Just when you thought we may have been implementing cultural change

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I think Dermott and the Storm boys point is they shouldn't have been in the spa fullstop.

Yep, thats why I said "being in the baths". He did bat on a bit about the laughing part:

"If Cam Smith had have been their captain he would have grabbed them by the beards, dragged them out and said "where's the fun? Where's the laughter?""

For me you're right, its not the laughter part, is the baths. But someone asked what was said because they couldn't listen to it so I did a rough transcript.

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

I don't give a rats if someone disagrees with me - it happens more often than not. I dislike your posts, you rarely provide anything constructive, only the constant dribble when you don't like someone complaining about certain players. You call for those posters to stop supporting the club, yet you get all teary when some bite back.

Sure, the Melbourne Football Club could do without some of it's so-called supporters (present company excluded), just like this site could do without you.

"don't give a rats if someone disagrees with me - it happens more often than not"....that statement should tell you something by itself, don't read my posts then quite simple, I don't read WYL and Tonatopia for the same reason.

Dribble, I find that rather an unfortunate choice of words, I try to be erudite in all my posts

What you would like me to put that is constructive....here we go....."I believe in the long term strategy that has been impletemented so I personally believe that there should be no changes to the Club at present, and if any supporter is not happy with it, they should stop supporting until such time they are ready to 100% support the Club and the direction it is heading in, otherwise they are only lying to themselves"

Teary, I only tear up with laughter at some of the posts on this board

You can complain all you like about certain players, if I don't agree I will say so, sorry if you don't like it, as above don't read it

This thread started on the subject ot the Culture of the players, personally I would like us to discuss the culture of certain parts of the supporter base, but that is a whole new subject and thread

[rpfc 27,534]

I know this is a side argument but in defence of KPIs:

1. I like to use them to see where good footy teams need to do better in.

2. Of course they simply state the bleeding obvious when you are getting flogged, there is little insight required when you do everything poorly.

I haven't done my KPI thread for this reason. All numbers will be down, there is no insight into how to get better: you need to do everything better.

If I could localise the first half from the second half then some insight could be gleaned from those numbers. But such was the domination that it will most likely lead to a "Everything Went Wrong" prognosis.

So, in summary, KPIs useful unless your team is useless.

[The Chazz 4,077]

You continue to miscontrue my words to try and win an argument. I'm not going to debate you if you twist my words. You keep mentioning finals and names whilst I'm holding everyone and everything to account.

The strategy I was alluding to involves everyone at the club.

It's not worth it hey Macca? I love a disagreement, but when the opponent throws incorrect quotes at you to try and bolster their defence, that's when you see someone's true colours.

Then when you challenge them, they throw the "ease up on the agression because it's childish" chestnut. It's laughable, because lying in your argument is far more immature than standing up for what's right.

[Strafford 182]

You're absolutely right in that we keep on making the same mistakes and thats why we have to keep on changing.

That's why it annoys me when I see people calling top down axing of board, staff and coach.

We have done this multiple times over the past 6 seasons but nothing has changed, we are still crap.

If axing hasn't gotten us anywhere in the past then lets for once lets stick out a new coaches strategy and see how that goes instead.

I think you are missing my point, the changing isn't the problem it is how we have gone about it. We are probably stuck with Neeld, for various reasons both financial and not to be seen as fickle, but not from any great confidence that he is the man. He may turn it around, miracles do happen.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

You continue to miscontrue my words to try and win an argument. I'm not going to debate you if you twist my words. You keep mentioning finals and names whilst I'm holding everyone and everything to account.

The strategy I was alluding to involves everyone at the club.

I stuck to the facts but somehow that's still misconstruing your argument?

The strategy your alluding to involves everyone at the club, not debating that, never have. Just saying that this same strategy has been used over the past 6 years and hasnt gotten us anywhere - by your omission we are still crap.

What KPI's are you baising us being crap on. Because if you mention games, percentages, and losses (which is what you have said) then how is it out of bounds for me to mention finals?

Also how is it out of bounds for me to mention finals when ive drawn a logical conclusion that what have we failed to do over the past 6 seasons, and what year did you conveniently exclude (2007) when we made finals... oh wait finals

So, again, without avoiding my point for the second time:

Maybe its worth a go at giving someone a chance at a long-term strategy, rather than judging them on short-term results and axing them which is what we have done for the past 6 years

[jazza 1,323]

lets stick together and look forward to the next fortnight, dont bag each other ,

LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING 2/3

[The Chazz 4,077]

"don't give a rats if someone disagrees with me - it happens more often than not"....that statement should tell you something by itself, don't read my posts then quite simple, I don't read WYL and Tonatopia for the same reason.

