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Goodwin has one more chance next year to turn it around imv. We built a list to play a brand of footy that won us a flag. And much of that core had certain attributes suited to the type of game we wanted to play. We were all happy about the flag and celebrated it, Goody will forever be thanked and appreciated for that. However, the AFL is a forward moving beast and we can't continue to live in the past and especially not in the space of 'our list is good enough if we don't get injuries'. That won't cut it so I think supporters need to drop that line of thinking. It's clear that whilst that brand of footy keeps you competitive in a finals environment, it's not sustainable throughout an entire home and away campaign and certainly not against sides who play a more Offensively-minded, risk taking brand of footy when finals-like nerves and pressure are not there. I think our recalibration has been slow and our list management to date has been poor and if calls for an end of year review are true, I think it'll be welcome. This year has been a shocker on many fronts but I remain bullish about where we can be next year like many. As longgggg as the club make some difficult calls over the off-season. Without having a dig at the die-hards on here who would refuse to entertain a trade of any sort involving one of our premiership players, I think it might be needed if we're going to see serious improvement and evolution to this side. As others have pointed out, the AFL is a competition that is embedded in the entertainment industry and if we want to continue to 'grow' our club and inch closer to a 'big' club like many hoped post Grand Final, we're going to need to seriously look at how we want to play as a side. 16,000 and 17,000 supporters to home games in consecutive weeks is reflective of the type of football we play. It is boring as bat-[censored] and whilst some supporters might be happy with our game against Port, I see it as nothing more than a desperate damage control effort from Goody and co. Nobody wants to watch that [censored] and I can almost guarantee that our high-end kids and stars don't want to play in games like that. Petracca has said as much publicly. Unfortunately, this is where we see ourselves after investing so heavily in players with attributes that suited a game-plan that Goody believed would stand the test of time. And from this, the demonlanders who delve into stats come up with all sorts of statistics that will justify their views about why we're performing the way we are. I've said it all before but it's down to list imbalance completely and wholly. With a game-plan now in transition and some key personnel out, all is being revealed and the cracks that have been there for so long are now gaping holes. Posters can hold me to this, but I sense we will lose next week by 50+ given what I've outlined above. Gold Coast are a highly skilled side and I think we got ourselves up for some faux 'pride back in the jumper' type of stuff against Port. I think our levels of enthusiasm and interest are dropping off big time. Hard calls need to be made in the off-season, it can't come quickly enough and we need a serious look at how we want to grow this club going forward. I think we're on the edge of needing to move a Fritsch, Viney, Oliver (perhaps not based off of this year's form) on for some fresh air, youth, enthusiasm, new life. I think supporters need to take a long-term view of this club. Footy should be fun. For players and supporters alike. You want to come and watch exciting football. The MFC are anything but that and we haven't seen it since the 21 finals series which should tell us all something. I still think we have a capable core with some serious weapons but we absolutely need a serious change up over the off-season with an injection of skill, composure and a new found love of actually playing the game. Goodwin has got to get the memo that spitting out the same words at pressers and to the players is just soul destroying and just sucks all the life out of the supporters and players. We need to reshuffle our coaches/ bring a couple of fresh voices and ideas in. We need another injection of high end talent from the draft that will help inspire our older stars just as Windsor and Tholstrup have done at times this year. We need to address our game-plan and list imbalances and explore the options of off-loading an experienced player for a player that will help correct some of our execution downfalls. A courageous but necessary inquiry if you ask me. All is not lost. But this joint needs a whack around the ears. Otherwise we are at risk of more than just missing out again next year. We'll be at risk of stars wanting to leave, supporters dropping off even more which will have huge implications for any growth model we've set. Still without a home base whilst every other club seems to be upgrading the million doller facilities they've had for years. We will be left behind, make no mistake. If supporters think this is hyperbole, you're living on planet X. The competition is constantly evolving and we better get with the picture next year or watch this space.

If it was up to me, I would give him a run this weekend and get Picket to hold his hand and run through the banner.. Banner to read…, “There’s been lots of talking this kid up from Picket…. now get Jeffo the ball and watch him Kick it”

I too sit right near the bench. Not only was Oliver dripping snot as he was coming to the bench (it was quite the sight 🤮), in the first quarter he was on hands and knees on the field, with our team doctor, sticking his fingers down his throat in an effort to make himself throw up as he was presumably unwell. As someone with a serious phobia of vomiting, that nearly ended my 25 year stint at the football 😂 JVR also looked absolutely cooked every time he ran to the bench. It was like the jogging to the bench was going to end him. COME AT ME FACE PALMERS 💪🏻

At the top end of the talent spectrum, if Petracca and May play, Butters and Allir don’t you have a very different result.

