DEATH BY A THOUSAND KICKS

[Sir Why You Little 37,032]

It's not the loss that is the worry. It is the way it ocurred.

Our list is under achieving physically & mentally.

We were treated like children yesterday by Hawthorn. Most of the list should know wwhat is expected to play an AFL match.

Does the MFC still think it is 2008? Year one of the great rebuild?

Hawthorn rebuilt after 1996? The MFC are still talking about it.

[Guest gidon]

I don't think ppl are getting upset that we lost a NAB cup game, it's the way we lost. TBH I expected to lose, but I expected a competitive performance, and that it was not. From what I read most expected a loss but also expected a competitive effort too. Except for Howe, what I saw last night was a team of full of guys who have strengths, but who also have gaping deficiencies. The most alarming thing is the dumb footy that was played. We may have won the contested/clearance stats, but throwing the ball on the boot under pressure is dumb footy and coaching. The Lions killed us in the first half under pressure too.

I see more painful times ahead as I expected, and I don't see a midfield incapable of competing. And I don't see to much at Casey to get me excited either. Gys, Blease and Tappy are to raw and inexperienced make a difference this year

[red and blue forever 1,018]

It's not the loss that is the worry. It is the way it ocurred.

Our list is under achieving physically & mentally.

We were treated like children yesterday by Hawthorn. Most of the list should know wwhat is expected to play an AFL match.

Does the MFC still think it is 2008? Year one of the great rebuild?

Hawthorn rebuilt after 1996? The MFC are still talking about it.

it does feel like we have been in rebuild mode for quite a while now. at this rate by the time we have rebuilt the kids will be retiring.

[Face Your Demons 175]

People have mentioned statistics from the game but is there a link to their source?

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/18551/Default.aspx#fixtureid=7891&tab=Stats

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I am so relieved we managed to land Mitch Clark. Without him, and Neeld's other new hard, mature-age recruits (not to forget Neeld himself and his new assistants), we would definitely be looking at another 2011 this year.

And the Hawks' Matt Suckling, a low end rookie draft pick, is the type of player I think we have been hoping Jamie Bennell would/will become.

Buddy Franklin is also the arsiest player I have ever watched play the game.

I am so sick of him kicking goals on chippa when chippa does nothing wrong and he pulls these goals out of his ass. Makes our All Australian Full back look ordinary when he is nothing of the sort.

[Guest Dr Who]

Anyone who says the result of this practice game is not important, has no understanding whatsoever, of AFL footy.

Anyone who looks at the short term results of 1 practice match (Funny you wern't saying these things after we beat Collingwood last week), has no understanding whatsoever, of AFL footy.

Great clubs have pride in EVERY game they participate in , we still seem to accept not playing well in all practice games, using tired old excuses like.... we had so and so out, it's only a pre season game, we were experimenting, etc etc. CRAP!

Sydney under Paul Roos made an art of ignoring "practice games" - it did them no harm. In fact Roos would argue you have to look at the big picture.

Only fools will accept yesterdays performance by most of our players.

Only fools cant see what we are actually doing. We are completely changing our game style, we are restructuring how nearly ever player on our list plays their role within our structure. We have a completely new coaching staff that need to be given time, plenty time, and should not be burdened by the mistakes of the past.

Most of our players were intimidated...totally.

We wont be the first or the last team to be totally intimidated by the Hawks. Give them (the Hawks) some credit, they are a damn good side.

The MFC is still 2-3 years away from competing with the power clubs.

Now thats better. Sad, frustrating for some maybe, but true. But no need for this negative, yo-yo, slash your wrists out burst regarding the result of 1 "practice match". The season is long, lets all just chill.

The disposal issue has returned with a vengeance.

Welcome to the full ground press. Something our players still are only 3-4 games into learning.

Hawthorn are now the yardstick and they simply toyed with us in body and in mind.

Think you will see them do that to many, many sides in 2012. We got a great lesson last night, let the learning process continue.

We have a very long way to go !!!!!

No kidding, and a journey we need to embrace & support as supporters, not resort to negative, "keyboard hero" negative outbursts at any opportunity. Think long-term not short term, the glass is always half full not half empty.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Anyone who looks at the short term results of 1 practice match (Funny you wern't saying these things after we beat Collingwood last week), has no understanding whatsoever, of AFL footy.

Sydney under Paul Roos made an art of ignoring "practice games" - it did them no harm. In fact Roos would argue you have to look at the big picture.

Only fools cant see what we are actually doing. We are completely changing our game style, we are restructuring how nearly ever player on our list plays their role within our structure. We have a completely new coaching staff that need to be given time, plenty time, and should not be burdened by the mistakes of the past.

