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Changes v North Melbourne

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Don’t Care much about the changes please just beat this mob, I made the mistake of looking at kangaroos board on bigfooty, they have already pencilled this in as a win for them, I hate the smug pricks the streak must end 

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1 minute ago, brendan said:

Don’t Care much about the changes please just beat this mob, I made the mistake of looking at kangaroos board on bigfooty, they have already pencilled this in as a win for them, I hate the smug pricks the streak must end 

We want nothing more!

Wonder how many times Goodwin or one of our players will get asked about the streak by the media this week? 

Punters also believe North are a good bet. Someone posted their odds prior to the weekend, around $4.80. Now into $3.55

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The big question is whether we bring in Frost. We know we are trying to get Lever to learn to be the second key defender, but Esava Ratugolea and whoever Brisbane's second tall forward was are different propositions to Brown and Waite.

Personally, I think we should play Frost. He'll add run, which we need, and he'll be able to run off Waite/Brown who are both weakish defensively. I think we'll do better from Frost standing Brown and OMac Waite, with Lever loose and Hibberd freer to roam than we will forcing Lever to play Waite (and OMac Brown).

So, if we bring in Frost, who do we drop? I doubt it will be Wagner, who was better than at least 6 last night and much better than Demonland is giving him credit for. I also doubt we'll drop Lewis, although he's not adding a huge amount. And Salem is working on his inside game and I saw real improvement from him last night in that area. If we're trying him as a mid we need to give him more than these two weeks before making a call, I think.

Assuming no injuries, I think the players in danger of being dropped are Hunt, Harmes and Bugg.

7 hours ago, rpfc said:

I don't agree!

And Lewis had about 5 howlers that were cringeworthy but I know the club see him as a net positive. And let's be honest, he will play if fit. He also had 10 intercept possies which is pretty good.

Vince did a job on Zorko - he only had 9 uncontested possessions - so he still has it does Bernie.

Lever is adjusting to being the second defender as opposed to the third and it is a struggle at the minute... He panicked a few times...young players and all that.

Another adjusting is Salem but if we are to turn him into a mid then two months, rather than two weeks, will need to be had before judgement can be made. He was also 2nd in pressure acts to Oliver.

Tyson just finds the footy, he can make some mistakes but I prefer him to many others.

Harmes sneaks up you but he ANB, Melksham, and Hunt are our link players and they are our bellwether I think - our transition relies on them.

Agree, but Harmes is not playing that role well at all at the moment. Hunt is also really struggling to impact at the moment. 

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53 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Agree, but Harmes is not playing that role well at all at the moment. Hunt is also really struggling to impact at the moment. 

I agree, they all have been patchy, it's important for us that they lift - I don't think we bat that deep with those types of players...

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, CBDees said:

Out > Bugg, Lewis

In > Brayshaw, Frost

Wagner did enough IMHO to warrant another week!

They're playing Wagner to get more dash, more speed, run, into our back half. He was good a couple of years back, then dropped off.

 I'm not against giving him time at this stage of the season.

 

The trialing is all about balancing development,,, up against our ladder position.   As long as we're in touch for September, we can continue.

If we drop behind, we'll have to re-senior our team.

Edited by DV8
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2 hours ago, brendan said:

Don’t Care much about the changes please just beat this mob, I made the mistake of looking at kangaroos board on bigfooty, they have already pencilled this in as a win for them, I hate the smug pricks the streak must end 

Good.  We'll go in as the under-wallaby in this game. And see what transpires.

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8 hours ago, Tough Kent said:

You want Lewis out of the side but then go on to say he cost us finals last year by being out of the side???

100% correct you can't argue drop him then say he cost because he got suspended ! They can't be serious !!!( thanks Macca) 

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7 hours ago, DV8 said:

They're playing Wagner to get more dash, more speed, run, into our back half. He was good a couple of years back, then dropped off.

 I'm not against giving him time at this stage of the season.

 

The trialing is all about balancing development,,, up against our ladder position.   As long as we're in touch for September, we can continue.

