Caroline Wilson's descent into gutter journalism

[Clark_Kent 315]

Has anyone else thought that perhaps it was a smart move to have already traded most our picks for players.

Could this have been a planned way to already get people signed up so they can't be taken off us.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

We'd be truly incompetent if we can't stretch this out so that any penalty - should it be necessary to impose one - takes effect after this coming draft.

[P-man 13,366]

Seriously??

http://www.theage.co...1030-28h8n.html

How ridiculous. The tanking 'timeline' goes back a hell of a lot further than August 2009, let me tell you...

Adam Cooper is clearly a Carlton fan. What a ridiculous representation.

[The Chazz 4,077]

On this discussion of stripping us of pick 4 - I fail to see how that is an adequate penalty or punishment.

The offence was committed by the club in 2009 (if at all). That has no reflection whatsoever on our performance in 2012 (in fact it goes against it, in that, we didn't get pick 4 because we tanked, clearly, as if we'd successfully tanked, we'd be on top of the ladder now). To take a current pick off us causes us more harm than it does fix the issue.

Whilst a fine might not be the preferred option, it is more appropriate than taking pick 4 off us. A personal fine/suspension against any person who is still at the club and can be proved to be involved in taking would also be appropriate (e.g. Schwab, Connolly, McLardy).

However, I do not believe we tanked, so I don't think this will arise.

I had to laugh at this post TU.

You have put a lot of thought in to WTF could happen to us if we are guilty, but you sign off with a we didn't do it ending.

If you were that confident we didn't do it, why worry yourself with what might happen?!

[The Chazz 4,077]

Has anyone else thought that perhaps it was a smart move to have already traded most our picks for players.

Could this have been a planned way to already get people signed up so they can't be taken off us.

Present.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Surely we can drag this out 4.5 weeks

Edited October 30, 2012 by Steamin Demon

[PaulRB 6,393]

Should be able to drag it out given "Tanking investigation "timeless""

[bazza226 74]

Latest Caro article does not look good...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tanking-affair-afl-to-lift-the-lid-on-melbournes-vault-20121030-28h3c.html

[The Lobster Effect 893]

Hate to say it but there would be many thinking if we just lost Pick 4, we'd be getting off lightly.

Just looked up what happened to Carlton in 2002, wasn't flash!

• $1M fine
  
• Loss of draft picks No. 1, 2, 31 and 34 from the 2002 National Draft
  
• Loss of all draft picks in the 2003 Preseason Draft
  
• Loss of first and second round draft picks in the 2003 National Draft
  

[jnrmac 20,109]

Carlton 'won' 3 spoons in a row. Nothing untoward there &^$#$$#%$##

. Does anyone really think we weren't the worst team in 2008, 2009 and 2010????

[dees189227 12,394]

Yeah Mark Stevens basically said the same thing as what Caro has written and there will be more in the H/Sun tomorrow. Face it we are going to cop some sort of punishment. But I still stress we cant be punished for the richmond game. If its deemed to be true then Dean Bailey should be banned form footy, Chris Connely should be sacked as well as Josh Mahoney and Schwab has to go as well.

But it seems the players wernt trying to lose. Unfortuantely the one person who could shed some more light on this is no longer with us. Anyway poor Neeld who was no where near the club will have to cop some form of punishment if the afl take draft picks away or worse. He shouldnt be punished.

[olisik 4,060]

Looks like teams aren't allowed to be sh$t anymore.

Punish the sh^t teams for being Sh#t = perfect way to make the sh#t teams even sh^$ter and divide the competition further.

[1858 285]

Collingwood / Hawthorn / West Coast all took advantage of bottoming out.

Port, in the words of Mark Williams "put the queue in the rack"

Carlton are the godfathers of tanking and even made jokes about it.

Wallace admitted to not trying to win during a game at Richmond.

None of the journos want to go there. It's as if the harder they go on Melbourne the more innocent the other clubs are and they can serve theirs and the AFLs agenda of sweeping it under the carpet.

Wilson, Barrett and many more are the cogs.

[olisik 4,060]

Hang on, if we lose all our draft picks then wouldn't that mean we would go into next season with only 35 odd players or so?

[titan_uranus 25,020]

I had to laugh at this post TU. You have put a lot of thought in to WTF could happen to us if we are guilty, but you sign off with a we didn't do it ending. If you were that confident we didn't do it, why worry yourself with what might happen?!

Unlike you, I don't close my mind to differing opinions, options, circumstances, or outcomes.

I personally don't believe that we tanked. But I might be wrong. If I am, and we did tank, then those were my opinions on what may/will/should happen.

Is that so hard to understand?

[olisik 4,060]

I had to laugh at this post TU.

You have put a lot of thought in to WTF could happen to us if we are guilty, but you sign off with a we didn't do it ending.

If you were that confident we didn't do it, why worry yourself with what might happen?!

who cares?

[beelzebub 23,380]

Heres my take...

