Where are we REALLY at right now ??

[furious d 464]

Sorry, but we have been listening to similar types of scenarios and "excuses" as these for faaaaaar tooooo looong !!! It's good you are such a dedicated supporter of the club and are trying hard to convince yourself and others that your points are legitimate, BUT we do not have anymore acceptable excuses left in the bag of excuses...Simple as that !!! 1964 Last Premiership... Please !!!!! If we keep accepting mediocrity and half hearted performances then we are just as at fault as the FD and people who over the years have failed us so badly...NO more why we shouldn't be expected to make the finals.. I have heard this for too long. We have had everything "go our way" with draft picks etc and favourable draws THIS year in particular. Why are some of our long term supporters so accepting of these past failures ???. As I stated earlier, Why have teams like Sydney, St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn, etc etc. been in similar situations an flownd past us to play in finals and made us look "second Rate?

' Let's be brutally honest with ourselves PLEASE !!! We have the best list we have had for years and we MUST do something with it... !!! Believe me, I LOVE THE MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB, but I cannot accept any more comments like "we will develop into a finals contender in 2013" Give me a break !!!It will NOT happen if we do NOT make a bigger effort this year. We are in the 8 !!! Big Deal !! We beat Brisbane, Gold Coast and drew with the Swans.. We HAVE to beat better teams. We have to win 3 of the next 4 games or we are BACK where we have been for years !! I am very passionate about that !!

So it's the current football departments fault that we haven't won a flag since 64. You do realise that a lot of people have been sacked since then, starting with Norm Smith mid season 65. They certainly didn't accept mediocrity back then and look where that got us.

You're more than welcome to expect finals. It's a free country, stick on a top hat and call yourself Abe Lincoln for all I care. The thing is, some of us prefer to base our expectations on reality. I agree that we have the best list we've for years, but the real quality on that list has played less than 50 games, most of it less than 25. That's not accepting mediocrity, it's accepting reality. That's not to say we can't make finals this year, it's possible not probable, and imo irrelevant to our long term premiership aspirations.

Gold Coast have a fantastic list if you don't take experience into account, and look how that's worked out for them so far. St Kilda, the Bulldogs and Hawthorn have flown past us because they were rubbish in the early 2000's. they had a 4 year head start on us while the reverand had his crack. I for one don't want us to become a finals contender like we were under Daniher, I want to see us become a premiership contender.

Then you finish with a couple of truly weird claims. Firstly, we won't make finals in 2013 if we don't make a bigger effort this year. I would have thought that making a bigger effort in 2013 would have more of an effect on our ability to make finals that year. Then you say being in the 8 now is not good enough, after subjecting us to your diatribe about expecting finals this year.

I'm definately in a wee minority around here, but I do see improvement from last year. I don't think we'd have been anywhere near 2-1-1 from 4 ordinary performances last year. We'd probably have lost the Sydney and Brisbane games as well. Young sides will be up and down and there's no doubting we've been in a bit of a trough for the past month but I don't think it's time for panic stations just yet.

[deejammin' 2,370]

I am not particularly worried whether we win or lose on the weekend in terms of the future, obviously I'm a rabidly passionate fan and will be going nuts during the game, but in the long run I'm more interested in HOW we play. If we show intensity and appetite for the whole contest, and don't make the characteristic dumb looking turnovers too often, I will be satisfied. I'm looking forward to the game and I think the players will be too, its a chance to show what we're made of in a stiff environment against a team around our level in good form.

On the present topic, yes we need to get games into our players, but it is also about HOW these games are played, if young players learn bad habits, play a 'soft' brand of football and fade out of games regularly then this won't help development, rather it hurts it. Working in a performance industry I am aware that 'practice makes permanent' and if we continue to put into practice bad habits they will stick rather than becoming 'perfect' and some type of miraculous development occuring. Obviously there is a learning curve, but the players need to set the bar higher in terms of quality of application for us to honestly think we are developing.. This is one of the many cahnces we will have this year, lets hope we show something.

[old dee 23,792]

We have to do the devlopment time but there's no time for f'ing around. GC are going to have pick 4 this year and pick 1 & 3 in 2012. They are going to have an awesome list and from 2018 will start dominating the competition for 4-5 years. We need to win a flag before then. Free Agency is not going to help us in the long term. It's win a flag before 2018 or never see one in my lifetime.

