Just when you thought we may have been implementing cultural change

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Aside from all the previous posts all I want is a competitive side, for the full game, not just a quarter, or a half, or even three quarters.

Neeld has, rightfully, culled some of the players who were not going to take us anywhere but unfortunately he's replaced them with players that aren't even as good as those they've replaced. We could have picked up some good kids in the draft, instead, whilst I appreciate he wanted some older heads that would provide leadership, we've got neither.

Any Coach that believes he's always right and isn't prepared to accept that he may have got it wrong is domed to fail; Neeld has to let the players enjoy the game try to win but do it with a bit of flair and not play to some rigid script.

Edited April 16, 2013 by RobbieF

[Return to Glory 8,395]

Aside from all the previous posts all I want is a competitive side, for the full game, not just a quarter, or a half, or even three quarters.

Neeld has, rightfully, culled some of the players who were not going to take us anywhere but unfortunately he's replaced them with players that aren't even as good as those they've replaced. We could have picked up some good kids in the draft, instead, whilst I appreciate he wanted some older heads that would provide leadership, we've got neither.

Now, to stuff up like that takes some talent.

[Travis Boots 157]

I fear that the worst is yet to come.....

[Dr. Gonzo 23,881]

Aside from all the previous posts all I want is a competitive side, for the full game, not just a quarter, or a half, or even three quarters.

Exactly.

Any Coach that believes he's always right and isn't prepared to accept that he may have got it wrong is domed to fail; Neeld has to let the players enjoy the game try to win but do it with a bit of flair and not play to some rigid script.

There's room for both. Look at Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood - rigid structures and non-negotiables with players allowed to play with flair within the team fundamentals.

[dees189227 12,290]

Remember this is the club that under Dean Bailey cancelled there own time trial session. No wonder when Mission walked in he said the players were way behind.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

We could have picked up some good kids in the draft, instead

What are you talking about, the only 'good kid' we gave up was whoever we would have got at pick 20, instead we took Dawes, who has not played yet. Would you prefer another Addam Maric or what? On top of that we got THREE absolute top shelf kids compared to most clubs' ONE or NONE

[rjay 24,677]

What are you talking about, the only 'good kid' we gave up was whoever we would have got at pick 20, instead we took Dawes, who has not played yet. Would you prefer another Addam Maric or what? On top of that we got THREE absolute top shelf kids compared to most clubs' ONE or NONE

The Dawes one I'm still not sure of 'Curry', Collingwood took Broomhead with that pick but if the didn't have the 3 in a row it would be interesting which 2 of him Grundy and Kennedy they would have taken. But you are right the late picks would have been speculative anyway.

The only argument for the lower picks is that we could have used one to upgrade Magner or picked up a player like Hannath maybe.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

What are you talking about, the only 'good kid' we gave up was whoever we would have got at pick 20, instead we took Dawes, who has not played yet. Would you prefer another Addam Maric or what? On top of that we got THREE absolute top shelf kids compared to most clubs' ONE or NONE

So you're happy that Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan and Pederson are taking up taking up 4 spots on the list; I guess some are easily satisfied. Happy that Magner can't be promoted because we have those hacks on the list?

I'd rather have Petterd than Byrnes, Martin than Pederson and anyone rather than the other two. That's not to say I would be happy with them but certainly they'd be an improvement.

Oh! and I'd even prefer Maric to Rodan.

[bing181 9,113]

So you're happy that Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan and Pederson are taking up taking up 4 spots on the list; I guess some are easily satisfied.

Come on Robbie, you can do better than that (or you are better than that ...). People just see things differently.

I don't have a problem at all with the 4 you mentioned, and for whom - as has been pointed out - we basically gave up no draft picks of any real worth. We turned over 14 players ... that's Fourteen. Kids? We got kids coming out our ears - we took more "kids" this year than we ever have, including even a 17 year old (plus a 17 year old from NZ). It's not as if we had the regulation turnover of a half a dozen players - in which case, yes, taking 4 senior players who may not exactly dominate could be questionable. But they're bonus players on top of about 10 other pickups, stopgaps, some guys to add a bit of experience around the place, if not on the field. If it bothers you, forget that they're there ... whoever we took at pick 88 would NOT have been doing even what Rodan is. Upgrade Magner? Maybe, but in spite of his grunt, he was shown to be a bit one-dimensional and with questionable disposal last year. In any case, he'll get his chance, but let's not pretend that any of our problems will have been solved if we'd upgraded Magner and not taken Rodan.

