WELCOME TO THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - JACK VINEY

[olisik 4,060]

If we can get Viney with our 2nd rounder i hope we pick up Wines, he sounds like a champ and that his good mates with Viney it'll mean that the culture will be strong in our midfield and there is a low chance of him doing a Scully.

Kid seems to put in the effort to, a bit of Jonesy in him.

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

Is Viney still about the same size as last year (178cms) and does he have decent leg speed? Those are the two reasons that some recruiters are marking him down. He's played a big mans game in Junior footy and they are not sure he can replicate that at senior level.

[LeBron James 41]

Is Viney still about the same size as last year (178cms) and does he have decent leg speed? Those are the two reasons that some recruiters are marking him down. He's played a big mans game in Junior footy and they are not sure he can replicate that at senior level.

Looked to have pretty good leg speed, he burst away from a few packs.

[jnrmac 19,203]

OMG Viney only had 8 kicks 8 handballs and 4 tackles. What are we doing drafting this hack??????

[olisik 4,060]

OMG Viney only had 8 kicks 8 handballs and 4 tackles. What are we doing drafting this hack??????

Pretty sure Morton got more possessions then that last game he played

[daisycutter 28,637]

Is Viney still about the same size as last year (178cms) and does he have decent leg speed? Those are the two reasons that some recruiters are marking him down. He's played a big mans game in Junior footy and they are not sure he can replicate that at senior level.

I think so (looks like that at mfc training).

I guess size and speed will be legitimate concerns for recruiters, however I like to think he will be another sam mitchell

as well as his physical ferocity he seems to have that buckley/scully single-minded determination to really focus on getting the best out of himself

[Jordie_tackles 354]

I was down there for the game, Thought Viney was pretty good, hard to follow who is who though, agree Wines seemed to be the other stand out, couldnt find Whitfield alot of teh time although he was around just hard. I thought Viney had a around 3-4 clearances from what i see in the last 2.5 quarters? ran and made alot of space all day, running both ways through the centre. He is REALLY small, 178 would be it imo, was noticably smaller than almost all on the ground today.

I havnt looked at the stats and its hard to keep track of all these numbers you dont know but i would have had Viney easily in my bests for the day, saw a bit of Luke Mcdonald around the ball when i worked out his number (norths father son next year).

Didnt work out Vlastuins number till late so cant really comment. number 9 for Metro O'Rouke? off the half back looked solid in the last half imo, anyone else have an opinion?

Viney with 16 touches and a few tackles and clearances is pretty goof for 80 minutes work, didnt seem to go to the bench much either

[Disco Demons 92]

I was down there for the game, Thought Viney was pretty good, hard to follow who is who though, agree Wines seemed to be the other stand out, couldnt find Whitfield alot of teh time although he was around just hard. I thought Viney had a around 3-4 clearances from what i see in the last 2.5 quarters? ran and made alot of space all day, running both ways through the centre. He is REALLY small, 178 would be it imo, was noticably smaller than almost all on the ground today.

I havnt looked at the stats and its hard to keep track of all these numbers you dont know but i would have had Viney easily in my bests for the day, saw a bit of Luke Mcdonald around the ball when i worked out his number (norths father son next year).

Didnt work out Vlastuins number till late so cant really comment. number 9 for Metro O'Rouke? off the half back looked solid in the last half imo, anyone else have an opinion?

Viney with 16 touches and a few tackles and clearances is pretty goof for 80 minutes work, didnt seem to go to the bench much either

sounds like viney has done enough to put doubt into peoples mind to me...gws and gc that is

[olisik 4,060]

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=139929

[Arrow 1,257]

Was exactly what he needed to be today. You can see the kid constantly runs to the right places and puts his body on the line at all the appropriate times. He still does some things that you expect an u/18 football to do eg. handballing on the ground to himself to run onto (which just went out of bounds) but the most impressive thing about him is his toughness and his mind.

It would be a real disappointment for me if we stood him up; the son of a loyal player, who's done everything we have asked of him over the last 2 years, just to pick a player we'd rate a couple of places higher on the draft board.

[olisik 4,060]

Was exactly what he needed to be today. You can see the kid constantly runs to the right places and puts his body on the line at all the appropriate times. He still does some things that you expect an u/18 football to do eg. handballing on the ground to himself to run onto (which just went out of bounds) but the most impressive thing about him is his toughness and his mind.

It would be a real disappointment for me if we stood him up; the son of a loyal player, who's done everything we have asked of him over the last 2 years, just to pick a player we'd rate a couple of places higher on the draft board.