Agreed me too, Actually I may well be pushing the envelope.

If I am still going I will be too old to celebrate.

Perhaps a strong Milo!

[Sir Why You Little 37,044]

I am not particularly worried whether we win or lose on the weekend in terms of the future, obviously I'm a rabidly passionate fan and will be going nuts during the game, but in the long run I'm more interested in HOW we play. If we show intensity and appetite for the whole contest, and don't make the characteristic dumb looking turnovers too often, I will be satisfied. I'm looking forward to the game and I think the players will be too, its a chance to show what we're made of in a stiff environment against a team around our level in good form.

On the present topic, yes we need to get games into our players, but it is also about HOW these games are played, if young players learn bad habits, play a 'soft' brand of football and fade out of games regularly then this won't help development, rather it hurts it. Working in a performance industry I am aware that 'practice makes permanent' and if we continue to put into practice bad habits they will stick rather than becoming 'perfect' and some type of miraculous development occuring. Obviously there is a learning curve, but the players need to set the bar higher in terms of quality of application for us to honestly think we are developing.. This is one of the many cahnces we will have this year, lets hope we show something.

Totally Agree, getting games into our kids is paramount, but it is also the type of game, the type of attitude learnt before during & after these games. This for the MFC has been the "lost" ingredient since 1965. I have a feeling the club is well aware of this, which is why we are hearing small movements. If the FD has hit the "wall" and is struggling to communicate with our list then we must act fast....at the same time not be too hasty...sometimes big things can be sorted with a few words.

[ucanchoose 1,816]

Where are we right now?

100 percentage points more confident than St Kilda. There is a path we don't want to go down

[bush demon 2,041]

We are amongst about 5 teams aiming for 8th.

We are not a good team and we be will shown to be so in games this year.

I don't really know why people thought we would suddenly be pushing the top 6.

Coll, Geel, Haw, Freo, Carl, and WB are way better than us, and I think StK is too (unsure). We are a lot closer to Brisbane than we are to the first 6 teams I mentioned.

"But rpfc, it's not the wins and losses but HOW we play."

Sure it is...

brisbane are giving the sainters some curry. our bad patch really started end of last yeasr when we lost the last three, continuing into pre-season. ps we are only a brad green mis-kick away from being 3 wins, 1 loss, one draw.

[Nasher 33,616]

It's win a flag before 2018 or never see one in my lifetime.

Why's that? You're not that old, old (I'm assuming 55 is your birth year). Does that also mean if we snatch a flag or several during that 2013-2018 window, it/they will be the last you'll ever see?

If Gold Coast's dynasty period is 2018 on then the chances are it'd be over by ~2021. The chances are also that you'll live beyond the age of 65.

[Crompton's the man 659]

What do we lack?

possibly these :

1. a strong and arrogant FF or CHF who can shuck the opposition's best defender/s and stand tall ( he could be in the team already )

2. midfielders who can brush off tackles and in the alternative - make them stick

such players are probably already on the list

Confidence will cause the corner to be turned - and it has to happen on the field.

It may not be a popular viewpoint but for what it's worth - we played some really interesting footy against the Hawks

[plg31ni 2]

lol at the 1s.

This is for anyone that rolls their eyes at the mention of MFCSS.

You blokes take yourselves too seriously and you don't seem to like "Rookie" comments on this unofficial site.

Now you are starting to give punctuation lessons and using that childish teenage Text "lol" creation. How precious you are. Well that does not trouble me one ounce I assure you. I am telling it as I see it and the way it actually is as can be seen since 1965 and your sarcasm is so commonly known as the "wit of fools". This site appears to be a little bit of a clique for those who love the old we'll be right mentality.I am a person who rightfully expects results from a team I have been dedicated to since I was very young. Winning isn't everything...there is nothing else in professional sport.

Hawthorn were asked to merge with us at one stage if you remember and Donn Scott ripped up a mock Demon/Hawks jumper in front of a hall full of Hawthorn Supporters... They have since won a flag !!! (more punctuation marks)We don't even look like it.

Get real boys and say it how it is NOT how you would wish. I WANT US TO DO WELL... I think SOME of the posts on here indicate how we accept being unsuccessful far too easily. I lived through Melbourne's last 6 premierships, I know what it felt like. Some of you haven't seen one and accept that Some people have actually agreed with me on some of the points I have made on the two forums I have participated in thus far Whether they do or not bothers me little but I will say what I think and I have every right to do so. If those that can't accept what I say disagree by all means, but without the smart arse comments. Thank you

[rpfc 28,440]

This is a loaded post, and I was bored.