Dribble, I find that rather an unfortunate choice of words, I try to be erudite in all my posts

What you would like me to put that is constructive....here we go....."I believe in the long term strategy that has been impletemented so I personally believe that there should be no changes to the Club at present, and if any supporter is not happy with it, they should stop supporting until such time they are ready to 100% support the Club and the direction it is heading in, otherwise they are only lying to themselves"

Teary, I only tear up with laughter at some of the posts on this board

You can complain all you like about certain players, if I don't agree I will say so, sorry if you don't like it, as above don't read it

This thread started on the subject ot the Culture of the players, personally I would like us to discuss the culture of certain parts of the supporter base, but that is a whole new subject and thread

But if someone decided to start a new thread on "supporter culture", you would whinge that this topic has been done to death, and that supporters need to get over it or stop supporting the club.

If I had an Ignore List, you'd be the mayor. For the very few posters that I could add to it, I hold out hope tha tone day, they may just say something that is worthy of me reading. I'm sure that day will come...

[Bossdog 2,002]

I promised myself I would stay away from DL this week as it would be filled with doom and gloom and just depressing, but I couldn't resist.......This is the biggest load of crap I've heard for a long while

We all want our team to bond together....be mates....look after each other.......but now they get bagged by the AFL's party boy for having a spa and a laugh......

What are they supposed to do????.......Walk around depressed???.....Mope????.....Blame each other.....Don't tell me the dogs don't have a laugh at training.....Or GWS and the Gold Coast.....Geez....I would hate to go to work and not be able to function normally....and I have retired from a career where black humour is the norm and required to get through......

I know that the past three weeks have been awful but if we can't have a laugh all the players would have depression and things would just worse.....

[PJ_12345 1,098]

You are reading things that are simply not there.

Highlight where I said I support the hiring of Neeld. - ""I have long said that Neeld has the potential of being the next Melbourne premiership coach" (so you reckon he could be great, but dont support him - weird daichotomy you've got there)

Highlight where I said that I have written Neeld off. - "I just didn't know which way it would go, but hoped like hell that it was the former." & "I think you are putting blind faith in a number of people at the club" (past tense with hope, you don't think he was as good as you said he was and "blind faith")

Highlight where I said we should've picked Wines instead of Toumpas. - (I SAID "YOU ALL"; I WAS HAVING A GO AT ALL THE SHORT-TERM SUPPORTERS, like yourself, AND SAID "YOU ALL", I DIDNT SAY YOU SPECIFICALLY. Lol I dont know if I convey this any easier)

It's not worth it hey Macca? I love a disagreement, but when the opponent throws incorrect quotes at you to try and bolster their defence, that's when you see someone's true colours.

Then when you challenge them, they throw the "ease up on the agression because it's childish" chestnut. It's laughable, because lying in your argument is far more immature than standing up for what's right.

Yep, you see an opponent's true colours when they post exact quotes of what you have said but they are somehow "incorrect".

I havent lied in any of my arguments, simply posting your quotes.

Also I gave you the ease up on the aggression because I'd rather engage in a challenging debate where I might change my mind set on something, than "[censored] weak post PJ", "Absolute nothing post", "this site could do without you". Ironic because I thought you would share my same feelings considering you said to another poster "I dislike your posts, you rarely provide anything constructive, only the constant dribble".

So are these posts incorrect aswell?

Edited April 16, 2013 by PJ_12345

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

But if someone decided to start a new thread on "supporter culture", you would whinge that this topic has been done to death, and that supporters need to get over it or stop supporting the club.

If I had an Ignore List, you'd be the mayor. For the very few posters that I could add to it, I hold out hope tha tone day, they may just say something that is worthy of me reading. I'm sure that day will come...

Cultural cringe.....don;t like what posters write....but will keep reading it in the hope that one day they will......I wouldn't mind a thread on supporter culture, we haven't had one, so it has not been done to death......I am pretty cool with the mirror being held up to me....how about you......it's not an ignore list.....you just scan down the posts and not read the ones from posters who you do not enjoy/value/admire/respect/loathe* *delete whichever is not appropriate

I am just getting bored with the constant "oh no I think I have found another unfounded rumour that we can turn into 15 pages of what is wrong with the Club, repeating ad infnitum what was said in another 3000 threads previously"

As for supporting the Club, it is your choice, but if it so crap and makes you so miserable, why are you bothering?

