Declare Your Allegience

[Jerry Lundergard 390]

Seeing as the boards are pretty slow during the break, i wanted to start a thread i had been thinking about for a while. I thought it might be a good idea for people to put in writing which players they love and can't seem to write a bad thing about, even when they have a shocker, you will defend them. And conversely, the ones who you struggle to give any credit to even if they play a blinder(YM banging on about Cam Bruce ring a bell).

Players I Defend.

Brock McLean - I think he gets a bit of a bad wrap at times on these boards, and the weekend was perfect evidence to suggest why he gets the No.1 tag each week, because he can be a match winner when not closely checked. AFL coaches don't spend every waking hour setting up stratedgies to beat opposing teams, and then go out and send their best tagger on a dud player.

Lynden Dunn - Dunn has been one of my favourite young players over the past couple of seasons, and though he has been dissappointing for varying reasons so fgar this year, i am still hoping he can become a cornerstone of a future premiership team fo us.

Paul Johnson - There a many who have jumped on the PJ bandwagon this year, but he was a much maligned player on these boards since his arrival here a few seasons ago. I personally have always thought he may become an important player for us. His effort can almost never be questioned, and it is well known that the bigger players generally take a little longer to develop than the smaller ones.

Players I Don't Defend

Colin Sylvia - I am not sure whether i mark him harder because of his high draft pick, but i have struggled to see(until the last couple of games, but am still yet convinced) any qualities in Col that make me think he will bee anything but an average AFL player. Still don't know whether i have forgiven him for taking out Ryan Ferguson in an uncalled for marking attempt on the wing in his 2nd season either.

Jeff White - I understand he has been a great servant for the MFC over the years, but i have never really rated his ruckwork. He never actually seems to have a plan about where he going to tap the ball, he just runs up and tries to get a hand on it. Frustrates the hell out of me. His couage has also been called into question a couple of times.

[Gorgoroth 12,351]

Players I defend

McLean as what you said, and the fact he is 21 and most expect the world from him and are disappointed when he does not get 35 touches a week.

Sometimes the whole backline as the pressure up field is appalling at times.

Players I don't

Bruce, his disposal has gone south in a big way and at his age and pay cheque he should be better.

[Diablo 1]

Will go into bat for:

Brock. Super attitude for the most part. Some dumb things last off season but he works his arse off on the training track and most of the time in games. Might be slow but hes a natural footballer and a leader.

Jonesy. Much the same as Brock. Probably the hardest trainer at the club. Apparently he loves his Playstation 3, which is a shame, since I'm an Xbox man myself, but video game allegiances aside, he's a gun.

Chopper. Don't like him as a bloke, necessarily, but he cops it totally unjustly from all quarters. The fact is, when we are getting pumped in the middle, the backline is mitigated completely.

Won't wear one for:

Yze. He used to be my favourite player, but I cannot stand it when old players cling on long after their time has passed, giving nothing to the club but cheap pre-season headlines.

Sylvia. The complete opposite of Brock and Jones in terms of attitude. Was made to play footy and he knows it. Pity talent can only get you so far.

[Real Demon 232]

I've got no one I'll defend religiously, but I will defend a player if I think they have had something written about them that I think is crap.

If I have a soft spot for anyone, it's probably Sylvia at the minute............he has the talent, but I think injuries and personal probs have disrupted his development, but I can see him becoming a key player for us going forward.

[Dee man 299]

Players I defend:

Moloney - sometimes his foot skills let him down (Q1 vs Freo) but I nonetheless love the way he plays. He goes through the corridor, doesn't chip it around backwards or anything. He plays simple, direct footy. And he's a fantastic kick.

Wheatley - virtually the same. Just wish they played him up at HF more often

PJ - love his attitude. And he is a very good ruckman. And he's an excellent mark.

Newton - cult hero. Need him back in the team.

CJ - love the way he plays and reckon he has been unlucky with opportunities over the years. Just wish DB can find the right role for him.

Players I don't (yet):

Buckley - love the way he plays but he turns the ball over everytime he gets it. COuld be a superstar but atm I don't want him in the team until he gets his kicking sorted out.

Jamar - as good as he was on the weekend, I won't forgive him for all those completely uselss games he's produced over the years.

Robbo - STOP JUMPING ON PEOPLE'S HEADS (unless you actually do mark it, of course)

[Adzman 2,085]

Will Defend on any given sunday:

Brad Green- Like him or hate him, he is a Fav son and has given plenty on and off the field to this footy club.