IF our motivation to experiment, rest, etc etc was to lose games to better our draft choces then we tanked and deserve to be punished.

In my little world it's as simple as that.

No if's and buts. We cheated and deserve sanctions.

Very hard to prove, but if there was this meeting as reported and there was instruction to lose games then IMO we cheated.

who made you boss, or anyone for that matter as to what we see/saw as a priority at that time for the playing group.

Seems youre in that group that seem to think the goal IS to win every week regardless.

The goal is to win a premiership. its that simple. If experimentation and player development takes precedent in that objective then so be it.

Edison had a thousand failures for every success. Do we particularly remember the path to success : the failures, the learning, the development ??

No, we remember such things as the Phonograph, The incandescent light bulb, Film projectors, the parallel circuit,and a little company called GE

the relevance ?? Ultimate success is a consequence of being prepared to LOSE even if thats not the ultimate objective.

Is there some absolute regimen of how any club /team/ etc can or cant learn ?

Surely the sufficient punishment for losing is losing itself. Im sure Thomas didnt relish in stuffing up and I bet he didnt think he was. He was just educating himself and arming himself with better knowledge and resources .

Given the Authoritive body instructed and rewarded its constituents via a bizarre code of handouts then its surely incumbent upon them ( the AFL ) to wear the consequences of their actions.

We cant have cheated, we only followed the guidelines given.

[olisik 4,060]

As soon as the AFL sanction the MFC all the betting companies will be talking to their lawyers about legal ramifications on all the bets that took place.

AFL needs to tread carefully here.

[Hannibal 5,814]

On this discussion of stripping us of pick 4 - I fail to see how that is an adequate penalty or punishment.

The offence was committed by the club in 2009 (if at all). That has no reflection whatsoever on our performance in 2012 (in fact it goes against it, in that, we didn't get pick 4 because we tanked, clearly, as if we'd successfully tanked, we'd be on top of the ladder now). To take a current pick off us causes us more harm than it does fix the issue.

Yes, it's called a penalty.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

To suggest we "cheated"is ludicrous. We were confronted by a system that was fundamentally flawed and the simple fact is, precedents, as far as so-called 'tanking' is concerned, had long been set.

If Carro's article has any veracity and the AFL place any kudos on evidence which can be best described as spurious, then Mr. Demetriou, et al, will need to be consistent and punish all those who went before us.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Has anyone else thought that perhaps it was a smart move to have already traded most our picks for players.

Could this have been a planned way to already get people signed up so they can't be taken off us.

If that was the case they would have traded pick 4 too.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Even Stynes' legacy demands such an action.

What a joke, he was around for the last time we had a stuff up like this - on the receiving end.

It's time you and others finally admitted that our club is being destroyed by a pack of unaccountable, incompetent, "boys club" mates and it has been this way since the Stynes board took over.

The only thing that separates us from the other clubs that have been tanking is our sheer ineptitude.

"The Vault" - that pretty much says it all doesn't it? Was the great privilege of running the MFC some kind of game to them?

And this is all coming from someone who still thinks tanking is a good idea (me, that is).

I imagine that you and others feel very similar to a lot of cycling fans at the minute.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[Hannibal 5,814]

Pretendergast and Dean Bailey can f&ck right off. How they got jobs anywhere after screaming failures they were at MFC is beyond me. And they're rats, too

Don't take #4 please. Make us not play for premiership points next year.

Development year anyway. And we'll finish last = pick 1. Poetic.

My poor old elder Brother thinks this might be the end for him. If the sanctions are harsh he'll lose all hope. To have a meeting with 10 club officials to outline a system of trying to lose is laughable. It was always going to come back to haunt us because people leave clubs all the time. Why the need to have so many involved ?

Brock McLean won't be welcome back at this club even when he's 80.

[Hannibal 5,814]

What a joke, he was around for the last time we had a stuff up like this - on the receiving end.

It's time you and others finally admitted that our club is being destroyed by a pack of unaccountable, incompetent, "boys club" mates and it has been this way since the Stynes board took over.

The only thing that separates us from the other clubs that have been tanking is our sheer ineptitude.

"The Vault" - that pretty much says it all doesn't it? Was the great privilege of running the MFC some kind of game to them?

And this is all coming from someone who still thinks tanking is a good idea.

I imagine that you and others feel very similar to a lot of cycling fans at the minute.

I agreed with the tanking, but certainly not the inept way it has been handled. Bailey put the club in it in his final press conference. And yes, there are drongos at the club.

Btw, fark off.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

To have a meeting with 10 club officials to outline a system of trying to lose is laughable. It was always going to come back to haunt us because people leave clubs all the time. Why the need to have so many involved ?

Brock McLean won't be welcome back at this club even when he's 80.

I agreed with the tanking, but certainly not the inept way it has been handled. Bailey put the club in it in his final press conference. And yes, there are drongos at the club.

Btw, fark off.

So who handled it then huh?

You think Stynes' legacy demands that we take action? This fiasco is his legacy.

Why don't you take some of your own advice?