Ball requests meeting with Dees

[H_T 3,043]

No. He is out of contract 1 November. He is a free agent. St Kilda have no cooling off period. After Nov 1, St Kilda have no more rights on him than any other Club.

RR, whilst uncontracted, is he effectively off St.Kilda's list Nov 1 ? So if St.Kilda still wanted him they would have to draft him in the ND....?

[beelzebub 23,313]

RR, whilst uncontracted, is he effectively off St.Kilda's list Nov 1 ? So if St.Kilda still wanted him they would have to draft him in the ND....?

If another contract isnt signed on or before hand..then yes. They have to draft him just like the rest of us. Then they would have to use their earliest pick if they thought they were serious @ 32.

Im not sure how it would work in AFL but they could sign a heads of agreement in lieu of an actual contract possibly with provision to sign one at some specified date. That might get around it. but Im not at all sure if the AFL recognises such things with regards cut off dates etc

edit..just saw Old's post...thats seems to make more sense. But would have thought no contract is just that.. On a lsit or not.. Stkilda are to get nothing for him, so Im not sure what claim they can still have.

Old s?? ferris ??

Edited October 27, 2009 by belzebub59

[H_T 3,043]

edit..just saw Old's post...thats seems to make more sense. But would have thought no contract is just that.. On a lsit or not.. Stkilda are to get nothing for him, so Im not sure what claim they can still have.

just saw Old's post too.

[H_T 3,043]

That's not strictly correct. He is still a listed St.Kilda player and they don't have to use a pick to have him continue to play for them if they re-contract him.

Until such time, he nominates himself for the Pre season Draft ? Or ND...

[jacey 333]

That's not strictly correct. He is still a listed St.Kilda player and they don't have to use a pick to have him continue to play for them if they re-contract him.

So Stkilda can still re-sign him November? That doesn't make much sense.

Contract expires 31 October so St kilda holds no rights to him Nov 1. You can't re-sign a player you don't have.

Shouldn't Ball be released into a FA pool in Nov 1 like all uncontracted players and St Kilda will have to use a pick in the ND or PSD to get him back.

[old55 23,394]

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?showtopic=16865

For the ND:

Tue, Nov 10, 2pm – Out of contract listed AFL primary list players draft nomination deadline

For the PSD:

Tue, Dec 1, 2pm – Out of contract AFL primary list player draft nomination deadline, NSW scholarship-listed players and international scholarship-listed players inclusion on rookie list deadline

Edited October 27, 2009 by old55

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Thanks Old. They still have him on their list atm and they dont have to use a draft pick on him. If he nominates for the ND, he would then have to come off the Saints list by 10 November wouldn't he? If he elects to go into the PSD, then he would also have to be removed from the date of the election to do so?

[1858 285]

If Ball hypothetically had no intention of entering any draft and wished to be retained by the Saints then is it correct to assume that the cut off for him to be re-contracted is Dec1 since Dec2 is the date of LL3?

Edited October 27, 2009 by 1858

[flog 20]

No. He is out of contract 1 November. He is a free agent. St Kilda have no cooling off period. After Nov 1, St Kilda have no more rights on him than any other Club.

It pays to do a bit of research befor you open your mouth

[Spirit of the Demon 249]

Had lunch today with two Saints' fans who claim to have no interest in their club retaining Ball who they regard as having the body of a 30 year old.

[1858 285]

It pays to do a bit of research befor you open your mouth

If my understanding is correct then RR pretty much answered the question correctly. His explanation did not encapsulate every aspect but this was the question:

"OK .. so, even though his contract expires at the end of Oct, it is not until the end of Nov that St Kilda have no hold over him anymore."

RR said that this was not the case. Other posters stated that Ball would still be on the Saints list (even out of contract) but the thing to remember is that Ball can quite freely delist himself at any time after October 31 and hence the Saints have no hold over him what so ever. From that POV RR was correct.

Again, I must stipulate that along as I understand everything correctly.