Nathan Carroll- Not the best backman in the comp by any means, but this bloke gives his best every week, is also the only backman I have ever seen who will continue to mouth off at forwards when he has 5 goals kicked on him. Carroll doesnt give up, and always is into the opposition forwards. You cannot buy that kind of dedication/insanity!

Nathan Jones- Future of the club. Not the best up and coming player, but one of the hardest working, no B.S players going around. I like that kind of attitude on the footy field.

James McDonald- this guy is far from an elite footballer, yet has been in our top 5 players for the past 5 seasons. Consistent, hard working and tackles more than any player to ever where the red and blue jumper.

PLayers who I will no longer defend

Jeff White- Still think he is a top ruckman at afl level, just does too many stupid things for a player of his calibre and exp. Any bashing that comes to him these days is usually his own doing

.

Mark Jamar- some games gives us hope, only to follow it up with a stinker. Hard to defend a player that is up one week, then down the next.

[Maybe next year 167]

Players I would defend

Cameron Bruce - Always tries his hard out and is usually given the toughest roles. He probably runs more than any player and at least tries to give an option. Occassional disposal errors but has football smarts.

Brad Green - As with Cameron Bruce, always gives his best. Often regarded as soft but you can can't on him to run with the flight of a ball or stand beneath a pack. He is one of the most courageous players at the club and should be in the leadership group. Oh - and I forgot to say he is the most reliable kick at goal for the club.

Paul Wheatley - Often maligned I value him completely. Hi slong accurate disposals is a shining light for this club that often stand out like a beacon of light in a team that goes for short options.

Players I do not value

Yze - he was once a great player off the club but unfortunately he has gone on too long. His disposal has deteriorated greatly and unfortunately has become lazy.

Sylvia - I am beginning to lose patience with him. Constantly is injured and has underperformed when on the field. On saying that I had very high expectations of Col. I have a feeling he may change clubs and becomea great player at that club. I hope that is not the case and I hope that I will eat my words down the track.

[Hannabal 4]

I'll call it as I see it.

[Demon Jim 145]

I'll call it as I see it.

Jeff White - can't make a quick decision, stops and props every time he get the ball

[Johnny Karate 559]

Like everybody I have my favourite players but I've never really bought into the whole defending or berating of players.

If one of the players I like f's up I'm just as frustrated. I do tend to cut younger players slack though.

A lot of the personal stuff written on these boards is very disappointing at times.

[Jaded No More 58,799]

Mine I think are pretty obvious.

Will defend:

Brock- I just love everything he embodies (on the field at least )

Rivers- Not that he ever needs defending

Bell- Sort of adopted him early on. I like his attitude and the fact that he fought back from a long list of injuries to star last year.

Miller- Not a superstar, but a good strong leader who works incredibly hard and is totally selfless.

Robbo- Find it very difficult not to defend him, even though he's been pretty poor this season. Have a bond with him that can't be broken... a champion human being.

Will not defend:

Yze- His on-field application shits me. Lots of talent, zero accountability for the rest of the team.

Bruce- I'm not a hater but I also don't overrate him like many do. Is a hard worker with a good footy brain but his skills are simply ordinary. Also not a leader.

Sylvia- Don't buy into the whole 'number 3 draft pick'. He has talents sure, but his desire seems questionable to me. Does some selfish, silly things both on and off the field.

From outside the club, I am a big Jonathan Brown and Matthew Richardson defender. I cop a lot of [censored] for my adoration of Richo. I mostly just feel sorry for him.

[paddo 0]

These players I think Demonlanders underrate:

Mark Jamar: People are too harsh on the big fella who gives his all. I've watched him closely and he actually has a very pure ruckman's technique. He has rucked better than White since he has been back in the team, and Bailey showed his faith in him during the last quarter on Sunday.

Brad Miller: I have ALWAYS been a Miller fan. The amount of [censored] that has been pasted on him in these forums is unbelievable. His is tough, aggressive, courageous, vocal - he represents everything that this footy club lacks.

Brad Green: He has been outstanding over the past 12 months. He has been effective as a midfielder and a small forward and his leadership qualities cannot be denied. He has added a very important element to his game: courage.

These players I think Demonlanders overrate:

This is much tougher but I have nominated one:

Michael Newton: I have to admit I was going crazy about him late last year and he was one of the main reasons I was looking forward to this season. But he has been disappointing and has not even been close to senior selection since Round 1. It is obvious that he is too slow, and it seems as if he has some attitude problems. That said, I really hope he works his butt off and can get back into the team because he has some ability.