It isn't 'just a player we'd rate a couple of places higher on the draft board'. Its the whole overall picture of whats best for the team. It could be that Viney is a type of player whose type is in abudance in the draft and a similair type can be picked up later, it could be the difference between picking up u17 yr old Hogan whose being touted as the next Wayne Carey.

End of the day its been all put on the table so we just need to see how it plays out. I dont think people should be upset if the MFC doesn't pick Viney. His old man is a responsible guy and I am sure he understands it all, its part of his job at the end of the day. Last thing we want is a head recruiter whose biased.

Viney will be a great player though regardless if he is a good fit for us or not.

[DemonWA 3,504]

It would be a real disappointment for me if we stood him up; the son of a loyal player, who's done everything we have asked of him over the last 2 years, just to pick a player we'd rate a couple of places higher on the draft board.

THIS

[olisik 4,060]

THIS

Theres alot more to it then that.

[Biffen 12,380]

Can we get Garlett from WA?

He was a cut above .

[biggestred 4,357]

Don't worry about us saying we won't take him. It's just to bluff gws and gold coast - even if he did go, he'd surely come back after 2 years

[Born to Run 204]

Was exactly what he needed to be today. You can see the kid constantly runs to the right places and puts his body on the line at all the appropriate times. He still does some things that you expect an u/18 football to do eg. handballing on the ground to himself to run onto (which just went out of bounds) but the most impressive thing about him is his toughness and his mind.

It would be a real disappointment for me if we stood him up; the son of a loyal player, who's done everything we have asked of him over the last 2 years, just to pick a player we'd rate a couple of places higher on the draft board.

It will be a real dissapointment - but it will highlight the issues which will continue to plague the new FS system if there are genuine dummy bids. Until someone calls a bluff, people will keep doing it.

If the club says he is pick 3 material, we should use pick 3. If he is pick 7 material - we should not. The really grey area is in between.

I just wish there was a better way to do this. The worst thing about the whole rule is that it disadvantages the bad clubs more than it does the good clubs. Imagine Collingwood finish first and had a potential FS in the top 3 - they are massive winners. Its the pointy end of the draft where each decision is so critical

[Guest KingDingAling]

No doubt Viney is a gun, but he is 178cm which is small; he isnt overly quick.

He is a clearance specialist, but his kicks were ineffective today, hands were ok.

I simply wouldn't pick him over Wines on what I saw today. That's only my opinion.

I thought Gartlett was very impressive today.

Grundy absolutely dominated, looks a certainty for top 3, absolute lock one would think.

Toumpas was another who stood out. 

I'll be honest, if clubs taken best 2 players ahead of us and they were legit about it - Viney wouldn't be in that 2, but they'll bid anyway, especially Sheedy.

[Whispering_Jack 28,023]

Going on match stats alone, Viney had 3 disposals more than the #1 pick Lachie Whitfield.

Not bad for a kid having a hit out at this level about 6 weeks after suffering a broken jaw and with only one school outing in between.

Let's hope we can cut a deal with AFL/GWS/GCS and Julai Gillard to ensure that we don't have to use our first pick on him but either way, he's worth it.

I suspect he's more popular around these parts than Tom Scully and it will be interesting to see what happens if they ever clash (although, and I have the greatest admiration of young Tom's ability, I'm not sure that Scully will go into the same places that Jack will find himself in games if you know what I mean).

[DemonWA 3,504]

Theres alot more to it then that.

maybe, but not in my eyes. Passing on Viney after basically signing him up last year would be poor form

[DemonWA 3,504]

I simply wouldnt pick him over Wines on what I seen today, thats only my opinion.

Its sad that the draft is basically governed by who played well at the carnival.

[Arrow 1,257]

It isn't 'just a player we'd rate a couple of places higher on the draft board'. Its the whole overall picture of whats best for the team. It could be that Viney is a type of player whose type is in abudance in the draft and a similair type can be picked up later, it could be the difference between picking up u17 yr old Hogan whose being touted as the next Wayne Carey.

End of the day its been all put on the table so we just need to see how it plays out. I dont think people should be upset if the MFC doesn't pick Viney. His old man is a responsible guy and I am sure he understands it all, its part of his job at the end of the day. Last thing we want is a head recruiter whose biased.

Viney will be a great player though regardless if he is a good fit for us or not.

Absolutely. I do strongly agree with your point Olisik, and having met Todd I know he wouldn't put Jack over the needs over the football club. I am differing in my view to alot here but I think it's something Melbourne need to do for more than a footballing stand point.

I have reasonable knowledge of the upper echelon of this years draft picks and Jack is well and truly within the range of 3-12. He is a gun. He's small, but football is removing itself from the year's where we drafted 'athletes' and back to picking footballers. And Jack Viney is a footballer's footballer.