Pedersen? Had a good first year at North, and seems to be able to play really well in the VFL (B&F last year, really good game for Casey 2 weeks back). Not yet doing it at senior level, and maybe he never will, but definitely worth a punt. Byrnes? I'd wait until we have a few games with more than 20 or 30 I50's before we write him off. In any case, leadership group, good club man ... a handy pick up off the field. Rodan, adds a bit of spark off-field, a good mentor for the younger guys it seems, and for a season or two, not a problem - it's not as if we have a heap of 30 year olds. Gillies. Depth KP defender - which we don't have. Give him a season, then let's see, once again, if it doesn't work out, no real cost to us. In any case, re the defenders, hard to get a feel for where they are when they're under the cosh the whole game because the opposition mids are running riot.

Edited April 16, 2013 by bing181

[Nasher 33,607]

This thread, like so many others, has degenerated into personal bickering and points scoring.

Mods???

On the contrary, I reckon it's been a decent discussion. I haven't seen much personal bickering at all?

[rpfc 28,071]

Gysberts, Pick 52, Pick 63, Pick 68, and Pick 88.

That is what Pedersen, Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan, Jones, and Terlich cost.

They are hardly the reason why we are at where we are at.

[Weedster 174]

said some storm players saw half a dozen dees laughing and carrying on in the spa when they should have been having ice baths, dermie reckons they need a jolt to change their ways

An isolated obbservation with no basis in fact - does Dermie know what had gone before ? Had they already uundergone their recovery ? A total beat up, but we will continue to attract these cheap shots until we show something on the field.

My fear is that we are so far off the pace that this is unlikely to turn around in the short term.

This week is a huge opportunity to arrest the slide.

Let them play !

[Weedster 174]

So you're happy that Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan and Pederson are taking up taking up 4 spots on the list; I guess some are easily satisfied. Happy that Magner can't be promoted because we have those hacks on the list?

I'd rather have Petterd than Byrnes, Martin than Pederson and anyone rather than the other two. That's not to say I would be happy with them but certainly they'd be an improvement.

Oh! and I'd even prefer Maric to Rodan.

Agree. Simply put,these trades were, shall we say, poor. By any reasonable measure the sum of Maloney, Rivers (neither of whom we tried to keep),Martin & Gysberts (not to mention Pettard) are far better than Rodan, Gillies, Byrnes & Pederson (spare me !), by a street. And yes, there should have been room for Magner !

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Gysberts, Pick 52, Pick 63, Pick 68, and Pick 88.

That is what Pedersen, Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan, Jones, and Terlich cost.

They are hardly the reason why we are at where we are at.

Jack Hanath may prove to be a costly miss. Rather Magner running around in the ones than Rodan running around at Casey. Rather perservere with Petterd for another year than pay the superannuation for Byrnes. Rather have one short on the list than have Gillies on it. Martin had his best year for us when he played first ruck, the only position he really seemed to be able to pay, prefer him to Pederson and Jamar at the moment.

Even the guys on MMM said the after the game the 4 of them were at best, depth back up, and couldn't believe they were all in the first game.

It's an appaling lack of judgement.

Edited April 16, 2013 by RobbieF

[DemonWA 3,889]

So you're happy that Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan and Pederson are taking up taking up 4 spots on the list; I guess some are easily satisfied. Happy that Magner can't be promoted because we have those hacks on the list?

I'd rather have Petterd than Byrnes, Martin than Pederson and anyone rather than the other two. That's not to say I would be happy with them but certainly they'd be an improvement.

Oh! and I'd even prefer Maric to Rodan.

I'll start off by saying that Martin is a disgrace of a footballer, destined to have a similar career to Jamar, one good season out of many! – soft as butter, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.