Thanks Jerry L - a very good topic. It got me thinking!!

[mikeod 21]

Colin Sylvia has been for a long time, for no apparent reason, my favourite player. I think I'm just praying for the day he lets loose.

Aaron Davey is another that will rarely get a bad wrap from me, just because I've seen what he can do and know he can pull it out.

David Neitz is someone I hate seeing bagged, even though I know his time is ending

Paul Wheatley is underrated.

[Doggo 32]

Players i defend (from criticism and the like):

Paul Johnson: as stated in another post, i saw PJ play juniors (we're the same age), and i picked him then as a player who could become very good at AFL level, and have stuck by him since. Liked what i saw of him in a few games at Sandy in '05, and thought '06 would have been his year if not for injuries. Last year he showed signs of improvement, but was dropped after just reasonable form from limited ground time, but got back in before the end of the year and finished well in the last few. Unfortunately, another injury has sidelined him after career-best form in the first 3 rounds this year. If we had not won, i'd think PJ would definitely be an automatic inclusion, and i still think he should be despite Jamar's form. His upside for the future is far greater than that of Jamar's, and he needs time in the seniors if 100% fit.

Brent Moloney: another who has been cruelled by injuries, and is lacking confidence at the moment due in part to a difference between the qualities he brings into the side, and the required type of player needed for our 'intended' new gameplan (though the 2nd half against Freo saw a return to the direct kicking style of 2006 in many ways). I watched the replay last night and wasn't aware of the extent of the spray he recieved from Bailey at qtr-time (i wasnt paying attention to the huddle at the ground, probably getting more drinks preparing for another shellacking at that stage ). The close up camera shots of Bailey singling out Beamer and Nathan Carroll were extremely intense (DB was just about to rip his head off!). It was unlike anything we've ever seen from Daniher, and to Beamer's credit (as well as Dean's for his spray), he lifted and grew in confidence, after what can only be described as an awful first quarter. His hardness around the stoppages, putting the big body in and blocking for his fellow midfielders, and his long direct kicking were definitely put into better use in the second half. I rate Moloney, and i think he needs a few games under his belt before he really hits his straps again. We forget just how much footy the guy has missed, and how effective he was prior to his long setback. After playing a few more consecutive games and hitting full fitness, his confidence will return and with that, his skills will improve from the low level he (and almost everyone in the team) has shown thus far in '08. I just hope he can maintain good form and keep himself in the side.

James Frawley: I've read some pretty negative stuff about young Chip in the past and have always thought it unwarranted. The kid is 19, and played 8 games in his debut season for the 14th team in the league. He was never going to dominate against anyone given the circumstances, but gee, in a few years these lessons learned now will come in handy, and he'll be a star. Some people just have extreme expectations of what his influence on the game now could be. He'll come good, but needs time at senior level to grow into his role.

Other players among my favourites whom i'll be somewhat generous to in sparing my criticism, include:

Robbo (though this year after rnd 1 i got so [censored] off at his performance, i took the 24 off my Melbourne jumper completely), Bartram & Bell (though these 2 have also gotten on my nerves somewhat this year with their poor form), Rivers (who doesnt love Rivers?), Buckley and Petterd (i like these two youngsters). And can't forget AUSSIE!

I find myself defending Aaron Davey a lot too to other supporters. McLean cops an unfair wrap considering he's only 22 and is clearly our best midfielder.

Jones will be part of my faves group soon, but needs to improve his disposal first.

Players I don't defend:

Mark Jamar: Has had a million chances to show us something, and he has only very rarely delivered. One of the luckiest players on any list in the AFL, i hope he can extract the best out of himself and have a good career, but i highly doubt it.

Jeff White: Not physical enough, and nowhere near damaging enough with his possesions. Seems to always go short, sideways or backwards. Does run hard, but just not particularly penetrating as a player anymore. Have enjoyed his service to the club, but is all downhill from here.

Lynden Dunn: I like the kid and think he shows infinite potential, but has delivered very little in his career thus far. A bit small for KP, lacking a bit of mobility to be a genuine midfielder. As a first round pick, expectations of him are high, but he needs to show more when he is in the side to cement his spot. Needs to find a niche. Could be at the crossroads at the end of this season if he doesnt break into the team and stay in.

Col Sylvia: Much like Dunny, promises so much but as yet has delivered so little. I have high hopes for Col, but like many other Demon supporters, am losing patience in the kid. Time to start delivering soon, or he could be just another player heaped onto the "Talented kid, but didnt have the commitment" pile.