If we drop behind, we'll have to re-senior our team.

Wagner has one big problem, when he gets the ball he either turns it over or picks the wrong option and puts another player immediately under pressure.

I would prefer Frost, who has speed and occasionally breaks the game open, running through the line. He also gets caught and disposal is iffy, but would always pick him in front of Wagner.

Would like to see Brayshaw come in, possibly for Hunt who seems injured or restricted in some way at the moment!

Only two changes, you need to give guys at least a few weeks to settle into the season. To those who will say Wagner only got two weeks, he played AFLx, 2 by JLT and first two AFL matches, would love to be proved wrong but he looks the same as always to me, NQR!

 

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I'm in the camp that we need to bring Frost in to release Lever to that third tall, intercept marking player as that is his biggest strength. He definitely needs to be able to one on one defend as well, but I'm sure he will continue to work on that while we also utilize him in our side. At present it seems Wagner is playing the third tall role and while I thought he was ok on Saturday night, we've got a player who is miles ahead of him in that role so he must go out.

I want to get Brayshaw back in the side, but I'm unsure who makes way for him. Salem isn't racking up heaps of touches, but he is doing some good defensive things and we need his kicking going inside 50 so I don't want him out. Hunt does seem to have lost a little of his explosive pace, which I wonder is a result of the back issues he has been having? I also think he should be played more of the half back flank where he can break the lines with his run. 

People calling for Lewis to go out are kidding themselves, he will play the whole season if fit. He needs to only play the sweeper role though as that suits him at this point in his career. He will also become more important as the season gets on and the play starts slowing down due to players tiring. Vince did a good shut-down role on Zorko who can really cut teams up and has had massive games in the past. I would be putting Vince on Higgins as he is probably the Roos most dangerous mid now.

So just one change for Round 2 with Frost in and Wagner out.

B:        Jetta           OMac         Lever

HB:     Lewis          Frost          Hibberd

C:       Vince           Oliver         Tyson

HF:     Petracca    Hogan        Neal-Bullen

F:       Garlett         Pedersen   Fritsch

R:      Gawn          Jones          Salem

Int:    Melksham    Bugg      Hunt      Harmes

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Based on who and where we are playing this week; I would only do Frost for Wagner and some positional corrections. 

Drop Lewis into a traditional center player where his stoppage strength can be used and when required he can drop back behind the ball. Hunt is better behind the ball and breaking the lines forward. This should get his confidence back too. 

Salem is getting better at stoppage work however in time, his offense will need to up the ante to be considered a permanent onballer. I see him best used between on-ball, wing, and halfback. (40% inside, 60% outside)

B: Jetta, O.Mac, Lever

HB: Hunt, Frost, Hibberd

C. Salem, Lewis, Jones

HF: Melksham, Pederson, Neal-Bullen

F: Garlett, Hogan, Fritsch

FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, Petracca

I/C: Harmes, Tyson, Bugg, Vince

 

(rotating through the on-ball lines: Lewis, Salem, Jones, ANB, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes, Tyson, Vince, Garlett, Hogan)

Edited by Port Demons

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9 hours ago, Micksdemons said:

100% correct you can't argue drop him then say he cost because he got suspended ! They can't be serious !!!( thanks Macca) 

it's a new season...and lewis has been deplorable so far. its like he has aged 5 years in the pre-season. 

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8 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

it's a new season...and lewis has been deplorable so far. its like he has aged 5 years in the pre-season. 

Twins will do that to you!

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Sometimes we have to back that our team have the strength and depth to beat our opposition as a team.

we lost to north last year as Bernie was too involved in tagging Higgins...when Higgins got the better of him, that galvanised North and they got up.

i also think our lack of spread currently is due to players not playing zonal but following the man. They make it easy for opposition. Then when a team gets momentum, our players are chasing tails rather than trusting the system.

if they go in tagging again this week it shows we don’t trust our team we’ll enough.

