21 minutes ago, Elegt said:

the overwhelming majority of melbourne supporters were advocating drafting wines, for too long melbourne had been drafting small scrawny kids eg. watts toumpas morton instead of big competetive units eg. oliver petracca. Glad we're over those days now

Supporters yes, but there were definitely a few experts who thought Toumpas was the right choice. Including Matthew Lloyd who was doing a lot of work with the under 18's at the time.

He could kick and run to find the ball and Hawthorn's kick - mark style was what everyone was chasing at the time. It's a reminder not to be caught up with the hype of the times.

No idea how much the club ruined his body and mind. Some players you only get one chance at getting right, others can bounce back from disappointment and retool their body and spirit. Toump played a couple of decent games at Port but then faded out.

Certainly clubs have to be careful with 18 year olds and get their bodies right. There's no excuse to not do that. And to not over tax them or over expose them to AFL level. 

And the best way to avoid draft busts - don't have a lot of top picks!!! And draft well with all your picks. Keep adding talent in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds and you can miss the occasionall first rounder.

He was very one-paced, and used to wear Fluro boots which only served to highlight how slow his legs were moving

Bad recruiting decision dor Melbourne, probably worse for Port

I think he had groin issues when he arrived to us . Never got his pace back ! 

2 minutes ago, demonique said:

I think he had groin issues when he arrived to us . Never got his pace back ! 

groins or hips? seems he never fully recovered, had a strange gait afterwoods

The decision to draft him at the time was the right one - it's only in hindsight that it appears not to be the case. As an 18 y.o., he was doing everything you could ask and had the runs on the board.

He's one of those players that looks like a million dollars at a lower level, but for whatever reason, can't translate that to the big stage. Good luck to him, he's still not all that old, I wouldn't be writing him off yet. In any case, he has a decent SANFL career ahead of him, which isn't to be scoffed at.

17 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

He was very one-paced, and used to wear Fluro boots which only served to highlight how slow his legs were moving

Bad recruiting decision dor Melbourne, probably worse for Port

Port has been a good destination to offload our spuds

2 hours ago, Elegt said:

Once a spud, always a spud. Delisted from Port. Thanks Neeld for drafting him ahead of wines and macrae.

Unnecessary!

5 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

Unnecessary!

People on here did it to Watts, at least Watts gave something to our club. Toumpas offered 0

Club stuffed up too many times. Can't change that. Look forward.

3 minutes ago, Elegt said:

People on here did it to Watts, at least Watts gave something to our club. Toumpas offered 0

Ah, now get it!!

 

 

I wonder if Trenners is going around again 

1 hour ago, demonique said:

I think he had groin issues when he arrived to us . Never got his pace back ! 

Yeah not sure we had much of handle of injuries back then

33 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I wonder if Trenners is going around again 

Hope so for his sake.

Nobody would deserve it more.

2 hours ago, Elegt said:

the overwhelming majority of melbourne supporters were advocating drafting wines, for too long melbourne had been drafting small scrawny kids eg. watts toumpas morton instead of big competetive units eg. oliver petracca. Glad we're over those days now

I like the way you've developed a narrative unsupported by facts...unless you think Fritsch, Spargo and Hannan are "big competitive units" rather than "small scrawny kids".

29 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I like the way you've developed a narrative unsupported by facts...unless you think Fritsch, Spargo and Hannan are "big competitive units" rather than "small scrawny kids".

the three you've mentioned are competitors, watts toumpas and Morton were soft 

23 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I like the way you've developed a narrative unsupported by facts...unless you think Fritsch, Spargo and Hannan are "big competitive units" rather than "small scrawny kids".

I think it’s fair to say all of Spargo (on the ground), Fritsch and Hannan (in the air) show courage that belies their slight or small statures.

i think it’s clear Melbourne have valued courage as an attitude over flash in their selections once Roos and Taylor arrived. It’s not all about physical size.

Ironically one or two less “courageous” but skilled types like Isaac Smith or Brad Hill could be accommodated and be quite useful about now.

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2013 at 8:39 PM, picket fence said:

Toumpas?? Vs Wines??
as per one of my earlier threads.... Hijacked as per usual!

No Contest
Wines is easily much much better than Jimmy, who will be OK when ball is delivered to him on platter!!
A better mans Cale methinks

We have stuffed up yet again!
Wines was sensational last night!
Irresistable!