Cameron Bruce: I dont consider myself a Bruce basher, i actually rate Cam and think while he is on our list, he is one of our most important players, though i understand i could get flamed for saying this. But... i just dont understand how his kicking has deteriorated so much since earlier in his career? Maybe i just notice more because i'm always looking for it now, but he shanks and wobbles more kicks than almost any other first-pick midfielder in the league, and has done since probably 2005. My issue with Bruce is that as a player of his experience, his skill level should be far more consistent than it has been in recent years. I've no problems with his endeavour, and love that he able to cover as much ground as he does.

Others on the list of players i'm losing patience with include:

Carroll (though i understand he is still very important to our structure, the sooner Frawley and the kids come on, the better), CJ (just hasnt done enough), Yze (time's up), Wheatley (i like him, but needs to do better with the ball when under pressure), and 2 of my favourites, Bell and Bartram (same as Wheatley, butchering the ball under pressure coming out of defence.) I understand most of these guys are backmen however, and we're doing so badly apart from our 2nd half aginst Freo, that its hard not to look shocking in our backline (unless your name is Jared Rivers). Newton should be stamping himself in the side, but instead is languishing at Sandy.

Miller used to be part of this group, but has earned a lot of my respect back this year. Needs to consolidate now though, and go on and have a big consistent year. We need what we got from him on Sunday more often.

I guess with all things, when your up things are great, when ur down, its hard not to be critical. Our team hasnt been great, and its easy to jump on and off player bandwagons. PJ is the one player i've always backed though, mostly due to the lack of opportunity he's recieved, and that Jamar has shown himself to be incapable of consistent performances.

[Pates 9,537]

Players i defend:

Moloney, I've always liked his style and defended him when he was out injured saying that he'll come back and dominate.

McLean, Never said a bad thing about him (except when he did his silly things over the summer, but still defended him!)

Robbo, I criticise him but i defended him when people were saying his singing was impacting on his game. Plus i still think he loves the club and when he's on he can be one of the hardest forwards to match up on (i just wish he'd stop falling over!)

Jones, I love this kid and although there hasn't been much to criticise him about but when that time comes i will be there!

Players i critcise:

Miller, still refuse to eat humble pie about him despite his game on the weekend. It'll take a while before i erase the memories of the last 2 years of him however credit to him he is on his way to doing so.

CJ, really don't rate him. Simple as that.

Sylvia, I've been waiting and waiting, and i still don't know what's to come of him. Have high hopes, but i'm not going to defend him after so much time and very little to show. (Yes i know injuries have made it difficult, but enough is enough)

[Bobby McKenzie 2,194]

Players I would defend

Cameron Bruce - Always tries his hard out and is usually given the toughest roles. He probably runs more than any player and at least tries to give an option. Occassional disposal errors but has football smarts.

Brad Green - As with Cameron Bruce, always gives his best. Often regarded as soft but you can can't on him to run with the flight of a ball or stand beneath a pack. He is one of the most courageous players at the club and should be in the leadership group. Oh - and I forgot to say he is the most reliable kick at goal for the club.

Paul Wheatley - Often maligned I value him completely. Hi slong accurate disposals is a shining light for this club that often stand out like a beacon of light in a team that goes for short options.

Players I do not value

Yze - he was once a great player off the club but unfortunately he has gone on too long. His disposal has deteriorated greatly and unfortunately has become lazy.

Sylvia - I am beginning to lose patience with him. Constantly is injured and has underperformed when on the field. On saying that I had very high expectations of Col. I have a feeling he may change clubs and becomea great player at that club. I hope that is not the case and I hope that I will eat my words down the track.

I'm going to be very lazy and simply say that I AGREE with all of your thoughts. Cannot agree with those who question White's courage. He had his face rearranged didn't he? He battles so hard in the ruck week in and week out.

[Nasher 33,161]

Thanks Jerry L - a very good topic. It got me thinking!!

That's probably a better way of putting it paddo. The overrated/underrated thing makes more sense than defend/won't defend, as I will not "defend" any particular player just for the hell of it.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Defend:

Brock

White

Neitz

Won't defend:

Jamar

Bell

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I have an opinion on EVERY player. Some younger ones I don't commit to for lack of knowledge, like Cheney and Mcnamara. But other than that every player is either in my good books or bad books.

Players I always defend:

JMac: Obvious.

Neitz: Was always going to decline, it was just a question of when and how much dignity we'd show him as he bowed out. This is one area that 'landers should hang their heads in shame. We have been awful you him, and he deserves every bit of respect we can muster. More than any player on the list, and as much as any player who ever played for the club, just about.

