Watts v Hurley

[deanox 9,989]

Horrible to read stats show that watts averages more possessions per game than hurley, otherwise hurley averages slightly more goals and inside 50s while watts had more rebounds and tackles, probably reflecting positions played.

Overall after ~70 games I'd say they are very even. Watts uses it better, gets abit note of it, hurley attacks it harder kicks more goals would be a layman summary.

Another 50 games though and things could be very different though.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

the other thing to consider is the bombers have been a stronger team, better supply and delivery to hurley than watts could get

[McQueen 17,867]

I appreciate stats, especially in this easy-to-read format.

It is now proven beyond reasonable doubt that football is one of the leading causes of statistics.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

Watts will end up the better player.

No doubt at all, Jack Watts is going to be a superstar.

[dee-eee 231]

Hurley reminds me of Neitz, good honest player, good club man, but missing the game winning ability that very good players have, and very overated by his supporters.

Watts will be a taller James Hird. Will go close to being the best player in the AFL, much better player than Neitz/Hurley.

Nonsense . Though age and injury caught up with Neita in his final years he was a star in his prime. Wayne Carey famously named him as his toughest opponent ahead of Glen Jacovich .

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Player Statistics Comparison Jack Watts Name Michael Hurley Melbourne Demons Team Essendon Bombers Defender, Forward Position Forward 67 Career Games 76 Sandringham Dragons Origin Northern Knights March 26, 1991 Date of Birth June 1, 1990 22yr 4mth Age 23yr 1mth 196cm Height 195cm 88kg Weight 97kg 2008 National Draft Last Drafted In 2008 National Draft Round 1, Pick #1 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #5 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Essendon Bombers 2013 Stats for Season 2013 12 Games 13 8.2 Kicks Per Game 7.5 6.2 Handballs Per Game 5.0 14.4 Disposals Per Game 12.5 5.2 Marks Per Game 4.6 1.0 Goals Per Game 1.2 0.8 Behinds Per Game 0.8 1.4 Tackles Per Game 0.5 0.5 Hitouts Per Game 0 1.1 Inside 50s Per Game 2.5 0.4 Goal Assists Per Game 1.0 0.4 Frees For Per Game 0.8 0.9 Frees Against Per Game 0.4 5.8 Contested Possessions Per Game 5.5 8.5 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 7.5 10.9 Effective Disposals Per Game 8.7 75.7% Effective Disposals % Per Game 69.6% 1.9 Clangers Per Game 1.5 0.7 Contested Marks Per Game 0.8 1.3 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 1.8 0.6 Clearances Per Game 0.1 1.8 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.2 1.8 One Percenters Per Game 2.1 0.2 Bounces Per Game 0 Player Statistics Comparison Jack Watts Name Michael Hurley Melbourne Demons Team Essendon Bombers Defender, Forward Position Forward 67 Career Games 76 Sandringham Dragons Origin Northern Knights March 26, 1991 Date of Birth June 1, 1990 22yr 4mth Age 23yr 1mth 196cm Height 195cm 88kg Weight 97kg 2008 National Draft Last Drafted In 2008 National Draft Round 1, Pick #1 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #5 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Essendon Bombers Career Stats for Season Career 67 Games 76 8.6 Kicks Per Game 8.6 6.6 Handballs Per Game 5.8 15.3 Disposals Per Game 14.4 5.2 Marks Per Game 5.2 0.7 Goals Per Game 1.2 0.4 Behinds Per Game 0.9 1.6 Tackles Per Game 1.0 0.4 Hitouts Per Game 0.1 0.7 Frees For Per Game 0.9 0.9 Frees Against Per Game 0.5

Perhaps you could just post the link and we can see it in a more user-friendly format?

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

Nonsense . Though age and injury caught up with Neita in his final years he was a star in his prime. Wayne Carey famously named him as his toughest opponent ahead of Glen Jacovich .