As for Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan and Pederson i'd seperate those guys into two groups;

Rodan, Byrnes, – I can see why we took these guys on. Remember we didn’t pay big money for them or give them particularly long contracts. The list is full of kids and they need to have some experienced guys around the group. IMO a lot of Melbourne’s demise can be traced back to when Bailey made room for the 2009 draft and got rid of Wheatley, Wheelan, Robbo and the rest of them. Brock left too. One year later Jr McDonald & Cam Bruce were gone. We brought in young players with talent, but these young guys never had senior leaders to learn form and never were made to work hard enough for their first game. I think the press like to bag these two selections, but playing games is a bonus….its more about the mentoring and wiser heads they provide around the change room.

Gillies, Pederson – Im not sold on any of these guys, although neither have played much AFL footy and it would be hard to look good playing for Melbourne at the moment. Time will tell whether they were good selections or not.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I think that people like Macca (and myself) don't expect to see us stone cold last two seasons in. There is one thing worse than being despised,and that is being pitied. Melbourne is being pitied, nobody is afraid of us anymore. We're a toothless tiger, a demon with fire or a trident.

Yep being pitied sucks.

I honestly avoid saying who I support sometimes at work, not that I dont love the dees - just can't stand some of the crap people from other clubs have to say.

I had a Carlton supporter say when he was leaving "Tanks for everything", and I replied "No worries, hope Kreuzer goes well for you!"... Carlton's 0-3, came 10th last year, and everyone knows they tanked in 2007... wtf mate

Or worse, I get pitied

Edited April 17, 2013 by PJ_12345

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'll start off by saying that Martin is a disgrace of a footballer, destined to have a similar career to Jamar, one good season out of many! – soft as butter, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.

As for Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan and Pederson i'd seperate those guys into two groups;

Rodan, Byrnes, – I can see why we took these guys on. Remember we didn’t pay big money for them or give them particularly long contracts. The list is full of kids and they need to have some experienced guys around the group. IMO a lot of Melbourne’s demise can be traced back to when Bailey made room for the 2009 draft and got rid of Wheatley, Wheelan, Robbo and the rest of them. Brock left too. One year later Jr McDonald & Cam Bruce were gone. We brought in young players with talent, but these young guys never had senior leaders to learn form and never were made to work hard enough for their first game. I think the press like to bag these two selections, but playing games is a bonus….its more about the mentoring and wiser heads they provide around the change room.

Gillies, Pederson – Im not sold on any of these guys, although neither have played much AFL footy and it would be hard to look good playing for Melbourne at the moment. Time will tell whether they were good selections or not.

Giving games to Rodan and Byrne when it's not warranted, won't teach the kids at the club a thing. We haven't looked one iota better since they've arrived so I'm stumped, what do they offer and what are they supposed to offer?

There are clubs that are smart and they can see potential in players that are unable to get a game at another club because they are maybe, 4th in line behind some exceptional players, but these guys weren't, they were delisted because they were deemed to be not good enough anymore.

We can argue about this till the cows come home but at the end of the day they are simply not good enough anymore, they may have been once but not any more.

[jazza 1,323]

footy clubs are made up of people that have heart and never say die attitude.

stick and stay until our grand day.

real people handle the knocks.

thats what makes a strong club

pay no attention to stone throwers

[rjay 24,677]

Giving games to Rodan and Byrne when it's not warranted, won't teach the kids at the club a thing. We haven't looked one iota better since they've arrived so I'm stumped, what do they offer and what are they supposed to offer?

There are clubs that are smart and they can see potential in players that are unable to get a game at another club because they are maybe, 4th in line behind some exceptional players, but these guys weren't, they were delisted because they were deemed to be not good enough anymore.

We can argue about this till the cows come home but at the end of the day they are simply not good enough anymore, they may have been once but not any more.

Agree 'Robbie',and I don't think anyone can justify them because they were low draft picks. No draft pick should be just thrown away.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,881]

I'll start off by saying that Martin is a disgrace of a footballer, destined to have a similar career to Jamar, one good season out of many! – soft as butter, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.

