Hannabal

Three of them played in premierships and another won three Brownlow medals. Three of them were captains on the day their clubs won a premiership. I'd suggest that the burden didn't weigh them down and that they were the right person for the job. My choice ? Trengove - and only Trengove.

Excellent post. And at their best I really enjoyed watching their contested footy. The best H&A game I've ever seen (no exaggeration) was the Saints versus Geelong in round 14, 2009. Both sides came into the match undefeated and the Saints won by a goal and if my memory serves me correctly Michael Gardiner kicked the winning one. The Saints won their first 19 games that year.

Explain why it's not credible and provide a scientific journal that supports your view that there is no adverse effects on a child.

Green is a poor captain and I'd remove him at year's end, but you don't disrespect the office. It's not about Green. It was a poor decision. Another one in a long line.

Gameplans are always evolving. What got them to 3 grand finals won't get them to another. He's smart enough to know that. If he's good enough he's malleable and if he's malleable I think he's good enough.

You don't make your captain the sub under any circumstances.

"I've heard it too, but the key phrase here is "all but confirmed." I don't trust the AFL as far as I could throw them, in these matters, and I wouldn't have thought you would either." I have no reason to disbelieve him. The criteria is heavily weighted on the age of the player and the remuneration they've been offered. Those two factors all but guarantee two first rounders. "Funny though, cos I recall a thread some time ago where you rubbished another poster's opinion that they'd trade Scully straight up for David Swallow in a heartbeat." Me rubbish another posters opinion ? That's a stretch. I don't remember the thread, or post, but it's possible. I say a lot of things and sometimes they'll come back to burn you. You're a new poster, but recall something I wrote ages ago ? What names have you posted under ? Is that you Charlie Brown ? "What's your opinion on this now?" Are you setting me up for a massive "bump" down the track ? I reckon that Scully will be a very good player. It's unfair to judge him on a season where his knee is giving him major troubles and there's been an enormous amount of speculation over his future. Adam Cooney has looked like a chump for most of the year, but in a period where his knee was feeling good he reverted to the match winner we all know. Right now Scully is getting pushed off the ball too easily, doesn't have great power in his legs, and is making rushed decisions with his handball due to not trusting his break away speed. It's all related to the injury. Will he overcome his knee issues ? I don't know, so it's difficult to crystal ball gaze when contemplating his career. I think that at his best he'll be close to Swallow, but that Swallow will most likely shade him. Not only is Swallow smooth, beautifully balanced, strong, but he also kicks goals. I rate goal kicking mids highly.

Adrian Anderson has all but confirmed that Melbourne would receive two first round draft picks. I heard the interview.

You're missing the point. Not that I necessarily agree, but the care factor for Scully leaving has gone from extreme to moderate, or less.

Follow your senses, Frankieboy.

Yes it's self-indulgent. Call me self-indulgent.

Bump. It's a thread worth revisiting. Some of us were concerned about the lack of defence in Bailey's gameplan and some wanted to constantly make excuses, or simply didn't have a great grasp on all things football. I suspect a bit of both. This article confirms the views of some of us and may embarrass others. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/demons-build-on-defensive-tactics/story-e6frf9jf-1226118364174 "TODD Viney doesn't shy from the fact his short-term plan for the Demons is diametrically opposed to that chosen by Dean Bailey." No-one said that there was no defence under Bailey, or that we weren't trying to implement a press, but that the focus on attack (run and spread) and defence didn't nearly have the right balance. It was mentioned that Bailey got "caught with his pants down over summer". Naturally, most of you at the time disagreed. Clearly many at the club didn't. Of course there's not much talk about it now. Funny about that. Yes, yes, we're now focused on other things.

That makes two if us. Read my sig. Your absence will make for fairer debate. You've always appreciated the power of the written word on the internet, which is why you manipulated debate under different guises. You didn't do it for the fun of it. It was calculated to be 'pro' whatever the club did. And Black Duck was on the old forum in about 2003 for about 2 weeks. Good one. Ciao comrades.

I share an innocuous text message about his first half and some supporters go into a 'spin' about a seemingly disparaging analysis. I'm yet to hear about his second half, although I probably will in the Bullring after the game, but I won't bother sharing it. Better things to do. The kid will be a bona fide gun.