We wont be the first or the last team to be totally intimidated by the Hawks. Give them (the Hawks) some credit, they are a damn good side.

Now thats better. Sad, frustrating for some maybe, but true. But no need for this negative, yo-yo, slash your wrists out burst regarding the result of 1 "practice match". The season is long, lets all just chill.

Welcome to the full ground press. Something our players still are only 3-4 games into learning.

Think you will see them do that to many, many sides in 2012. We got a great lesson last night, let the learning process continue.

No kidding, and a journey we need to embrace & support as supporters, not resort to negative, "keyboard hero" negative outbursts at any opportunity. Think long-term not short term, the glass is always half full not half empty.

Indeed, but a journey that must be had - the problem is the talk, the vitriol, the promises.......none of our latest draftees (with the possible exception of Howe) hit the packs with any conviction and resilience. That sh!ts me.

[monoccular 17,422]

From the little I managed to see on TV, it seemed that the big gap was crisp and clean disposal to players working their buts off to make space and options.

Skill?

Fitness?

Enthusiasm?

Experience and familiarity with game plan?

PS: just watching SBS UEFA Barcelonla v Bayer Leverkusen. Barcelona absolutely ruthlessly dominated with magic foot skills. Similarities - once a champion team gets on top, watch out! 7-1!

Edited March 11, 2012 by monoccular

[Hip & Shoulder 64]

Every cloud has a silver lining... we beat Collingwood last week, we got done like dinners by Hawthorn this week. How bad does that make Collingwood, who this week got thrashed by Adelaide?

[rjay 24,917]

While Howe looks a good talent, it's insulting to put him above Robbo. I'd say it's a safe bet he'll never kick as many goals as Robbo ever did. He was a great servant for our club, is near the top of our club goal kickers list, and literally won us games off his own boot and helped us into finals series'. At this stage, Howe is a kid who has done nothing, so to even compare him to Robbo is insulting.

It really irks me when supporters talk up current players and put down past players like Robbo, Yze, Bruce and the Daniher era etc. Those players took us to our best period of football in decades. The current batch have taken us to nearly our worst. While some of them look to be good talents, that's all they are at this point until they prove otherwise. It's been too long without finals, and it's getting tiresome supporting a weak on-field club. I'll always stick by them, but it's hard to get excited by them at present.

I'm sorry but I just don't share your opinion of Robbo and hope that Howe doesn't fall into the same trap of going for the spectacular at the expense of the team thing. I think Robbo the entertainer took over from Robbo the footballer.

[P-man 13,366]

I think what hurts is seeing teams like Richmond and North taking positive strides forward, and genuinely knocking on the door of the Top 8. Teams that 2-3 years ago were at the same stage of development, or arguably behind in Richmond's case.

It was a near full strength side last night. No hiding from it. We are so far away from being a contender it doesnt bare thinking. One positive is that we looked to have done alright in the most recent draft, so perhaps the rebuild has started in earnest.

What concerns me is that great teams build a winning culture by having the senior players pass this down to the next generation. Who is mentoring the younger players in their specific roles now? Really?

As for the new gameplan, playing hard contested ball is admirable but only if you know what to do with the footy once you win it. Bombing it long every time is a backward step. Several decades backward.

I tell ya what, ANY footy fan who thinks they have it tough should live in the shoes of an MFC fan for a week.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I think what hurts is seeing teams like Richmond and North taking positive strides forward, and genuinely knocking on the door of the Top 8. Teams that 2-3 years ago were at the same stage of development, or arguably behind in Richmond's case.

It was a near full strength side last night. No hiding from it. We are so far away from being a contender it doesnt bare thinking. One positive is that we looked to have done alright in the most recent draft, so perhaps the rebuild has started in earnest.

What concerns me is that great teams build a winning culture by having the senior players pass this down to the next generation. Who is mentoring the younger players in their specific roles now? Really?

As for the new gameplan, playing hard contested ball is admirable but only if you know what to do with the footy once you win it. Bombing it long every time is a backward step. Several decades backward.

I tell ya what, ANY footy fan who thinks they have it tough should live in the shoes of an MFC fan for a week.

It's also the degree of intensity that leaves me shaking my head - they avoid contact. There, I've said it!

[jnrmac 20,058]

Only three of our players had 10 kicks or more.

If its a practice match we didn't get much practice. We learned nothing. We change nothing. We had our backsides handed to us on a plate.

As for Brad Sewell and his 5 free kicks. Mostly for ducking his head. The maggots were disgraceful.