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I think you are missing my point, the changing isn't the problem it is how we have gone about it. We are probably stuck with Neeld, for various reasons both financial and not to be seen as fickle, but not from any great confidence that he is the man. He may turn it around, miracles do happen.

Fair point. Alot of people wanted to get rid of CS and DB in the one go.

I didnt think it would be good to get rid of both our CEO and coach in the one week - would have made us too unstable.

RE the leadership group and captains your right, would have been a better way to approach it.

[Macca 16,173]

It's not worth it hey Macca? I love a disagreement, but when the opponent throws incorrect quotes at you to try and bolster their defence, that's when you see someone's true colours.

Then when you challenge them, they throw the "ease up on the agression because it's childish" chestnut. It's laughable, because lying in your argument is far more immature than standing up for what's right.

Careful billy, you may get accused of having an 'Identity crisis' if you dare to question anything the club has done in the last 6+ years. lol

[Strafford 182]

Fair point. Alot of people wanted to get rid of CS and DB in the one go.

I didnt think it would be good to get rid of both our CEO and coach in the one week - would have made us too unstable.

RE the leadership group and captains your right, would have been a better way to approach it.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the merits of getting rid of both. The problem I have is that I doubt I will ever know if Neeld is a good coach or not, just because due to circumstances beyond his control he didn't have a clear run at it. It is probably too late for him now. He might survive the year, but unless there is drastic improvement he will most likely be cut himself.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,522]

Then try saying something, give alternatives, explain what is wrong with the strategy, apart from the scoreboard, which everybody accepts is not right at the moment.......just carping does nothing except give other posters opportunity to take pot shots at you....who did you want....no let me guess.....Sheedy/Roos/Malthouse......they have all been covered ad infinitum

Yep the scoreboards not right and the club is a shambles - so how would YOU fix it?

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

Careful billy, you may get accused of having an 'Identity crisis' if you dare to question anything the club has done in the last 6+ years. lol

Careful billy, you may get accused of having an 'Identity crisis' if you dare to question anything the club has done in the last 6+ years. lol

You don't question you whinge and whine, without putting a feasible repeat feasible alternative, what you need support to reinforce your opinions, this is a thread that like I said above instead of lasting a page and being closed coz the rumour was rubbish, opened the door for the usual suspects to blame the usual suspects for everything.............yawn, been done to death.......although probably like a traffic accident I am drawn to partake until the posters bore me because they just keep repeating the same mantra.......

[DeeZee 6,776]

This thread is about guys in a bath having fun?

Lets hope they didn't lose the soap.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,522]

You're absolutely right in that we keep on making the same mistakes and thats why we have to keep on changing.

That's why it annoys me when I see people calling top down axing of board, staff and coach.

We have done this multiple times over the past 6 seasons but nothing has changed, we are still crap.

If axing hasn't gotten us anywhere in the past then lets for once lets stick out a new coaches strategy and see how that goes instead.

Actually we've done it once over the past 6 seasons - we sacked Bailey after the worst loss in the modern era. He had 4 seasons and the team was still a shambles.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Yep, you see an opponent's true colours when they post exact quotes of what you have said but they are somehow "incorrect".

I havent lied in any of my arguments, simply posting your quotes.

Also I gave you the ease up on the aggression because I'd rather engage in a challenging debate where I might change my mind set on something, than "[censored] weak post PJ", "Absolute nothing post", "this site could do without you". Ironic because I thought you would share my same feelings considering you said to another poster "I dislike your posts, you rarely provide anything constructive, only the constant dribble".

So are these posts incorrect aswell?

PJ, you are going around in circles. You have misunderstood my views, and you are not willing to understand what I was saying. I am not wasting any more of my time on explaining myself to you. Well done for derailing the thread.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,522]

What you would like me to put that is constructive....here we go....."I believe in the long term strategy that has been impletemented so I personally believe that there should be no changes to the Club at present, and if any supporter is not happy with it, they should stop supporting until such time they are ready to 100% support the Club and the direction it is heading in, otherwise they are only lying to themselves"

What is the long term strategy? If you believe in it you should be able to articulate it.