The moral standpoint is my second and more important point. Melbourne over the past 2-3 years have made some moves that some both outside and inside the club have questioned. Letting go off McDonald and Bruce as we did has let hurt the image of us. Jack Viney is not our only F/S pick coming up. Billy Stretch is coming through the system also and him watching Jack get brought into the club than thrown out to GC or GWS for little benefit IMO sends another bad message- We're not a family, we don't look out for our own- we look out for ourselves.

Football is a business, everyone understands that. But for certain servants you are willing to give an extra year too (hindsight: James McDonald) and for some future servants you are willing to reach in the draft knowing they will bust their bloody ass off for 250 games and want to show up every critic who suggests we shouldn't have taken them where we did (hopefully: Jack Viney).

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,283]

No doubt Viney is a gun, but he is 178cm which is small; he isnt overly quick.

He is a clearance specialist, but his kicks were ineffective today, hands were ok.

I simply wouldn't pick him over Wines on what I saw today. That's only my opinion.

I thought Gartlett was very impressive today.

Grundy absolutely dominated, looks a certainty for top 3, absolute lock one would think.

Toumpas was another who stood out. 

I'll be honest, if clubs taken best 2 players ahead of us and they were legit about it - Viney wouldn't be in that 2, but they'll bid anyway, especially Sheedy.

Completely agree with your assessment. I would only add Matt Crouch who was a class above all except Wines in the first game. Hopefully GWS get hot for Grundy and take him as based on today Toumpas (3), Wines (4), Garlett (other comp pick) and Viney with 2nd rounder would be a very exciting outcome.

[Harcourt 146]

It's a tricky situation but end of the day we've got to try and get him in the 2nd round. If we've engineered this "leak" or whatever then I applaud it and it is (in my mind) exactly what we should be doing.

We must pick the best player and we must make it known that we will pick the best player. Todd will be understanding and is probably all over the planning.

I'm hoping the draft order is fairly clearly established when the time come around because it will show up any false bids for Viney if he isn't considered top 3-4.

Although it would be a [censored] for Todd and more importantly Jack I would [censored] myself if GWS false bid, we called their bluff and Jack went up there and in his 2nd year said he would put off all contract talk until the end of the year. Then nominate for the draft if GWS won't deal him to us reasonably and say you're not speaking to any other clubs a la Luke Ball and Collingwood and he slips to us for free in his prime. Won't happen but I can dream. Ideally everyone just plays fair and we get him second round.

Unless GWS are totally mental (which could well be true) or induced by others clubs (which the AFL would crack down on right?!) then I can't see them false bidding if there are stand outs ahead of Viney.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,539]

But GWS & GCS aren't stupid and won't bid for Daniher because they know a bevy of other clubs will bid for him before Essendon's pick, and the bombers won't let him go.

GWS & GCS only need concern themselves with JV, and making sure we pay the maximum for him provided it doesn't adversely affect their net result.

Our job is to make it in their best interests to NOT bid for JV, by offering them the very pick they'd be forcing us to use in a deal weighted in their favour, and/or a deal where they essentially get something for nothing.

In this way, pick 3 becomes a lot like a mini-draft pick.

We won't be left alone to use it ourselves - it will only have any tangible value if we use it in a trade (to GWS or GC).

Obviously we forfeit the 2nd round pick for JV in that case, but you'd expect to get a much better return for pick 3, even if it is a deal weighted in the other party's favour.

I think it is essential that pick 3 is included in any trade deal, because that precludes one or both of the teams reneging on letting JV slip through.

Surely for any deal to be agreed, it would need to be signed off before the F/S bidding, but dated for it to be within the trade period, and therefore legal. If pick 3 is not included, they could theoretically reneg and hold us to an inequitable deal.

It also would need to be pre-signed to provide some form of a guarantee for GWS & GCS that we won't secure JV in the 2nd round, then reneg ourselves on the following trade deal.

That sounds good in theory but how do we satisfy BOTH Gold Coast & GWS? Considering they'll both finish below us we will need to do deals with both of them which is going to look very suss to the AFL who has already warned about draft tampering. I'm resigned that we will use pick 3 on Viney I just hope we don't waste pick 4 on someone who may not be worth it like Boak.

[Clintosaurus 6,592]

Don't worry about the Gold Coast - they will take Whitfield. GWS need a ruckman and should take Grundy. If we finish 16th the we can expect to get Jack with the second round pick unless Vlad changes the rules again to include comp picks in father/son bidding. Would not surprise.