[Macca 16,961]

I'm sorry but I just don't share your opinion of Robbo and hope that Howe doesn't fall into the same trap of going for the spectacular at the expense of the team thing. I think Robbo the entertainer took over from Robbo the footballer.

Robbo would make a lot of our current players look 2nd rate . He was often a match winner . Most of our players of the last 5 years have been "match losers" . Are you happy with "bruise free" types ? At the very least Robbo had a go . More than I can say about quite a number on our list .

Comparing Howe to Robbo is ridiculous in the extreme . What's he done so far that's so special ? I like Howe and I reckon he has a lot of potential but he's got a fair way to go to match Robbo's heights . In fact , if Howe turns out to be as good as Robbo I'll be very happy .

Robbo played 228 games , kicked 428 goals and helped us get to many finals series' . Not too shabby .

Have a bit of respect for a terrific past player .

Cheers .

Edited March 11, 2012 by Macca

[dpositive 1,665]

Have just finished reading reports of last night game, and press releases before I commented.

Thanks for all contributors.

Many expressions that I really really recognised and many that I have touched on in my responses in other threads.

It just got me thinking.

1 Depth??? I thought it was there from training reports but now that the game has started really wonder

2 Development??? I hope that the NAB cup is a continuation of training as many state and is viewed by all coaches and players as such

3 Playing stategies???? Did we have a false sense of reality with the Collingwwod model? do we have Plan B/C/...H? to counter other teams? Jeremy Howe talked about the structure not working. Can we recognise and quickly apply another plan when one isnt working?

4 The Umpires??? For many years I have watched and heard commentators in confusion over interpretations that we have consistently suffered. It seems that the trend is continuing. Free kicks can be significant and impact on scoreboard results. A mate of mine who has played coached and loves footy (but is not a Melb supporter) has always accised me of bias and is probably partly correct and has always stated that the player in front going for the ball etc will always get the advantage of the free kick. I propose many occasions when this does not happen to our players.Do we have an opportunity to invite the umpires to help us play improved footy and have their support for our style of play?? something positive so we dont have to complain about the apparent inconsistencies which I saw in many reports fom the few games we have played.

5 Future success??? Success is such a fleeting thing and many of us have been waiting for so long

I see the future as tomorrow and thereafter so would like to see the success in a more tangible fashion and at least expressed as such.

As our coaches and players are new and are better educated and therefore hopefully able to make the transitions to success, learning more complexity more quickly and giving my optimism the needed spark

Sorry to bother you like Big Jim on another thread I probably just wanted to share this from the isolation of my despair, I feel better already!!!

[sue 9,102]

While it is no excuse for the thrashing we had, the umpires were bewildering at times and allowing (as much as one honestly can) we seemed to get the worst of it. They have been pretty bad throughout the NAB cup, even in matches between teams I didn't give a toss about. I can only assume the ump coaches were throwing in some rookies.

[biggestred 5,076]

The ump coaches have a lot to answer for. The umpires do their best but they are told garbage.

Eg. Holding the ball. Last 3 weeks I've seen so many players pinged for going in hard and getting the ball, being tackled straight away with absolutely no chance of getting rid of the. Ball correctly. Why go and get the ball if you will just get done? This is not just sees games but lots of games I've seen.

This isn't the umpires fault as they are clearly being told to do this.... Geish you have a lot to answer for.

[Jack Jack 415]

From the little I managed to see on TV, it seemed that the big gap was crisp and clean disposal to players working their buts off to make space and options.

Skill?

Fitness?

Enthusiasm?

Experience and familiarity with game plan?

PS: just watching SBS UEFA Barcelonla v Bayer Leverkusen. Barcelona absolutely ruthlessly dominated with magic foot skills. Similarities - once a champion team gets on top, watch out! 7-1!

I managed to get to the game and that's what I saw too. Ball use was much better by the Hawks, we seemed to fumble a lot and I thought we dropped a few gettable marks.

Hawks work rate was better, they found space and spare men.

I also noticed during the warm up there was a midfield drill where there'd be a tap out and then successive hand balls while on the move. During the game I thought we lacked attack on the ball at times and ended up flat footed. Too often I saw we waited for the ball and didn't attack.

It was a fairly flat performance in my opinion.

BTW someone needs to get a message to Davey to keep his hands out of the oppositions back. He needs to find a better way of dealing with marking contests.

[McQueen 17,864]

Hopefully we account for Port over in Adelaide and start the H&A season on a positive note.

I agree. Just like last season.

[Macca 16,961]

Blaming the umpires is just another excuse . I haven't seen enough decisions yet that I would question but then again I never blame umpires . I see it as a cop out .