[Sir Why You Little 36,971]

Had lunch today with two Saints' fans who claim to have no interest in their club retaining Ball who they regard as having the body of a 30 year old.

Are they Doctors or Medical specialists?? If not, What the F would they know???

Bet they were Screaming for him 4 weeks ago....Short Memories.

[Guest straussski]

Sniffle MORTON, AUSSIE, MARIC, BENNELL sniffle

Bump STRAUSS Bump

[Cards13 9,117]

Had lunch today with two Saints' fans who claim to have no interest in their club retaining Ball who they regard as having the body of a 30 year old.

People keep saying his body/groins are rubbish.. I think Melb are in a good position to offer him something out of left field that other clubs can't IF his body is as soe as non-informed fans suggest.

TIME.... time to get his body as right as it can if it is not right. We don't need him out there winning us games next year give him time to heal before we push him out there and it could be a massive pick up for us.

[DemonDan... 77]

The request from the Ball camp was that Melbourne lay off until Ball is back in circulation.

Ball's back next week - Ball will meet Melbourne next week.

That's not the same as Ball pro-actively asking to meet Melbourne.

Glad someone mentioned this.

There's not a chance in hell Luke Ball wants to come to the Dees. I think he'd rather be unhappy at the Saints and I think Ross Lyon and Co realise this too, hence the stand-off. If CC and Co can persuade him, were not that bad as publically perceived, he might tell Lyon to stick it..(another bonus 4 him )

He's not quite a 'star' but if he does end up with us, he'll drag a good opponent away from Scully or Trenny, when we 1st run them thru the midfield, which would be handy.

Negetively speaking, people saying 'he has the body of a 30 y.o.' may be an understatement.

Remember all the groin problems and all vision of him unable to sit or stand properly a few years back and the threat of permanent head trauma due to some heavy knocks in a short period of time.

IF we got a further 5 years out of him, in a J-Mac style role.. that would be the BCS.

Which would be great from a 1st round PSD pick / reject and good-timing as J-Mac (you'd think) will only be around for 2010.

[Ryan Dee 140]

You didn't see Wona play through the middle last pre-season? Or you did and didn't rate him?

Maric has the smarts and agility to bit-part it until he gets a bigger tank.

Bennell would struggle initally, imo, but would be a much better player for the experience.

Options are there depending on the makeup of the opposition.

You don't have to be Judd or play middle for 120 minutes to be a midfield option.

It is not about what I think or who I rate, it's just a fact that those 3 are not options. Lets forget about where they can play in the future or if they have played there for one or two games. We all know these guys will not be rotated through the midfield. Maric needs to get games under his belt first which will be in the forward line, same goes for Wonna. Bennell would struggle to get a go and if he does it might only be on rare occasions as a one off. They are not options every week for the midfield.

[Trisul 664]

It is not about what I think or who I rate, it's just a fact that those 3 are not options.

OK then. I've been fact(ed?). Wona, etc, will not play midfield.

Ed: Kind of funny in light of your sig MM, 'A fact in itself is nothing. It is valuable only for the idea attached to it, or for the proof which it furnishes.'

Edited October 27, 2009 by Trident

[#MYHEARTBEATSTRUE 27]

How much do you think Ball is worth? 450k per year?

Just a straight swap for brock in my eyes,

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

It is not about what I think or who I rate, it's just a fact that those 3 are not options. Lets forget about where they can play in the future or if they have played there for one or two games. We all know these guys will not be rotated through the midfield. Maric needs to get games under his belt first which will be in the forward line, same goes for Wonna. Bennell would struggle to get a go and if he does it might only be on rare occasions as a one off. They are not options every week for the midfield.

Very silly indeed....

Is it a fact that Morton will become a star player too?

[Disco Demons 92]

How much do you think Ball is worth? 450k per year?

Just a straight swap for brock in my eyes,

i don't think it's important what he's going to cost the club a year,,,but rather we can get him for nothing via the PSD. if he of course chooses.