I wouldn't expect you to say anything different, now would I ? Our inability to stop teams when they have a 'run on' and our capacity to produce quarters like the one against Hawthorn, and the first quarter against West Coast - where we conceded something like 20 inside 50's, tells the story of a side that doesn't have great disciplines and structures in place. You think that's ok, because we'll get those apsects right in time, whilst I reckon some of our insipid performances have reflected poorly on the coaching staff and our organisation on the field. Jim Stynes joining the FD suggest that he's had concerns too. Getting flogged and having terrible matches due to poor structures, being out-coached, and inconsistent "efforts" doesn't help the progress of any individual player. Bailey is in a wonderful position. He's the architect of his future. If the effort is consistent and they regularly have a crack then I'll be reasonably happy. I'm not sure I'll be convinced that he's a really good coach, but he will have gone a long way to getting his detractors to shut their traps. A large part of it for me is about the effort. Bailey isn't solely responsible for that, but he wears a decent chunk of it. At this stage in our development it's not all about wins for me.

Gameplan and structure come under the umbrella of "gameplan". It's how you want to set-up and how you want to play. You're right, you do get bogged down in semantics. But it doesn't surprise me that anyone who considers gameplan to be "small potatoes" would have this view. AFL clubs put an extraordinary amount of time into their structures and playing ethos yet you consider it to be "small potatoes" ? I'll let others form a view. In Bailey's 4th year as coach he's still not ready to have a real focus on gameplan, because the group isn't in premiership mode ? I don't buy it. You say "Our current focus ios (sic) on developing a team that can win a flag. Once we are close to this point then we can shift our focus to gameplans and structures". I disagree. Your team won't get to the point of being close to win a flag if you haven't turned them into a well drilled side with quality structures. It's not like you can just turn the tap on when you think the group is ready. Gameplans can and will vary over time, but when you've got a core group of a dozen players of a similar age all coming through together you're developing theory and structures from the outset that make them predictable to each other. You also say "And you are arguing points using examples of teams that were far more advanced in their development than we are, such as Roos’ Sydney and Malthouse’s Collingwood. I don’t think that this is relevant in applying Viney’s quote. It would be interesting to see how they would react if they were in Melbourne’s position". Yes, I'm using examples that reflect the facts, while you're trying to guess if they'd have a different philosophy if they were coaching Melbourne. Malthouse's 2010 premiership team was younger than the Baby Bombers of 93 and considering that yesterday he said, "we don't win with players, we win with structures" it's fair to say that your guesswork is wide of the mark. Btw, you can stop suggesting where you think I'm getting "confused". I think I've shown that if anyone is uncertain about the relevance of 'gameplan' it's you. I know where our list is at, but clearly have a different philosophical approach to you. When one considers the typical averages of age and 'games played' for premiership teams it's likely our window will open from 2014 onwards. This is a crutch for supporters like yourself that don't think detailed time needs to be spent on structures, set-ups, etc. Clearly I disagree with these sentiments and have expressed why. There's an underlying tone that because I want the side to be well coached and disciplined out on the field that I'd let individual player development take a back seat. That's not true at all. They don't have to be mutually exclusive, in fact, they compliment each other. Where we really differ is that I believe that Bailey has fallen short when it comes to getting the right structures in place and he's now playing catch-up. Your last tidbits: "As for your opinion, I’m not arrogant enough to think that I’ve changed your opinion. However, by allowing you to attempt to discuss things properly, rather than petty point scoring, (I’m up, by the way) I have simply allowed you to start thinking about it yourself and you are, in a way, convincing yourself. And there’s no shame in it, because that’s how we all should form our opinions. By critically reflecting on our own thoughts we can improve." ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pure condescending drivel.

This is the quote. You don't say that if you've already signed a HoA. There's a lot of nervous nellies that post here.

Why ?

My contact watched the whole game too and if you're interested I'll get a report on his second half. What were their structures like ?

I'm not relying on anything sweetcheeks. Viney had a quiet game and it's no biggie. Have you ever heard Shifter say anything other than superlatives about any player ever drafted. Cook up nachos tonight.

Were you there ? The person that told me is a fanatical Dees supporter that only went to the game to see Viney. That person has been tracking Viney since he was 11 years old playing footy with Ashburton. The person doesn't post at Demonland and was purely passing on their thoughts to me as a fellow supporter. The preciousness of Melbourne supporters is truly something to behold. FMIDKWIBWTCOAS

No, they're just not into the spin that permeates this site. EDIT: admittedly the comments were made at half time. He may have played a better second half.

They have 3 of their most important 6 out, plus Johnson and Beams. I genuinely don't see why we won't be very competitive.

Will be a gun, but it was an ordinary game from him as reported to me by someone who was there.

I'm a Blease fan and only watched the first half, but he was horrible. I've got the rest of the game taped and will watch with interest.