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

Yep the scoreboards not right and the club is a shambles - so how would YOU fix it?

Ah good afternoon, how are Fozzie and Kermit, here you go again, "club is a shambles"....why? go on or do you want me to do the list....the membership is still growing, may keep the finances going, we are getting a new Board Member who should help...so what else is there.....yes wasn't pretty on Saturday, but hey we get another go this weekend, believe in the strategy the Footy Dept is implementing so haven't go any reason to put forward alternatives

The recruiting we did still needs a bit of work, but Kent, Barry, Clisby, Hogan etc all took another step fwd at the weekend, and Matt Jones and Terlich look ok............now if we could just stop those bastard players from relaxing every now and again we will be fine

[Satyriconhome 9,986]

What is the long term strategy? If you believe in it you should be able to articulate it.

The strategy put into simple terms, not necessarily for your benefit, is to develop a group of players, who are both physically and mentally capable of performing at a consistently high standard throughout the season, leading to winning sufficient games to particpate in a finals campaign and ultimately the big one, the premiership cup.

At the same time, developing a culture throughout the whole Club to ensure that the above once attained becomes the norm rather than the exception and the success and excellence is sustained over a lengthy period

Think that about covers it......can't wait for your thoughts

[Macca 16,173]

You don't question you whinge and whine, without putting a feasible repeat feasible alternative, what you need support to reinforce your opinions, this is a thread that like I said above instead of lasting a page and being closed coz the rumour was rubbish, opened the door for the usual suspects to blame the usual suspects for everything.............yawn, been done to death.......although probably like a traffic accident I am drawn to partake until the posters bore me because they just keep repeating the same mantra.......

You're wrong. I talk about change and having strong leadership from the top. I have previously offered opinions on how the club could go about it. I'm not going to repeat myself. Read what I've previously posted.

That change at the top has already started. We just parted ways with our CEO. (although I don't agree with how it was handled)

[Dr. Gonzo 22,522]

"club is a shambles"....why? go on or do you want me to do the list....the membership is still growing, may keep the finances going, we are getting a new Board Member who should help...so what else is there.....yes wasn't pretty on Saturday, but hey we get another go this weekend, believe in the strategy the Footy Dept is implementing so haven't go any reason to put forward alternatives

The recruiting we did still needs a bit of work, but Kent, Barry, Clisby, Hogan etc all took another step fwd at the weekend, and Matt Jones and Terlich look ok............now if we could just stop those bastard players from relaxing every now and again we will be fine

If you don't know why the club is a shambles you might as well just give it away now. Hint - it has something to do with losing by 100 points every week.

* Membership growing? Hmm don't think so, it's shrinking this year and did last year as well.

* May keep the finances going? This isn't even a coherent point but our finances are worse this year than last so whatever point you're making is irrelevant.

* A new Board member should help - well you'd hope so but there's no evidence this will be the case.

* It wasn't pretty on Saturday - ding ding ding, well done, you've hit the nail on the head. This is what the supporters care about above all - most couldn't give a stuff if we're millions in the hole they'll turn up as long as the team is playing well. They don't have to win every week but they do have to be competitive.

Kent, Barry, Clisby? They've shown nothing to date so can't say they have taken another step forward. It is early days and may work out but you can't claim it as a win as yet. Heard the same things about numerous players over the last decade. Matt Jones is looking OK, Terlich has his moments but nothing special yet.

I'm not saying we should sack Neeld, I'm not saying we shouldn't - I can see arguments both ways, I think we need to give him a chance to have a decent crack at it - by the same token the early signs don't look promising and it will be difficult to justify keeping him on if the team continues tor ack up these demoralising defeats. Regardless of what anyone may think if we keep getting belted supporters will turn away in droves. I fail to see why being competitive is seen as exclusive to rebuilding the team into a finals/premiership contender, Sydney can do it, North can do it, Geelong has done it - it's football not rocket science, you don't have to be completely hopeless to have to have a chance to build towards being great.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Few things I took from it:

- Media love to jump to conclusions (and we are the whipping boy)

- Nice to know the boys are in good spirits

- Seems that the bearded back line are the trouble makers of the team (if its an issue tell them to shave Neeld)

- With all the staff/coaches surely they were aware what the players where doing and therefore didn't mind

Also a little birdy told me that Jack Viney was born in the Storm ice baths!!!