What does it matter we knew before the season started they couldn't play? We couldn't replace them, so no different to losing two best 23 players to injury for the whole season. Bowey is definitely in our best team. I'd argue smith and spargo are too. But for the sake of argument let's say they're not. So Tracc, May, Gus, Bowey and Windsor from our best team - all starters. Nearly a quarter of our very best team we could field with no injury. Four premiership players, May and Tracc multiple AA, three top 10 draft picks (2, 3 and 7!), 600 odd games of AFL footy and I'd argue three of our best six players. As young blood notes, it's semantic siliness to debate if that equals severely undermanned. But surely there's no debate any team missing a comparable number of their best, no injury 23 would struggle. Collingwood for instance. Isn't the key point that we did very well against, almost beat in fact, the team sitting second on the ladder with an undermanned team?

I’m only going to the footy now if Petty plays forward. If he has to move back for any reason I’ll immediately vacate the MCG, but stand near the gates in case he runs back over the centre line and I can go back in.

What a ridiculous reason to not attend a game, because they don't like Petty playing a certain position. It's actually laughable. Toys out of the cot ridiculous levels. But you're right, it is their right. And we have a lot of stupid supporters. The amount that I listen to in the MCC who either have no idea who the players are, or yell kick it when there is clearly no one ahead of the play or clearly marked. Anyway, good on them. As long as they don't steal my GF ticket when we eventually get another crack. At least those that were there the other night were vocal and passionate.

Please take your facts and leave

Amazing that, apart from Jackson and Bedford, every single one that we've wanted to re-sign has done so. How do you reconcile that?

Imagine fans not turning up when the team is not winning?! Happens at literally every club Look at the Hawks, low numbers and now going on a winning streak, they are coming back in their droves Arguing about it is futile

Wish I just had 8 mates…

The Goodwin detractors operate on several assumptions which I believe to be wrong. The first is that seasons 2022 and 2023 were a complete fail. Sure, I was not happy that we went out in straight sets in both of them, but to be top four in each was a real achievement - compare Richmond in 2021, Geelong in 2023, and now Collingwood. And particularly in 2023, there were good reasons - the injuries to 2/3 or more of our forward line made it almost impossible to succeed, and all credit to everyone involved for how close we came. The second assumption is that because we have eg the best ruckman in the comp, we should win every hitout; because we have a great midfield we should win every clearance, etc.. It only has to be said for the fallacy to be obvious. Then there is the assumption that there are, eg, good ruckmen around who would be prepared to come to the club and spend the vast bulk of the year at Casey in order to replace Max if he goes down for a short or a long period. Such palyers are in very short supply. And we don't have 'lifestyle" to offer a la Geelong, and the come-home factor for Victorians is shared with many other clubs. Finally, there is a lot of criticism of Goody for not changing to a game plan of speed and skill. In short, our list was built for defence and contest. In 2011-2012, Neeld was given a list built for pace and skill and tried to turn it into a hard defensive team - with predictably disastrous results. To do this in reverse would be equally disastrous. Goody has tried to change the game plan up a bit this year, with mixed results, but why should we? Our game is contest and defence and it is still effective despite the injuries that we now have- getting so close to Brisbane, GWS and Port Adelaide, all genuine contenders, shows that. Some people say it is dull and boring. That is a matter of taste - personally, I love a hard, defensive game and absolutely hate a boring goalfest a la basketball. And what I absolutely love is to go along and see us being competitive, even when we are expected to lose by 10 goals as we were against Port. Yes, there have been a few very poor performances this year, but generally we have turned up to play and have shown some spirit. After decades of watching games with only the hope that I might see a glimmer for the future, this is now a real pleasure.

All aboard the JEFFO JUGGERNAUT this week. Im driving this train!🤑

Tomlinson should get dropped for breaking a team rule in the third quarter. He took a mark in the centre of the ground, took on his opponent, recorded a quick inside 50 entry thereby causing a bit of stress on the Port defence.

I would love a medal, for continuously trying to make sense of the need for posters to take every single thing that someone else says that they disagree with out of context. You wrongly noted we only missed 2 of our best 22 against Port, and I corrected you and said we also missed May (who I assume you agree is a best 22 player). You then went on and on because another posted noted that we were 'severely undermanned', not me mind you, another poster. So I just wanted to point out, that had you actually read this thread from the start, you'd know that straight after the game the ONLY comment I made was about our skills and decision making costing us the game. I never mentioned injuries. All I wanted to do was point out that you forgot to mention May in your list of outs. I even made a joke about him not being great, you know, to lighten the mood. Demonland is such a miserable place when we are losing, not because people are rightly frustrated and want to express their views, but because everyone who wants to be a sad sack gets so overly sensitive when someone else tries to refute their opinion, or show them the positives.

Yes, that's the team I'm talking about. The same one, bar Georgiades, that beat the Swans the previous week by, checks notes, 136 points. