so many of the mids.

The AFL is littered with mids who's kicking has been questioned. Watson and Kennedy are two. McKenzie's role is as a tagger and he's very good at it. Griffen, Dangerfield and Ablett had very poor games by their standard against us last year when Jordie tagged them despite being in better teams. I also think McKenzie can play as a genuine inside mid using his hands more than his feet. From what I've heard all the mids will have various roles this year and I hope Jordie gets this one as I think that's where he's played some good footy.

I think Roos will love McKenzie. He'll love that he has a mature body compared to Viney, Toumpas and others and he'll love the fact he's quite a big mid being 186cm, 24 years old, absolutely team focused and can play a role very well.

Jordie will be under pressure and he may not hold his spot but if he doesn't that can only be very good news as he'll set a much higher benchmark than many give him credit for.

In 2013 Jordie played 12 games. His tackling average was 4.2, (O'keefe 6.6, K Jack 6.4, J Kelly 7.6, Barlow 5.9, Priddis 6.1, T Liberatore 6.2) Not even close to good enough for someone who's primary role is a tagger. I can't see why he can't ave 2 tackles a qtr.

Frees against 1.7

Surprisingly his disposal efficiency is at 70.5%. His handballs double his kicks so that probably accounts for high efficiency. Having said that he had 32 clangers in 12 games.....kicking?

We know we can't fault his endeavour but let's be honest, if we delisted him last year who would of picked him up?

[rjay 25,097]

I thought he meant the singer Skills, Wouldn't no with Biffen he's very well read.

I'm sure he did...

[dpositive 1,699]

I'm sure he did...

It was the "crossroads" mention that made that a very clever pick up

Has sparked further comment so even better.

[John Dee 445]

Interesting. With very little to go on other than gut feel -

Improvers -

Toumpas, over the effects of his hip surgeries and with a season and a full pre-season under his belt.

Viney; already good, will just get better.

Howe, down last year but will rebound.

MacDonald, already good, will become elite

Sliders -

McKenzie. It gives me no pleasure to say this.

Bail; disposal is a serious issue.

Byrnes; not up to it.

M Jones, dunno why.

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

Improvers

Viney - the kid just has that desire to succeed and put in the work to get the best out of himself

Toumpas - puts a lot of pressure on himself but his second pre-season will be a bonus and he has the tools to become a very good player

Howe - will be played as a forward and if the big 3 play regularly he will get off the leash and be an absolute nightmare as a 4th forward to man up on

TMac - like Viney he has the desire to get the best out of himself and I expect Frawley to get back to his best form and the midfield to improve resulting in less pressure on our defensive half, which will help Tom

Sliders

I Hope none of our players slide and they are all champing at the bit to break into the 22 each week. If any players are to slide I hope the reasons are due to age catching up with them and/or our younger players maturing to a level where they must be played most weeks. The only sliders I want to see are

Regular beltings

Inability to run out quarters and allow opposition to run over us in time on

Inability to play a competitive brand of footy for 4 quarters

[beelzebub 23,383]

Its an interesting question really and not one you can readily and fairly answer.

If by Improver one reads , moving up from an established trajectory or level into another higher plain, then i'll leave aside for the moment the likes of the Viney's and Toump's etc as they have established a development curve.

A handful of players whom I suspect will leap frog over some and grab a rung above their current standing are :

Viv Michie. hasnt really been given a decent paddock or fitness to play in. Now he has both. I think he'll surprise many

JKH.. just ave a gut feeling he'll jump out of the gates and assume the tempo of AFL with some aplomb. He's that live wire play ( out of nothing ) maker we've lacked for a while now.

Alex Georgio. Might be one of the finds of the draft me thinks

Sliders.

Theres a truckload here really, but sliding is perhaps a bit of a misnomer.... being found out as inadequate now by comparison to their better team mates is more the thing.

Theres probably a dozen...and their all front and centre for the next cull. Some already mentioned in dispatches Id say.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,249]

Once again, I am going to push Spencer. I like his attitude, his work ethic and his continual improvement. Second for me is Fitzy. He has come from looking like a complete mug to showing skill, athleticism and some smarts.However, if all the big guys are fit, Fitzy will struggle to get a game unless he is reinvented as a backman. I believe this is possible. Finally, Tappy gets my nod. I like his courage and his mongrel but he has to stand up this year and play consistent footy.

No sliders for a reformed and optimistic soul like myself.