Jump to content

Beams signs for 3 ... Cloke edges closer to Dees?


Range Rover

Recommended Posts

That (the MFC example) is a very specific response (which includes only one successful forward) to a general discussion point I raised - lift your eyes and try to think beyond the present. To give two examples, several years ago recruiters went for athletes and tried to make them footballers - it didn't work. Recruiters also ignored short players for several years, now that has changed. All I am saying is that football is constantly changing - we would not have had Ron Barassi if Norm Smith wasn't open to innovation (or the 1964 flag).

Nothing in football is set in concrete.

True, that was just the best example I could think of!

All I'm saying, and I stopped writing the post PSD just wrote about halfway through, was that its just so important to have those big guys.

And at the moment, only 1 is available, and he wont cost us anything except a pile of money we have to park somewhere, so might as well be him!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know it's history, but some of our best teams didn't have dominating big key forwards (Barry Bourke!), but others did (Bob Johnson). Doesn't that tell us something? Shouldn't we be moulding a team, rather than just following the latest moves of other clubs? Currently, the Hawkins/Cloke style of forward is in vogue. Maybe we should be the innovators and go for multiple goalkickers regardless of size or position - time to think outside the square? Just a lateral thought for a moment.

Sadly I agree - I think we have been guilty of following the trends for a long time.

However I do not get that feeling this time with Neeld. Most premiership teams do have the two big forwards..... see Pennant St dee's post

Edited by Unleash Hell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have forgotten Darren Bennet. Didn't he kick around 90 in 1990? If you have forgotton him it is likely because he played like Cloke.

Yep Bennett was good in 1990 and OK in 1989. Don't know if he got 90 though more like 70 but yeah, was still a very good player that year. OK then you can count our good forwards in my time on one hand and a thumb. B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Cloke and Clark were in our forward line it would be frightening to coaches to ponder who do I put my best defender on and while I may cover those two who goes to Jurrah, Howe and Sylvia. Stevie J was a loose cannon until he got suspended for 6 games by Cats leadership group in 07 then he just took off, I think Sylvia is showing signs of it sinking in. We have underestimated the injury he copped at the start of the year.

As many forward options as you can get is a bonus, Kennedy, Darling, Lynch, Lecras, Nicoski & a resting Cox/Natanui were a nightmare to all defences in 2011 & will be next year if they are all fit again

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many current teams have one big key forward, better still, how many have two big key forwards Nasher?

How about the five teams currently at the top of the ladder for a start off?

Sydney: Goodes, LRT

Adelaide: Tippett, Walker

Hawthorn: Franklin, Roughead

Collingwood: Cloke, Dawes

West Coast: Kennedy, Lynch

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about the five teams currently at the top of the ladder for a start off?

Sydney: Goodes, LRT

Adelaide: Tippett, Walker

Hawthorn: Franklin, Roughead

Collingwood: Cloke, Dawes

West Coast: Kennedy, Lynch

Damn you, facts and reason. Damn you, evidence and argument. I will now slink back in to the dark, to make obscure references to topics I cannot define and issues I won't argue or give example to.

If only I barracked for Adelaide!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


No old55, he may have asked for too much at Collingwood, especially if they are now being squeezed in the salary cap, and hence we need to be careful in what we may offer him, if we do. IMO, he's starting to look like someone who's been caught out wanting too much.

Look I'll try to break it down for you ...

Hardnut goes to an auction.

Auctioneer: What am I bid for this fine property?

Man in black and white jumper: 750

Auctioneer: I've got a bid of 750, The property is not yet on the market, what are you offering?

Hardnut: 750

Auctioneer: I've already got a bid of 750 from the man in black and white

Hardnut: that's all I'm willing to pay

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep Bennett was good in 1990 and OK in 1989. Don't know if he got 90 though more like 70 but yeah, was still a very good player that year. OK then you can count our good forwards in my time on one hand and a thumb. B)

Pretty sure it was mid 80's
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've got to remember as well, I think, that many contenders also have an abundance of midfielders who kick goals.