Until Jimmy learns a bit of... ah confidence...

You do know the rest!!

And if any are in Doubt just take a close look at last weeks game early in the second quarter!

Wines... well what a great pick he should have been!

Said I June 2013. 

Was critical of it then,

Now savage on it 5 years later

How could we have got it so horribly wrong. 

The worst recruiting decision EVER by MFC

4 hours ago, Elegt said:

neeld overruled viney who was plannning to draft wines

Source?

Toump never asked to come to us or be picked at number 4.

He was pretty emblematic of what was wrong with us at the time.

We had been criticized for picking a bunch of callow, frail 18 year olds in the draft who were speculative. Despite blokes like Watts, Gysberts and Morton not coming on, we chose yet another one. Not only that, we had him in the senior team round one of his debut year. I had never heard anything about him having a great pre season or putting in a blinder during the scratch matches. The Cameron Schwab mindlock was still on the place which stated "Get games into the high draft picks if they are ready or not."

We should never have picked him because we clearly needed more senior grunt (which senior player would have wanted to come to us would have been up for serious debate) and he was probably never going to be a world beater at best but our environment wasn't the best either.

Edited August 28, 20186 yr by Colin B. Flaubert

Toumpas.  Morton,  Gysberts and others that we drafted all showed plenty of courage at junior level.  If they lacked courage it would have been noted at the time.  And it wasn't noted.  

Development aside,  Jimmy's biggest issue was that he could never create time & space for himself - and he wasn't a quick player either.  And for his size,  that's a recipe for disaster (especially for an outside midfielder)  At junior level,  you'll get away with a lot,  at AFL level,  you won't.

Jimmy is just another star junior who didn't cut it at AFL level ... and he joins the ranks of hundreds of others over a 30+ year time frame - that's including all the clubs,  not just ours.

I wish him all the best.

I admire the tenacity of anyone who is still maintaining the rage over Toumpas. That era of lurching from one disaster to the next just feels like a dim memory that is on the brink of flaming out to me.

As for Jimmy, I feel sad for him. He was a big hearted kid who had a passion for footy. After seeing Scully look like he’d been sentenced to the electric chair on draft night, Toumpas’ beaming grin was infectious. I hope life after footy is less confidence battering than his career was.

toumpas' year as a premiership player in 2011 with woodville-west torrents in the sanfl as a 16 year old in his fifth game at senior level was sensationally exciting

toumpas in 2011:

he was lean, quick, and a really neat kick who was capable of being a 75 metre player - he'd run 25 with a couple of bounces and roost it 50

his year as a south australian skipper in 2012 was absolutely sensational; he was being talked about as a likely top two pick and compared to nathan buckley

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then he had a double hip operation between the end of the championships and the draft period and he was never the same again - he lacked power in his legs both from a running and a kicking perspective

he has never had any trouble getting a heap of the pill at both sanfl and vfl level...unfortunately, he's proved to be far from afl-level...compare above at 16 to his farewell from port video:

his body shape has never developed and he now looks undersized when compared to his contemporaries

unfortunately he would appear to be another in a long line of players who are good enough for a lower level but not the top echelon

It really is incredible how wrong everyone got this. He wasn’t a speculative pick, and at some stages in Tac Cup rated the 2nd best player in the draft. 

16 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

toumpas' year as a premiership player in 2011 with woodville-west torrents in the sanfl as a 16 year old in his fifth game at senior level was sensationally exciting

toumpas in 2011:

he was lean, quick, and a really neat kick who was capable of being a 75 metre player - he'd run 25 with a couple of bounces and roost it 50

his year as a south australian skipper in 2012 was absolutely sensational; he was being talked about as a likely top two pick and compared to nathan buckley

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then he had a double hip operation between the end of the championships and the draft period and he was never the same again - he lacked power in his legs both from a running and a kicking perspective

he has never had any trouble getting a heap of the pill at both sanfl and vfl level...unfortunately, he's proved to be far from afl-level...compare above at 16 to his farewell from port video:

his body shape has never developed and he now looks undersized when compared to his contemporaries

unfortunately he would appear to be another in a long line of players who are good enough for a lower level but not the top echelon

Good perspective and a great post.

Tough gig recruiting