Carroll: Why everyone marks him next to Scarlett is a mystery to me. He isn't as good as him, and he's not payed like he is. He's a good ordinary player, and I reckon if you asked he and the coach they'd admit the same thing. He's a good player, and an important player at the moment while we have so few in their footballing prime. Just because a players' not a star doesn't mean they're not important and/or hardworking.

Green: He's not as bad as the nay-sayers will claim. He has his faults, but he's a very, very good player.

Holland: You can't help but love him. I have no stats to back it up, but if you won premierships for attitude, this guy would be the next Pikey.

PJ: I could echo the sentiments of everyone on here, but instead I'll remind you of why everyone should rate him. The only reason he didn't have a great 2006 was because of a stunning bit of self-sacrifice. The Sydney game where he ran 150 metres up to the wing to collect his own ball, got drilled by the Sydney ruckman going for a ball that was likely to go out. Even if he'd won it, glory would not have been his. Got his shoulder dislocated for his efforts, and STILL got up to take the boundary throw in... Instant cult figure for those who caught it. His attitude is top-notch, works hard, and has talent in a number of areas. Was ALWAYS going to make it in my opinion.

Whelan: People calling for his head are wrong. Just plain wrong. One of maybe 3 players in the side who you pick even when only half fit.

The ones I actively go at:

Yze: Time has come.

Warnock: He's about to come off this list I reckon, but at the start of the year I didn't think he was even a C-grader.

And the biggest two:

CJ: Just can't put a foot right. 4 years in the system and he's not even dominating the VFL.

Jamar: I mark him roughly, as he won a Liston. But he should be better. MUCH better.

[Little Goffy 12,763]

Brad Green cops a lot of undeserved criticism. He runs hard to get into space to be an option, runs hard to get back into defence, lays the tackles and gets his share of contested possessions, often is the man delivering well into the forward 50, and kicks a proper swag of goals himself.

But that's not good enough for some people.

Paul Johnson I've always felt had more to him than he was showing. I've been one of many who have been stoked to see him take a step up early this year.

I guess over time I've been a little bit sympathetic to Chris Johnson, though I acknowledge that he is yet to repay. Hmm... I think I see him as the next Steven Armstrong - never make in the Red & Blue because never given a sustained run, then might just make it onto a list somewhere else and play out a moderately good career (in terms of own performance - Arma got a premiership medallion for his trouble)

Holland gets my support, though I don't expect to see him at the 'G very often any more. He's the Simon Godfrey of our KP players - never surrenders always has the effort.

And from the person above - there are people who bag Matthew Whelan? Why? What for? Being too tough? Not giving away goals? Having great disposal and decision making? Whelan is our most valuable small defender, no doubt on it.

[_becks_ 35]

Sylvia reminds of someone who would play for Collingwood, in the Medhurst/Didak mould. I fear that we will lose patience with him and he will go to one of these bigger clubs where he will get more attention. To be honest might not be sucha bad thing as he has done jack s#!t with us.

[youami 53]

Defend

Colin Garland, I've been defending him all this year and saw a few signs on the weekend that he looks pretty good.

[jacey 333]

Jamar: I mark him roughly, as he won a Liston. But he should be better. MUCH better.

I'm pretty sure PJ won the liston.

Player's who i've got a soft spot for.

Rivers, Brock, Jones, Petterd, Neitz, Grimes, Bate, Valenti.

Players who i'll tip on a whim.

Newton, White, Sylvia, and Yze.

[titan_uranus 22,720]

Players I defend:

Sylvia - I keep telling myself that he'll come good

Rivers - doesn't need defending though

PJ - always thought he was better than what people gave him credit for

Players I don't defend:

Newton - never thought he was anything more than his mark of the year.

Bell - just don't think he's very good, should have shown more by now

CJ - why is he on our list?

[Demons 32 235]

Players I will stand up for:

I'll pick a fight for all of them. I will usually defend these guys more though as people don't really bag my other favs.

Miller (creats a much needed target),

Sylvia (he actually is a good player),

Morton (I don't care if he is skinny or looks tired, stay out there mate),

Neitz (he is the greatest) and

Carroll (malinged but does his job really well and plays for the jumper.)

Ones I won't defend are:

Garland (just doesn't look like he will make it, im hoping he grows some confidence from his first win.)

Bode (get off my team)

Overall though. I love them all and will defend them to the death, except Bode.