I agree.....

But you also forget it is easier to go to the draft (unless you are the MFC ffs even Richmond got cotchin) and draft and develop quality mids then it is to draft a quality Key forward.

Again look at the MFC - how many good quality key forwards have we drafted lately??? And how long do they take to develop???

Get Cloke

Edited by Unleash Hell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I am hearing I don't believe we are into Cloke.

what are you hearing ?? :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I am hearing I don't believe we are into Cloke.

makes sense if you believe the article that says we are after Hogan in the mini draft. I don't think we would want Cloke,Clarke and Hogan it's a bit of overkill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look I'll try to break it down for you ...

Hardnut goes to an auction.

Auctioneer: What am I bid for this fine property?

Man in black and white jumper: 750

Auctioneer: I've got a bid of 750, The property is not yet on the market, what are you offering?

Hardnut: 750

Auctioneer: I've already got a bid of 750 from the man in black and white

Hardnut: 750 plus we'll front-end the first year by 100%, that should be worth something

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about the five teams currently at the top of the ladder for a start off?

Sydney: Goodes, LRT

Adelaide: Tippett, Walker

Hawthorn: Franklin, Roughead

Collingwood: Cloke, Dawes

West Coast: Kennedy, Lynch

Yeah, these went through my mind (also Geelong with Hawkins/Pods). I'm not sure you can include Sydney, WC and Hawks quite as simply as you have because they play variations a lot (and form/injury has had an effect on some combinations as well this year).

However, did you read PSD's historical post which looked more at CHF/FF combinations? I think we need to clearly define what two 'power forwards' means - in modern football, I would have thought Hawkins/Pods, Tippet/Walker and maybe Cloke/Dawes were closest.

The discussion I promoted was 'innovative thinking' as opposed to following the pack, if you read back through the posts. It was not anti Cloke, anti power forwards, and there was no agenda to it - just a chance to think laterally. To throw one more thought in - Wayne Carey and Pagan's paddock?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look I'll try to break it down for you ...

Hardnut goes to an auction.

Auctioneer: What am I bid for this fine property?

Man in black and white jumper: 750

Auctioneer: I've got a bid of 750, The property is not yet on the market, what are you offering?

Hardnut: 750

Auctioneer: I've already got a bid of 750 from the man in black and white

Hardnut: that's all I'm willing to pay

If only football auctions were as simple as property auctions!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Yeah, these went through my mind (also Geelong with Hawkins/Pods). I'm not sure you can include Sydney, WC and Hawks quite as simply as you have because they play variations a lot (and form/injury has had an effect on some combinations as well this year).

However, did you read PSD's historical post which looked more at CHF/FF combinations? I think we need to clearly define what two 'power forwards' means - in modern football, I would have thought Hawkins/Pods, Tippet/Walker and maybe Cloke/Dawes were closest.

The discussion I promoted was 'innovative thinking' as opposed to following the pack, if you read back through the posts. It was not anti Cloke, anti power forwards, and there was no agenda to it - just a chance to think laterally. To throw one more thought in - Wayne Carey and Pagan's paddock?

Look I understand your position perfectly ...

You're questioning the value of two key forwards in today's football when the top 7 teams on the ladder all have this structure and you're open to recruiting Cloke but you don't want to pay more than the offer he already refused at Collingwood.

You can't be a little bit pregnant, we're either going for Cloke or we're not - 5 years x $1M with a substantial part front-loaded gets us in the game. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree on not wanting to overpay, but given we have to pay 92.5 - 95% of our TPP each year I would be appalled if we were paying our current team as much as the Pies or Cats or Hawks need to pay their players (i.e. our boy are yet to get close to, yet alone win a flag) so we should have scope to pay more to players coming in (i.e. Cloke).

To my thinking, if we land Cloke, we are a year closer to finals and GF.

And I am really tired of waiting.

Edited by PaulRB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're not in a position to do the same things better than other more well resourced clubs.