I think it's a great comparison. Neitz started off and in a good team would've remained a very good defender. I bet you one dominant key forward would name Hurley as his toughest opponent. Maybe Nick Riewoldt who Hurley towelled in his first season.

Hurley (like Neitz) relies on work rate and some speed on the lead to get his marks and goals up forward but (like Neitz) can't take strong pack marks or one on one grabs.

What did Neitz win? One Coleman as a predominant FF? Neitz was very good in his prime but never at the level of the real star forwards of the era like Lloyd or Fraser Gehrig.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I think it's a great comparison. Neitz started off and in a good team would've remained a very good defender. I bet you one dominant key forward would name Hurley as his toughest opponent. Maybe Nick Riewoldt who Hurley towelled in his first season.

Hurley (like Neitz) relies on work rate and some speed on the lead to get his marks and goals up forward but (like Neitz) can't take strong pack marks or one on one grabs.

What did Neitz win? One Coleman as a predominant FF? Neitz was very good in his prime but never at the level of the real star forwards of the era like Lloyd or Fraser Gehrig.

dual all-australian in two key positions, 306 games, captain for 9 years, led our goalkicking 7 times.. he wasn't bad

Edited July 26, 2013 by Curry & Beer

[dee-eee 231]

That Neita could regularly negate Carey , the best player i have seen in more than half a century , makes him more than " a good honest player ".

[rjay 25,092]

I think the Neitz comparison is not a bad one but Essendon do have the luxury of playing Hurley back now, we didn't with Neitz. I think both of them were/are better defenders.

Neitz may have been one of the great CHB's but unfortunately we will never know.

[binman 43,801]

Funny this thread should have been bumped. I was thinking during the last quarter that Hurley might have hit his ceiling and i wondered about the comparisons on demonland a couple of years back between him and watts. There was quite a few dl posters who laughed at the idea Watts was a better player and would end up going past Hurley ( i was not one of them).

I like Hurley but as i thought 2 years back i reckon he has limited scope fro improvement. Great heart, good footy brain but one paced and poorish kicking skills. Watts has heaps more upside and we've yet to see his best.

Good comparison to Neitz btw. Sorry to say but i reckon whilst being a great dees man he was only a notch or two above a good to average player.

Edited July 26, 2013 by binman

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

dual all-australian in two key positions, 306 games, captain for 9 years, led our goalkicking 7 times.. he wasn't bad

Dual all-australian - yes that's fine. He was a very good defender and a very good full forward. 306 games - yes he had great longevity and durability. Led our goal kicking doesn't mean much he played full forward in an era where you had a designated full forward and played to a structure around it, he should've led our goal kicking.

I'm not saying Neitz was bad. He was a club legend and if not a champion player then at least a very good one across the league but he wasn't a superstar by any means as a forward.

He wasn't overly tall for a key forward, got most of his ball on a lead, liked to crash and bash but didn't regularly take big pack marks and you could back him to impact most games but not change games against the best of the best. Hurley as a forward plays like Neitz and I'll stick to that point. He has 10 more years and improvement left if he's going to have a good as record as Neitz but I still see a lot of similarites. And just like Neitz he may well be even better as a defender.

I just agree with the comparisons of Hurley to Neitz and I also agree with comparisons of Watts to Hird in a way. Watts has yet to prove he is fearless or can win games like James Hird. But he does have that time with the ball and silky skills.

I'd also say that Hurley remains a pretty decent chance to make it as a key forward who is very handy and just as good a shot to make it as a class key defender. And for that reason I'd take him if I had to pick one of the two.

Watts has shown me a lot of promise but at the moment if I'm betting I think his career ends up on par with Jack Gunston as a third tall who can go into the midfield than it does progressing to the Hird level or even the Goddard level. It's not that he doesn't have more talent than Hurley but Hurley is closer to fulfilling his as a handy tall at either end.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Watts will end up the better player.

No doubt at all, Jack Watts is going to be a superstar.