You blokes take yourselves too seriously and you don't seem to like "Rookie" comments on this unofficial site.

Newbies are fine, but it is startling when someone comes on here and appears to be intentionally looking for attention and searching for responses. We bite and the rest is history. Internet forums have this phenomenon known as 'trolls' and they can be quite annoying. If you stick around, you'll find a very nice place to lay your thoughts down.

Now you are starting to give punctuation lessons and using that childish teenage Text "lol" creation. How precious you are. Well that does not trouble me one ounce I assure you.

Er, excuse me, I have always given grammar lessons.

Never expected it to trouble anyone - a early footy coach once told me, 'if someone isn't helping you out and giving you advice, they don't think you're good enough.'

And the 'lol' is my one and only internet speak indulge (apart from acronyms). It's been of late, because of the hysterical (double meaning) reaction to the start of our footy season.

I am telling it as I see it and the way it actually is as can be seen since 1965 and your sarcasm is so commonly known as the "wit of fools".

I don't know if it is "the way it actually is" but you're more than welcome to say it like you think it is.

Sarcasm is prevalent on forums - it's easy and it's universal. But I like to think I diversify my comedy...

But I'm open to criticism.

This site appears to be a little bit of a clique for those who love the old we'll be right mentality.I am a person who rightfully expects results from a team I have been dedicated to since I was very young. Winning isn't everything...there is nothing else in professional sport.

If we are a clique - we are a bitchy one! We 'old boys' are constantly bickering...

And I hardly the "we'll be right" mentality. This is where my brow furrows - the only thing I want is a flag. I applauded the tanking, I appluaded the long term view to recruiting, I applauded the trading away the present for the future.

And winning is not everything - winning a fracking flag is everything.

Hawthorn were asked to merge with us at one stage if you remember and Donn Scott ripped up a mock Demon/Hawks jumper in front of a hall full of Hawthorn Supporters... They have since won a flag !!! (more punctuation marks)We don't even look like it.

Don't know why this is relevant but ok...

And of course we don't look like it - 19 months ago we 'won' our second wooden spoon in a row.

This is a slow climb - the Demons of 2011 are not near the best teams. Nowhere near.

Get real boys and say it how it is NOT how you would wish. I WANT US TO DO WELL... I think SOME of the posts on here indicate how we accept being unsuccessful far too easily. I lived through Melbourne's last 6 premierships, I know what it felt like. Some of you haven't seen one and accept that Some people have actually agreed with me on some of the points I have made on the two forums I have participated in thus far Whether they do or not bothers me little but I will say what I think and I have every right to do so. If those that can't accept what I say disagree by all means, but without the smart arse comments. Thank you

We wishing Watts had 5kgs more and 80 games behind him doesn't make it happen. I'm a realist and I don't want knee-jerk decisions to get in the way of winning that fracking flag. And IMO, deciding that Bailey is gone on the evidence of a month of footy is knee-jerk.

And you don't like the smart-arse comments?

Welcome to the internet...

If it helps you stay on here and vent your spleen - we all want the same outcome. We all want a flag.

Those saying Bailey is not the answer believe that, and those that say it is too early to make a decision also believe that.

[plg31ni 2]

This is a loaded post, and I was bored.

Newbies are fine, but it is startling when someone comes on here and appears to be intentionally looking for attention and searching for responses. We bite and the rest is history. Internet forums have this phenomenon known as 'trolls' and they can be quite annoying. If you stick around, you'll find a very nice place to lay your thoughts down.

Er, excuse me, I have always given grammar lessons.

Never expected it to trouble anyone - a early footy coach once told me, 'if someone isn't helping you out and giving you advice, they don't think you're good enough.'

And the 'lol' is my one and only internet speak indulge (apart from acronyms). It's been of late, because of the hysterical (double meaning) reaction to the start of our footy season.

I don't know if it is "the way it actually is" but you're more than welcome to say it like you think it is.

Sarcasm is prevalent on forums - it's easy and it's universal. But I like to think I diversify my comedy...

But I'm open to criticism.

If we are a clique - we are a bitchy one! We 'old boys' are constantly bickering...