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2 hours ago, D4Life said:

Wagner has one big problem, when he gets the ball he either turns it over or picks the wrong option and puts another player immediately under pressure.

I would prefer Frost, who has speed and occasionally breaks the game open, running through the line. He also gets caught and disposal is iffy, but would always pick him in front of Wagner.

Would like to see Brayshaw come in, possibly for Hunt who seems injured or restricted in some way at the moment!

Only two changes, you need to give guys at least a few weeks to settle into the season. To those who will say Wagner only got two weeks, he played AFLx, 2 by JLT and first two AFL matches, would love to be proved wrong but he looks the same as always to me, NQR!

 

That's composure, and experience, both required to overcome nerves, and foot skill level.   Most AFL players are not the most disposal skilled players in this country, but its a combination of all skills to make an AFL player.

Composure with focus most important, so the ball carrier allows themselves time to focus on what to do and how to do it, helps disposal skills.

All the coaches must believe that Wagner can overcome these ares and improve his disposal skills, with more games at AFL level pressure.

We certainly need more runners with some leg speed across the team, just as much as we need disposal accuracy.

I'm happy that the coaches see our weaknesses, and are actually doing things to teach/develop our players under pressure, to the betterment of the Future Demons team.

Frost and Wagner I don't see as competing with one another. I see them as tall and small-medium.  So I see that we need 2 tall key backs OMc & Frost, + 1 medium tall Lever (hopefully he can play on smallish types), and 2 or 3 running players including our stopper player/s.

 

I'm hopeful for anGus in defence, but not yet.  I don't want him in/under any longer.  I think he's a smart footy mind.

I would like to see him play off half back at Casey for a month to get the run of the position, when to go & when to stay.  Learn to play the role.

Half back controls the setups the tempo, the game really.  we need some smart players down there for our future and Hibbo has already turned 28, so we have maybe 2 more years in his prime.

 

We are still full-on in rebuilding the team and the leaders on the list. and our young leaders need senior leaders to show the way for them to learn under.

This i why I want us to get Sloane, who is also about 28.   He can be another who aids the development of Viney who is a young man learning leadership and learning footy still.

We are still deeply in a transition period of cellar dweller, to becoming an elite side.

 

Players like Wagner are strongly skilled in some areas. and need help developing other areas.  He is worth persisting with for what he brings naturally.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Port Demons said:

Based on who and where we are playing this week; I would only do Frost for Wagner and some positional corrections. 

Drop Lewis into a traditional center player where his stoppage strength can be used and when required he can drop back behind the ball. Hunt is better behind the ball and breaking the lines forward. This should get his confidence back too. 

Salem is getting better at stoppage work however in time, his offense will need to up the ante to be considered a permanent onballer. I see him best used between on-ball, wing, and halfback. (40% inside, 60% outside)

B: Jetta, O.Mac, Lever

HB: Hunt, Frost, Hibberd

C. Salem, Lewis, Jones

HF: Melksham, Pederson, Neal-Bullen

F: Garlett, Hogan, Fritsch

FOLL: Gawn, Oliver, Petracca

I/C: Harmes, Tyson, Bugg, Vince

(rotating through the on-ball lines: Lewis, Salem, Jones, ANB, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes, Tyson, Vince, Garlett, Hogan)

I'd like to suggest that Lever can play Lewis's role, and sweep the defence, starting from defensive-Wing position. It allows him to sweep the back half and also to help setup our attacking moves.

Having height and bulk on the wing, isn't a weakness.  More marking ability between the Arcs, is also beneficial.

 

B: Jetta, O.Mac, Wagner

HB: Lewis, Frost, Hibberd

C. Jones, Salem, Lever

HF: Melksham, Pederson, Neal-Bullen

----------------------

Casey > Hunt to get himself right.

Edited by DV8
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No sure why every second post has Frost as an in?

Have posters forgotten about JLT 1 that quickly?

We gave North a smacking that day due to an almost four quarter strong team defence game which made life easy for our defenders. Both teams were basically at full strength.

Fost is most definitely not needed imo.