5th season in and still yet to be an average player let alone a superstar - but I guess better late than never!

[Dees2014 2,377]

I think it's a great comparison. Neitz started off and in a good team would've remained a very good defender. I bet you one dominant key forward would name Hurley as his toughest opponent. Maybe Nick Riewoldt who Hurley towelled in his first season.

Hurley (like Neitz) relies on work rate and some speed on the lead to get his marks and goals up forward but (like Neitz) can't take strong pack marks or one on one grabs.

What did Neitz win? One Coleman as a predominant FF? Neitz was very good in his prime but never at the level of the real star forwards of the era like Lloyd or Fraser Gehrig.

Oh I heartily disagree. Neitz played in a very successful team and I would argue he was the heart and soul of that team. He WAS a superstar, and a most underrated one by the AFL cognosenti. He in my view was very much superior to both Lloyd and Gehrig. Compare him to Carey or Hart and you might have an argument - but both of those were once in a generation.

[Adam The God 30,420]

Funny this thread should have been bumped. I was thinking during the last quarter that Hurley might have hit his ceiling and i wondered about the comparisons on demonland a couple of years back between him and watts. There was quite a few dl posters who laughed at the idea Watts was a better player and would end up going past Hurley ( i was not one of them).

I like Hurley but as i thought 2 years back i reckon he has limited scope fro improvement. Great heart, good footy brain but one paced and poorish kicking skills. Watts has heaps more upside and we've yet to see his best.

Good comparison to Neitz btw. Sorry to say but i reckon whilst being a great dees man he was only a notch or two above a good to average player.

I'd disagree with you on Hurley having a good footy brain, binman. He's a particularly dumb footballer for mine. That's one area Watts certainly has him covered. It's the different approaches to attacking the ball that may seem to place Hurley above, but he's just a rough, gruff boofhead really. Watts has vision and poise that Hurley would dream of, if his brain could work a little faster. Hurley's skills are reasonably average too. He can take a mark and he attacks the footy. He has size and that makes him dangerous, but aside from that very little else.

Edited July 26, 2013 by AdamFarr

[What 18,810]

wow

Some people comparing Hurley to Neitz
???

Embarrassing stuff

Neitz was a champion, inspirational leader and a matchwinner who has many accolades including All Australians, B and F, Coleman, etc....

Hurley has achieved nothing and he doesn't have much improvement left judging from what I have seen.

SO disrespectful to Neitz

[Waltham33 475]

5th season in and still yet to be an average player let alone a superstar - but I guess better late than never!

Give me Watts skill and Hurley's determination and you have a superstar. Right now i think Watts is a little like Daniel Wells, will sparkle at times however you will always be thinking, could he have done more. Please let this change

[Whispering_Jack 30,673]