And I hardly the "we'll be right" mentality. This is where my brow furrows - the only thing I want is a flag. I applauded the tanking, I appluaded the long term view to recruiting, I applauded the trading away the present for the future.

And winning is not everything - winning a fracking flag is everything.

Don't know why this is relevant but ok...

And of course we don't look like it - 19 months ago we 'won' our second wooden spoon in a row.

This is a slow climb - the Demons of 2011 are not near the best teams. Nowhere near.

We wishing Watts had 5kgs more and 80 games behind him doesn't make it happen. I'm a realist and I don't want knee-jerk decisions to get in the way of winning that fracking flag. And IMO, deciding that Bailey is gone on the evidence of a month of footy is knee-jerk.

And you don't like the smart-arse comments?

Welcome to the internet...

If it helps you stay on here and vent your spleen - we all want the same outcome. We all want a flag.

Those saying Bailey is not the answer believe that, and those that say it is too early to make a decision also believe that.

OK Boys.. I get the message. Maybe I am as frustrated as most of our long term supporters are. It is getting a little harder each year to listen to our club officials and coaching staff and the fancy TV ads featuring Ronald Dale Barassi trying hard to convince us to get on the Demon success wagon or let the Demon out etc. and to then watch us fail year after year. I love the Dees and I am sick of the ridicule and crap I have copped from supporters of other clubs over the last decade and many years before our 2000 Grand Final appearance. I haven't mentioned Bailey at all ?? I am not a great fan of his , nevertheless, but I am willing to accept the decision of the board and perhaps give him a little longer, but he has a bloody poor record for the time he has been with us.. Once again we will accept that as we do and press on regardless. He does not enthuse me one little bit and always states the obvious in all his press conferences and interviews.I admit I don't see what goes on behind the scenes or on the training track as I do not live in Victoria, but with all due respect to the man I wouldn't try and run through a brick wall for him when I hear him speak.there are a few coaches I hear that would get the adrenalin flowing. Unfortunately they do not coach Melbourne, but one or two I hope may be considered in the near future.. Maybe next year.. Sorry boys it's how I feel. By the way I am not looking for attention by posting what I do on these forums. I assure you I get plenty of attention writing columns and articles for an entirely different sport. I am merely a very passionate "Demon" I am also very used to the internet and sarcasm, possibly not too often from Melbourne supporters.. Happy Easter.

[RudeBoy 164]

In the eight.

[Red Sox 2]

OK Boys.. I get the message. Maybe I am as frustrated as most of our long term supporters are. It is getting a little harder each year to listen to our club officials and coaching staff and the fancy TV ads featuring Ronald Dale Barassi trying hard to convince us to get on the Demon success wagon or let the Demon out etc. and to then watch us fail year after year. I love the Dees and I am sick of the ridicule and crap I have copped from supporters of other clubs over the last decade and many years before our 2000 Grand Final appearance. I haven't mentioned Bailey at all ?? I am not a great fan of his , nevertheless, but I am willing to accept the decision of the board and perhaps give him a little longer, but he has a bloody poor record for the time he has been with us.. Once again we will accept that as we do and press on regardless. He does not enthuse me one little bit and always states the obvious in all his press conferences and interviews.I admit I don't see what goes on behind the scenes or on the training track as I do not live in Victoria, but with all due respect to the man I wouldn't try and run through a brick wall for him when I hear him speak.there are a few coaches I hear that would get the adrenalin flowing. Unfortunately they do not coach Melbourne, but one or two I hope may be considered in the near future.. Maybe next year.. Sorry boys it's how I feel. By the way I am not looking for attention by posting what I do on these forums. I assure you I get plenty of attention writing columns and articles for an entirely different sport. I am merely a very passionate "Demon" I am also very used to the internet and sarcasm, possibly not too often from Melbourne supporters.. Happy Easter.