We lost the game last night all over the ground and on the scoreboard . We did win the contested possession count however , which was most pleasing . We're so far behind the top teams in so many aspects it's not funny . But ..................we're not on our own in that area and I reckon we can match it with the most of the other teams .

Neeld has a lot of work to do . Last night I saw so many fundamentals not adhered to . We've been taught to play a certain way in the last 4-5 years and old habits die hard .

A lot of our players don't know how to position themselves when they've got a chance for a free kick . And we often tackle in a very clumsy way . Again , Neeld has a lot of work to do .

Umpires just call it as they see it . There's no bias against us .

Cheers

Edited March 11, 2012 by Macca

[Choko 493]

Hawthorn DID NOT have their full strength team in......notably minus the best player in the AFL, Sam Mitchell, and Shaun Burgoyne, who would have had a picnic last night. Any suggestion the Nab cup is not meaningful is just desperate thinking to cover disappointment. We are light years from the standard required to be a top 8 side, and it is inconceivable to imagine us being remotely competitive against a top 4 side. A frank absence of skill, and the ability to protect the ball getter/carrier the greatest disappointments. Hawthorn's use of the shepherd is just beautiful to watch, and their physicality to create opportunity for the runners, coupled with their sharp disposal and vastly superior marking ability is inspiring.

It will be interesting to see how our team develops this year, but at the moment, and as far into the future as can be seen with this list, I'm afraid we may as well be playing in a different league. Far from taking consolation in the 'just the NAB cup' refrain, I think last night's game was the most revealing for this club since the Geelong game last year.

How can one post be so right and so wrong at the same time?

No issue with your assessment of where we are at. I agree that Hawthorn were terrific to watch in the manner in which they worked off the ball, and their defined gameplan is way ahead of ours.

But to give some significance to a NAB cup game and to go further and say that a pre-season game is the most revealing since 186 is just ridiculous.

Do you really believe that Carlton won't score in a second half against Brisbane this year? Or lose by over 10 goals?

Do you really think Geelong will have the first 9 kicked on them at Skilled against anyone during the season? How about Richmond? Will GWS get within 3 points of Collingwood?

What did our win over Collingwood tell you? Are we better than them now? Or is that just NAB Cup?

There is no doubt Hawthorn is ahead of us. But let's not get too excited about a pre-season game.

[Maldonboy38 6,398]

I haven't watched the game yet, but it sure has been an interesting read here on Demonland.

If many of us reflect on our main frustrations over the past 3 - 4 years, one has been our intensity at the contest and our lack of ability to physically stay in a contest. Against the Hawks last night we matched them in contested possession. In the midst of a big loss I reckon many are missing what a big achievement this is by Neeld adn the coaches. Think about it - we matched a top four side in contested possession! Once we can maintain this new standard of playing the contested ball well, we can then begin to develop the poise and polish as we spread and deliver forward.

Our defence is still our strength and I like the way we set up forward. The coaching effort has to now bring some class and poise to our midfield. Grimes, Trengove, Jones (at times and it gets better each week), Watts all have this poise and class, and I reckon by about round 5 - 6, it will begin to emerge. Yes, at this stage, we definitely lack the A-grade midfielder but we are not too far away.

One step at a time.

[dpositive 1,665]

I am not at all blaming the umpires. I was really referring to the way we play. Someone suggested Daveys hands in the back needs consideration and perhaps protecting a space does inhibit your ability to get in front of an opponent. There are many mentions throughut the threads of need to attack the ball and perhaps measured aggression needs some consideration.

What analysis is done of umpiring decisions??? ie not just numbers how why when and where inplay???

[Choko 493]

I think what hurts is seeing teams like Richmond and North taking positive strides forward, and genuinely knocking on the door of the Top 8. Teams that 2-3 years ago were at the same stage of development, or arguably behind in Richmond's case.

It was a near full strength side last night. No hiding from it. We are so far away from being a contender it doesnt bare thinking. One positive is that we looked to have done alright in the most recent draft, so perhaps the rebuild has started in earnest.

What concerns me is that great teams build a winning culture by having the senior players pass this down to the next generation. Who is mentoring the younger players in their specific roles now? Really?

As for the new gameplan, playing hard contested ball is admirable but only if you know what to do with the footy once you win it. Bombing it long every time is a backward step. Several decades backward.

I tell ya what, ANY footy fan who thinks they have it tough should live in the shoes of an MFC fan for a week.

How was the game plan when we beat the Magpies last week?

To say you know, or to judge, the game plan based on 3 pre-season games is absurd. Are you basing it on the media, which has nothing else to talk about?

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

I don't think the Hawthorn Melbourne matches will have that reversal.

Sadly, I agree but you can bet your life on the others being reversed.