We just need individuals to start playing high level four quarter footy.

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13 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

No sure why every second post has Frost as an in?

Have posters forgotten about JLT 1 that quickly?

We gave North a smacking that day due to an almost four quarter strong team defence game which made life easy for our defenders. Both teams were basically at full strength.

Fost is most definitely not needed imo.

We just need individuals to start playing high level four quarter footy.

JLT? yeah we have. For good reason.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

JLT? yeah we have. For good reason.

The Roos will have Jy Simpkin as the only player to come in to their forward-line.

Explain to me why we need Frost given we could have the same 6 defenders playing against the 5 of the same 6 forwards from JLT 1? 

We don't need Frost. I'm not sure what else needs to be said.

Edited by stevethemanjordan

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Im getting sick and tired of Jordan Lewis and his attitude. i personally think Lewis and Bernie Vince can't play in the same team too similar and both too slow.

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1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

No sure why every second post has Frost as an in?

Have posters forgotten about JLT 1 that quickly?

We gave North a smacking that day due to an almost four quarter strong team defence game which made life easy for our defenders. Both teams were basically at full strength.

Fost is most definitely not needed imo.

We just need individuals to start playing high level four quarter footy.

JLT is fools gold dont be swayed by those matches. We need another tall in our backline for team balance, we are getting exposed time and time again. Lewis is a big time liability. How long can this continue? coaches are forcing winning avenues to goal through Lewis' deficiencies.

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Most players rarely reinvent themselves, even those that do normally do so by bringing their strength to a new position/role. Kent is fast and aggressive, but also very lazy and an unreliable kick.  His attack at the contest (getting to it, while the ball is still there to be won; not arriving when the opposition have it and the only option is to apply belated pressure/tackle) was also lacking.  Against the quality of opposition on reported to be on display these poor qualities are not tested or shown out, while the strength will be exemplified.  He is not yet ready.  

On exposed form Hannan, Brayshaw and Stretch seem closest.

Although our defence has looked poor, it seems a lot of this stems from our wings and forward flanks.  Melskam has been out of form and our wings seem to be out of position.  This can be corrected by positional changes, but I believe the coaches are trying to teach players these new roles with an eye on the future.

Easy solution is for Jones to revert to Center and Salem to the wing (allows him space).  Hunt to the back flank to gain confidence is also an easy option. Jones, Lewis can rotate.  I'd look at Vince playing Half forward flank / wing where he could be threatening from 50-60 forcing oppositions to stretch their zones a bit further from goal (give him a checking role on their possession winner, so that he doesn't play lose).

Brayshaw in Bugg would be my option, but Bugg does seem to do a lot of the team things.  

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

JLT is fools gold dont be swayed by those matches. We need another tall in our backline for team balance, we are getting exposed time and time again. Lewis is a big time liability. How long can this continue? coaches are forcing winning avenues to goal through Lewis' deficiencies.

Just wondering which big forwards have been ripping us a new one, thereby requiring the addition of another tall

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5 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Just wondering which big forwards have been ripping us a new one, thereby requiring the addition of another tall

Didn't Ben Brown hammer us last year?

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1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

The Roos will have Jy Simpkin as the only player to come in to their forward-line.

Explain to me why we need Frost given we could have the same 6 defenders playing against the 5 of the same 6 forwards from JLT 1? 

We don't need Frost. I'm not sure what else needs to be said.

One thing that can be said is that in the real AFL for points world, our defence has been very poor.

Unlike the Just Like Training comp. 

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37 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Didn't Ben Brown hammer us last year?

Everyone's going on about Ben Brown in the North Stkilda game he took 2 good marks and had 11 possessions his first few goals were standing in the goal square receiving a pass from someone else who had done all the work and could have kicked the goal themselves. He got a dogey free right in front for another. He's a good mark if allowed to extend his arms . MacDonald or Frost should be able to limit him to a few. Our player who worries me at the moment is Jetta who is really struggling and makes us look small in the back line if he's injured give him a few weeks off as we need him in good form.

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