Love the passion. Go Dees

[Sir Why You Little 37,044]

OK Boys.. I get the message. Maybe I am as frustrated as most of our long term supporters are. It is getting a little harder each year to listen to our club officials and coaching staff and the fancy TV ads featuring Ronald Dale Barassi trying hard to convince us to get on the Demon success wagon or let the Demon out etc. and to then watch us fail year after year. I love the Dees and I am sick of the ridicule and crap I have copped from supporters of other clubs over the last decade and many years before our 2000 Grand Final appearance. I haven't mentioned Bailey at all ?? I am not a great fan of his , nevertheless, but I am willing to accept the decision of the board and perhaps give him a little longer, but he has a bloody poor record for the time he has been with us.. Once again we will accept that as we do and press on regardless. He does not enthuse me one little bit and always states the obvious in all his press conferences and interviews.I admit I don't see what goes on behind the scenes or on the training track as I do not live in Victoria, but with all due respect to the man I wouldn't try and run through a brick wall for him when I hear him speak.there are a few coaches I hear that would get the adrenalin flowing. Unfortunately they do not coach Melbourne, but one or two I hope may be considered in the near future.. Maybe next year.. Sorry boys it's how I feel. By the way I am not looking for attention by posting what I do on these forums. I assure you I get plenty of attention writing columns and articles for an entirely different sport. I am merely a very passionate "Demon" I am also very used to the internet and sarcasm, possibly not too often from Melbourne supporters.. Happy Easter.

We all share the same passion pig, i have been going to the MCG since 1971 to watch the Demons, and this time i want them to get it right. B)

[_becks_ 35]

If this current form continues, I'd imagine that by round 12, Stynes and Schwab will be scratching their heads...

I have been following the dees since i was born. 30 years later and still no premiership, it's tough. I can still remember 1987...I cried that day when Stynes ran over the mark (with quite a few other dee supporters!), it was a great game and an incredible year. However, thats the past and i would like to see us conquer! As mentioned above, if this laconic nature which we are currently playing in, continues for another eight or so rounds, I think Bails will be firmly under the pump. I dont think the current administration will accept mediocrity.

[bing181 9,240]

If it doesn't improve, if the past 4 weeks is the best we're gonna do this year, we'll struggle to get anywhere near last year's standard.

Which part of last year would that be? The thrashing by Hawthorn? The loss to the wooden spooners (WC) ... at home. The two losses to North? The losses of the last 3 games in a row when he had a chance at the 8?

Short memories.

[Red Sox 2]

Which part of last year would that be? The thrashing by Hawthorn? The loss to the wooden spooners (WC) ... at home. The two losses to North? The losses of the last 3 games in a row when he had a chance at the 8?

Short memories.

No.

The win over Brisbane when they were going ok but more importantly our pressure across the ground was obvious. As it was in the two games against Collingwood. As it was against Essendon (until the last 15 minutes). As it was in the endeavour against the Dogs on that wet Friday night. As it was against Sydney when we demolished them.

[binman 42,984]

Take a breath.

Capital letters and exclamation marks must surely stand for something. (ref: mfcss)

If you read the post of mine you replied to slowly and carefully enough, it should sink in. And daisycutter this is not mfcfs if you're reading this.

Finally, finals is not the be all and end all this year. It's not about wins and losses as such. If we do make the 8, all well and good, but it's the development and games of continuity of our young hopefuls that is more important.

I could go on, but I've been here before so many times...reasoning. I'll finish by saying I don't accept past failures - as you put. I'm as passionate as any, I understand where our list has come from in the past 3-4 years and I'm looking forward to the club building something great that will give our best possible chance of winning a fracking flag. That's what I want, not some miracle finals berth this year that won't result in winning the flag this year.

Thanks HT for introducing some sanity to this thread. What is going on, why the panic? Improvement is rarely linear (Essendon not making the 8 last year for example, but pushing again this year - this is not all to do with Saint Hird, their improvement has been 2-3 years in the making). The club has been crystal clear we are building a foundation and the main game is 2 years away. My feeling pre season was that we wouldn't make the 8 but would be close and nothing that has occured thus far has changed that feeling.

It was a calculated gamble axing McDonald (and Yze, Robertson, Wheatley et al in previous years) and not meeting Cam Bruce’s terms. Of course in the short term this was going to hurt but it was cold, hard business and based on future pay off. As someone noted Gysbersts and Tapscott may not be in the side if not for those hardnosed calls.

I suspect the club has gone very hard in the pre season on building the core strength of our players - see the increased bulk of Bate, Martin, Newton, Morton - at the expense of aerobic capacity. Bailey has made the point on numerous occasions how important core strength is and how vital it is to winning stoppages (and how key that is). I'm not a stats man but i reckon our contested possession stats would be pretty good this year. I reckon we will improve our aerobic stuff as the year rolls on and be better able to run quarters and games out.