I agree with Hardnut that we need to think outside the box and be daring. that's what recruiting Cloke is about. We can recruit him using our TPP gap AND bolster our midfield using our draft advantages this year. We should do both.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting Cloke will massively boost our chances of landing a quality mid or two. They are not mutually exclusive, if any thing the opposite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I am hearing I don't believe we are into Cloke.

makes sense if you believe the article that says we are after Hogan in the mini draft. I don't think we would want Cloke,Clarke and Hogan it's a bit of overkill.

Any more to add from these two posts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting to note Malthouse's comments re Cloke in light of what people have been saying here about his underwhelming performance this season (and especially considering many of his critics agree that he had a very good/outstanding season last year):

"He's still the highest contested-marking player in the competition, and he's only about 10 goals off last year, he's lost a bit of confidence because he's attending to two players."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    WILDCARDS by KC from Casey

    Casey’s season continued to drift into helplessness on Sunday when they lost another home game by a narrow margin, this time six points, in their Round 13 clash with North Melbourne’s VFL combination. The game was in stunning contrast to their last meeting at the same venue when Casey won the VFL Wildcard Match by 101 points. Back then, their standout players were Brodie Grundy and James Jordon who are starring in the AFL with ladder leaders, the Sydney Swans (it turned out to be their last

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    LIFE SUPPORT by Whispering Jack

    With Melbourne’s season hanging on a thread, Saturday night’s game against North Melbourne unfolded like a scene in a hospital emergency department.  The patient presented to the ward in a bad way. Doctors and nurses pumped life-saving medication into his body and, in the ensuing half hour, he responded with blood returning to his cheeks as he stirred back to life. After a slight relapse, the nurses pumped further medication into the bloodstream and the prognosis started looking good as the

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 19

    PREGAME: Rd 16 vs Brisbane

    The Demons head back on the road for their fifth interstate trip this season when they head up to Brisbane to take on the Lions under lights on Friday night at the Gabba. Who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 212

    PODCAST: Rd 15 vs North Melbourne

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Tuesday, 25th June @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG over the Kangaroos in the Round 15. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 52

    VOTES: Rd 15 vs North Melbourne

    Captain Max Gawn has a considerable lead over the injured reigning champion Christian Petracca in the Demonland Player of the Year Award. Alex Neal-Bullen, Steven May, & Jack Viney make up the Top 5. Your votes for the loss against the Kangaroos. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 51

    POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs North Melbourne

    The Demons almost blew a six goal lead and ultimately hung on to win by three points over the North Melbourne Kangaroos at the MCG and have temporarily jumped back into the Top 8.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 568

    GAMEDAY: Rd 15 vs North Melbourne

    It's Game Day and it very well could be the last roll of the dice for the Demon's finals aspirations in 2024. A loss to the bottom side would be another embarrassing moment in a cursed year for the Dees whilst a win could be the spark they need to reignite the fire in the belly.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 709

    THE HUNTER by The Oracle

    Something struck me as I sat on the couch watching the tragedy of North Melbourne’s attempt to beat Collingwood unfold on Sunday afternoon at the MCG.    It was three quarter time, the scoreboard had the Pies on 12.7.79, a respectable 63.16% in terms of goal kicking ratio. Meanwhile, the Roos’ 18.2.110 was off the charts at 90.00% shooting accuracy. I was thinking at the same time of Melbourne’s final score only six days before, a woeful 6.15.51 or 28.57% against Collingwood’s 14.5.89

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 8

    FROZEN by Whispering Jack

    Who would have thought?    Collingwood had a depleted side with several star players out injured, Max Gawn was in stellar form, Christian Petracca at the top of his game and Simon Goodwin was about to pull off a masterstroke in setting Alex Neal-Bullen onto him to do a fantastic job in subduing the Magpies' best player. Goody had his charges primed to respond robustly to the challenge of turning around their disappointing performance against Fremantle in Alice Springs. And if not that, t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 7
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...