As for Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan and Pederson i'd seperate those guys into two groups;

Rodan, Byrnes, – I can see why we took these guys on. Remember we didn’t pay big money for them or give them particularly long contracts. The list is full of kids and they need to have some experienced guys around the group. IMO a lot of Melbourne’s demise can be traced back to when Bailey made room for the 2009 draft and got rid of Wheatley, Wheelan, Robbo and the rest of them. Brock left too. One year later Jr McDonald & Cam Bruce were gone. We brought in young players with talent, but these young guys never had senior leaders to learn form and never were made to work hard enough for their first game. I think the press like to bag these two selections, but playing games is a bonus….its more about the mentoring and wiser heads they provide around the change room.

Gillies, Pederson – Im not sold on any of these guys, although neither have played much AFL footy and it would be hard to look good playing for Melbourne at the moment. Time will tell whether they were good selections or not.

I tend to agree and not just for the reasons you've outlined. Remember another reason we went and got Byrnes/Rodan is that we've been screaming out for a crumbing forward for a while now so it is reasonable to think one of them could find a spot in the team especially considering Byrnes form in the latter part of the last VFL season.

I was happy to let Martin go but only because we made the monumental stuff up of retaining Jamar for 3 years. One of them had to go so it was Martin by default but although he has plenty of faults he would be a hundred times better than Jamar will be over the next 3 years.

[pitmaster 3,474]

No, we need change from the top down.

I've made a number of references as to why and how in posts #49, #69, #71 and #73 in this thread.

.

Well it must be true then

[MH. 88]

Snip

A more delusional glad handler I'm yet to read.

Imagine if you barracked for Geelong ? You wouldn't be able to stand upright in public for one minute of the day.

The fact that you get annoyed with supporters that are tired of making excuses for this rabble - the laughing stock of the AFL, merely highlights your emotional denial.

[MH. 88]

Aside from all the previous posts all I want is a competitive side, for the full game, not just a quarter, or a half, or even three quarters.

That's the problem. We've been so beaten down (understandably) that we've lost sight of the fact that the only thing that matters in footy is winning.

[Satyriconhome 10,390]

That's the problem. We've been so beaten down (understandably) that we've lost sight of the fact that the only thing that matters in footy is winning.

MH my old thing, you seem to be one of the few beaten down, I'm not, sorry must be in denial.

A more delusional glad handler I'm yet to read.

Imagine if you barracked for Geelong ? You wouldn't be able to stand upright in public for one minute of the day.

The fact that you get annoyed with supporters that are tired of making excuses for this rabble - the laughing stock of the AFL, merely highlights your emotional denial.

Don't quite understand this one, I don't get annoyed, just don't understand if the footy makes people so miserable why they put themselves through it

Laughing stock, that is my point, can't you handle a bit of stick from people, bit sad, I'm only tiny but people give me wide berth on the footy coz they know I fight back, I take [censored] from nobody, hopefully it the plan we are putting in place works (like everybody hopes it will) neither will the team going forward

Winning is everything.........sigh......vicarious triumphalism....

,

[MH. 88]

MH my old thing, you seem to be one of the few beaten down, I'm not, sorry must be in denial.

Don't quite understand this one, I don't get annoyed, just don't understand if the footy makes people so miserable why they put themselves through it

Laughing stock, that is my point, can't you handle a bit of stick from people, bit sad, I'm only tiny but people give me wide berth on the footy coz they know I fight back, I take [censored] from nobody, hopefully it the plan we are putting in place works (like everybody hopes it will) neither will the team going forward

Winning is everything.........sigh......vicarious triumphalism....

,

I lived through the 70's, so no need to be concerned for me. And no-one gives me "stick". The only "thing" i get is sympathy.

I am concerned however that many Melbourne supporters have already decided not to attend. You actively advocate supporters who are not happy to take such a stance, which is pathetic, and hardly helpful to the club in its current plight.

Btw, I answered your inane question in the Rocket Eade thread, in case you're interested. You know, the one where you equate Malthouse and Carlton's predicament to Neeld's at Melbourne. It sums up the quality of your contributions and the sharpness of your thinking.