I think of it this way...we get luke ball and pick 11 for trading brock mclean....so i think that's a great deal for us.

brock would probably be worth 400k,,,ball 500k...he's probably going to want 4yrs on 550k...at a bad guess.

[rpfc 28,262]

If another contract isnt signed on or before hand..then yes. They have to draft him just like the rest of us. Then they would have to use their earliest pick if they thought they were serious @ 32.

Im not sure how it would work in AFL but they could sign a heads of agreement in lieu of an actual contract possibly with provision to sign one at some specified date. That might get around it. but Im not at all sure if the AFL recognises such things with regards cut off dates etc

edit..just saw Old's post...thats seems to make more sense. But would have thought no contract is just that.. On a lsit or not.. Stkilda are to get nothing for him, so Im not sure what claim they can still have.

Old s?? ferris ??

This is where we come back to an AFL conract being different from a 'real world' contract.

Restraint of trade?

Yeah, but the alternative has its own problems.

[demoniac 1,330]

Spoke to someone who should know who said that Ball was over OP and should be finally able to get in a full pre season and recover some of the endurance and speed that he once had. Eased my mind a tad if not completely!

[Crystal Dees 372]

We need to clear off one more IMO to open up Pick 34 and PSD1, and it's down to McNamara, Cheney and Bartram; the only remaining uncontracted players. Yes, I know, everyone thinks it should be Bartram, but I've always gotten the impression that the brains trust like him -- presumably for his intangibles (tank, work ethic, courage etc). Despite it being so popular in opinion, I'll be surprised if they delist Bartram.

Therefore in my mind it's down to Cheney and McNamara, and there's a great list of pros and cons to both. In that context, it's not that surprising his name keeps popping up.

Melbourne would be mad to de-list Cheney. Very classy, young, underated footballer and in our best 18 in 2010 - even with the new draft picks. McNamara deserves more time. If one of these 3 goes it has to be Bartram. A good, loyal servant of the club and worthy of his games, but the new Melbourne will have higher standards. Only problem I see is it means we will have only the one recognised tagger (Lynden Dunn) unless we convert one of the more recognised midfieders, which is not a bad idea.

......and by the way other posters, Melbourne will be playing finals in 2011 and challenging for the Premiership in 2012. Very rarely do sites incrementally improve by 2-3 spots each year until they reach the top. Life and AFL is not like that.

[Ryan Dee 140]

OK then. I've been fact(ed?). Wona, etc, will not play midfield.

Ed: Kind of funny in light of your sig MM, 'A fact in itself is nothing. It is valuable only for the idea attached to it, or for the proof which it furnishes.'

Very silly indeed....

Is it a fact that Morton will become a star player too?

So if someone said to you, who are Melbourne's midfield players/options? You would add in Maric, Wonna and Bennell to the list?

I would be embarrased to, no offence to those players as Maric one of my favorites but come on?

Most players these days have the ability to play in many positions but it does not make them a week to week option.

Midfield options before Maric, Wonna and Bennell:

Blease

Bruce

Davey

Dunn

Green

Grimes

Jones

Macca

Moloney

Morton

Petterd

Sylvia

Ball *

Trengove*

Scully*

There is 15 midfield options before those 3, Easily.

Wonna has played in the midfield once (pre-season game). Maric...none and Bennell has spent a small amount of time on the wing.

There is a fact, these facts tell you these players are not midfield options. I thought you could work it out but maybe I need to make it a bit clear next time.

Ohh and yes I could present you with fact's on why Morton will be a star but I still have an essay to finish. Apologies, I am a little up tight with my study atm.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Mr Morton

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,777]

Melbourne would be mad to de-list Cheney. Very classy, young, underated footballer and in our best 18 in 2010 - even with the new draft picks.

Classy is a not a word I would associate with Cheney. He has very poor kicking skills. How many direct turnovers did he cause last year?

He has great endeavour and is a good mark for his size, but he is not classy.