As for the game plan it seems to me that we are, in fact changing our style this year. Whilst still playing a spread and carry style we are clearly going 'round the boundary more and less through the corridor. He has also been playing Jamar deep more often to encourage less shallow inside 50 kicks and provide a contest near our goal. I also reckon the sub rule aligns well with our style as games seem to be breaking open more late in quarters (as is the intention of this rule change).

Bailey has also emphasised on several occasions the need for our forwards to create more pressure and i think Wonna’s relatively early call up (given his very interrupted pre season) is evidence of his focus on this. I would have thought that our current lack of pizzazz might be a direct result of trying to implement a rejigged game plan, just as we struggled early in Bailey's tenure with the Geelong style run and carry.

The Collingwood forward press? The football media (and seemingly many fans) have very short memories (and attention spans for that matter). This is just the current orthodoxy which will be replaced by something else soon enough (ie by the side other than Collingwood who next wins a flag). Half way through last season Geelong were the favourites to win the flag and at the start of the season there was criticism of the Malthouse predilection for going around the boundary line. It also a style that is 100% reliant on having a side with few injuries, particularly to key runners. Hawthorn, the Saints and Collingwood have had sustained success with it only when they have had an almost full list for the whole season. Let’s see how Essendon goes now they have lost 2 key runners.

I find it interesting that many of naysayers and doom merchants stress how long they have followed the club and how we should be delivering now. Surely the experience of watching footy over a long period teaches that only the clubs that plan well over the long term succeed. This has been the failing of Melbourne in the 30 odd years I have passionately followed the redlegs. In that time our governance has generally been an absolute shambles. This is why we haven’t been successful, not some half baked idea our fans tolerate mediocrity or our players are soft. Come on give me a break. We have had our fair share of warriors and talent but that is not enough.

Our current governance structure seems to be sound and i am confident they will make the right calls, including who should coach the team. I actually think we will push for the 8 (though as i noted not neccesarily make it) and finish the year well. I also reckon we will continue the trend of last year and play well against the top 4 teams.

Deep breathes all round and lets reassess where we at the end of the season.

Edited April 21, 2011 by binman

[Striker475 696]

Our current governance structure seems to be sound and i am confident they will make the right calls, including who should coach the team. I actually think we will push for the 8 and finish the year well. I also reckon we will continue the trend of last year and play well against the top 4 teams.

Deep breathes all round and lets reassess where we at the end of the season.

More I have thought about it more this is relevant.

Following our bye in Rd16 we play Port twice, Geelong, Hawthorn, Carlton, Wet Toast, Richmond and Fold Coast. We should win four and possibly even five of those eight. Which means we need seven wins from the rest of the season. Two of which we already have. Thus

Norf

Adelaide

Richmond

make ten. Throw in Saint KFC, Wet Toast (again), Carlton, QBD (which I view as winnable after last year's tussles) and Essendon and we could be looking at thirteen wins.

Of course, it could all go belly up and we finish 13th. But the reality is it really can go either way right now and I'm hoping and barracking for the former.

[45HG 1,539]

No.

The win over Brisbane when they were going ok but more importantly our pressure across the ground was obvious. As it was in the two games against Collingwood. As it was against Essendon (until the last 15 minutes). As it was in the endeavour against the Dogs on that wet Friday night. As it was against Sydney when we demolished them.

So we're all in agreement.

A young team whose best players are all under 23, who's mid range players aren't really stepping up and one that contains a handful of 100+ gamers will have ups and downs.

[Crompton's the man 659]

Awesome Binman

So incredibly sensible that I automatically want to argue.

Will advise on what basis in due course .......

[rpfc 28,440]

So we're all in agreement.

A young team whose best players are all under 23, who's mid range players aren't really stepping up and one that contains a handful of 100+ gamers will have ups and downs.

I think this is why so many are disillusioned - they expect the Sydney outing every second week (or every week).

We were awful at times last year (perhaps someone should bump the thread after the WCE game, frack, someone should!) and we aren't in a position to demand that type of performance, application is a different matter, every week.

And for those that say it is application that they are talking about - it has only been down for 4 quarters this year. Performance is another issue, but that illustrates improvement - we are playing poorly but didn't lose the 'WCE of 2010' equivalent against the Lions. We didn't lose the 'WB of 2010' equivalent game against the Swans, we drew and nearly pinched it (and smashed them in the contested possessions).

The less said about the Hawks qtr the better...