Watching Hurley strike a purple patch during the final quarter last night (yes, I know the game was all but over), you couldn't help but notice his aggression at the ball and his determination and strength when in attack. He could easily have finished with 5. If Watts can adopt that approach to his game, he would race ahead in the comparison stakes.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Both very disappointing players. Hurley is a poor man's David Neitz, who just hasn't progressed. Very ordinary contested mark, fumbles and just looks far better down back - always has, and Watts is one of the poorest pick number ones in history. If Watts was picked up at pick 50 you'd say he'd been an ok pick. You'd say he shows talent, but still has a tonne of work to do to become a player. But as pick ones go he's a total bust.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Player Statistics Comparison Jack Watts Name Michael Hurley Melbourne Demons Team Essendon Bombers Defender, Forward Position Forward 67 Career Games 76 Sandringham Dragons Origin Northern Knights March 26, 1991 Date of Birth June 1, 1990 22yr 4mth Age 23yr 1mth 196cm Height 195cm 88kg Weight 97kg 2008 National Draft Last Drafted In 2008 National Draft Round 1, Pick #1 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #5 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Essendon Bombers 2013 Stats for Season 2013 12 Games 13 8.2 Kicks Per Game 7.5 6.2 Handballs Per Game 5.0 14.4 Disposals Per Game 12.5 5.2 Marks Per Game 4.6 1.0 Goals Per Game 1.2 0.8 Behinds Per Game 0.8 1.4 Tackles Per Game 0.5 0.5 Hitouts Per Game 0 1.1 Inside 50s Per Game 2.5 0.4 Goal Assists Per Game 1.0 0.4 Frees For Per Game 0.8 0.9 Frees Against Per Game 0.4 5.8 Contested Possessions Per Game 5.5 8.5 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 7.5 10.9 Effective Disposals Per Game 8.7 75.7% Effective Disposals % Per Game 69.6% 1.9 Clangers Per Game 1.5 0.7 Contested Marks Per Game 0.8 1.3 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 1.8 0.6 Clearances Per Game 0.1 1.8 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.2 1.8 One Percenters Per Game 2.1 0.2 Bounces Per Game 0 Player Statistics Comparison Jack Watts Name Michael Hurley Melbourne Demons Team Essendon Bombers Defender, Forward Position Forward 67 Career Games 76 Sandringham Dragons Origin Northern Knights March 26, 1991 Date of Birth June 1, 1990 22yr 4mth Age 23yr 1mth 196cm Height 195cm 88kg Weight 97kg 2008 National Draft Last Drafted In 2008 National Draft Round 1, Pick #1 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #5 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Essendon Bombers Career Stats for Season Career 67 Games 76 8.6 Kicks Per Game 8.6 6.6 Handballs Per Game 5.8 15.3 Disposals Per Game 14.4 5.2 Marks Per Game 5.2 0.7 Goals Per Game 1.2 0.4 Behinds Per Game 0.9 1.6 Tackles Per Game 1.0 0.4 Hitouts Per Game 0.1 0.7 Frees For Per Game 0.9 0.9 Frees Against Per Game 0.5

No one is getting out of that paragraph alive.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Is Hurley destined to become the next Kozzy? Mobile hat rack.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Why not?

Hurley was ready made and produced early and was touted as 'THE NEXT BIG THING' in the Hereld Sun. He is not much better now than the day he was drafted.

Watts has improved big time, and while he still has me shaking my head sometimes, he looks like he might actually make improvement into the player we thought he might be.

At the moment Ollie Wines is making most of wish we drafted him. Maybe we should be patient with Toumpas and not bag the [censored] out of him at every chance?

Fair enough.

[ThreeOneSix 954]

Tom Hawkins taken his time to arrive as a legitimate gun forward - whilst not great - he is still very good.

Hawkins dominated the juniors and obviously taken his time to fit into the AFL, as he has gotten older, he has improved A LOT.

I think the older these flat track junior bullies get, the more they improve, Watts was also another dominate forward as a junior.

The difference between Watts and Hawkins is body size, Jack has only just got a body capable of even playing forward this year.W

Watts will be a gun, he is going to be a very very good player, so hopefully he signs up, the kid has all the tools to make it in the AFL,

he has just had to wait till his body has devoleped and with this his confidence has risen:)

[mjt 640]

I think it's a great comparison. Neitz started off and in a good team would've remained a very good defender. I bet you one dominant key forward would name Hurley as his toughest opponent. Maybe Nick Riewoldt who Hurley towelled in his first season.

Hurley (like Neitz) relies on work rate and some speed on the lead to get his marks and goals up forward but (like Neitz) can't take strong pack marks or one on one grabs.

What did Neitz win? One Coleman as a predominant FF? Neitz was very good in his prime but never at the level of the real star forwards of the era like Lloyd or Fraser Gehrig.

Nietz is the only AFL player to be AA CHB and then go forward and win a Coleman, if he played forward his whole time he would have 850 goals to his name,i miss watching him play and theres not another player on our present list thats within Koo Wee of him, Nietz was one the best pack marks this clubs ever produced.