[rpfc 28,440]

OK Boys.. I get the message. Maybe I am as frustrated as most of our long term supporters are. It is getting a little harder each year to listen to our club officials and coaching staff and the fancy TV ads featuring Ronald Dale Barassi trying hard to convince us to get on the Demon success wagon or let the Demon out etc. and to then watch us fail year after year. I love the Dees and I am sick of the ridicule and crap I have copped from supporters of other clubs over the last decade and many years before our 2000 Grand Final appearance. I haven't mentioned Bailey at all ?? I am not a great fan of his , nevertheless, but I am willing to accept the decision of the board and perhaps give him a little longer, but he has a bloody poor record for the time he has been with us.. Once again we will accept that as we do and press on regardless. He does not enthuse me one little bit and always states the obvious in all his press conferences and interviews.I admit I don't see what goes on behind the scenes or on the training track as I do not live in Victoria, but with all due respect to the man I wouldn't try and run through a brick wall for him when I hear him speak.there are a few coaches I hear that would get the adrenalin flowing. Unfortunately they do not coach Melbourne, but one or two I hope may be considered in the near future.. Maybe next year.. Sorry boys it's how I feel. By the way I am not looking for attention by posting what I do on these forums. I assure you I get plenty of attention writing columns and articles for an entirely different sport. I am merely a very passionate "Demon" I am also very used to the internet and sarcasm, possibly not too often from Melbourne supporters.. Happy Easter.

I'm glad you'll stick around.

One thing - surely we cannot, after pleading for, and applauding, the bottoming out that got us the talent we are now expecting so much of, turn around and say that Bailey W/L record is a noose around his neck...

2009 Richmond, I know what I was hoping for when McMahon had the kick heard around the Land...

I'm not reading anything into it, and I take every season as it comes, it's too early to tell whether Bailey will be re-signed.

Miles to go before we sleep.

[old55 23,593]

Why's that? You're not that old, old (I'm assuming 55 is your birth year). Does that also mean if we snatch a flag or several during that 2013-2018 window, it/they will be the last you'll ever see?

If Gold Coast's dynasty period is 2018 on then the chances are it'd be over by ~2021. The chances are also that you'll live beyond the age of 65.

It's 50 years since we've won a flag - it's not an accident and it has sapped our supporter base and we doomed to be a poorer club.

There'll be more teams so less probability - and other teams the AFL is keen to advantage.

The gap between rich and poor clubs will continue widen despite the salary cap - in football department spending and in player retention and acquisition - look at Judd and the fact that no-one will leave Collingwood.

Free Agency will hurt poor clubs - it'll be like GWS and GC uncontracted players every year and our current young guns will come into the frame in 2017.

We've done the mother of all bottom-outs at the right time - other contenders on the rise have been unable to add young talent because of the GC and GWS draft concessions - we're going to enter an unprecendented and unrepeatable window - we need to take our chances and they may be shorter than they would otherwise have been because of the GC juggernaut. Sure they'll lose players to other clubs but they'll have a core of stars that's incomparable - if you believe our model of list building can deliver fruit then you cannot deny their ascendency - they've got more and better and more concentrated.

This is it Nasher - we've got one sting at it - we need to make sure we've got the right staff in place.

[Sir Why You Little 37,044]

It's 50 years since we've won a flag - it's not an accident and it has sapped our supporter base and we doomed to be a poorer club.

There'll be more teams so less probability - and other teams the AFL is keen to advantage.

The gap between rich and poor clubs will continue widen despite the salary cap - in football department spending and in player retention and acquisition - look at Judd and the fact that no-one will leave Collingwood.

Free Agency will hurt poor clubs - it'll be like GWS and GC uncontracted players every year and our current young guns will come into the frame in 2017.

We've done the mother of all bottom-outs at the right time - other contenders on the rise have been unable to add young talent because of the GC and GWS draft concessions - we're going to enter an unprecendented and unrepeatable window - we need to take our chances and they may be shorter than they would otherwise have been because of the GC juggernaut. Sure they'll lose players to other clubs but they'll have a core of stars that's incomparable - if you believe our model of list building can deliver fruit then you cannot deny their ascendency - they've got more and better and more concentrated.

This is it Nasher - we've got one sting at it - we need to make sure we've got the right staff in place.

You forget the city of Casey....an incredible amount of potential Demon supporters out there, as long as the club keeps improving our supporter base will grow...all is not lost '55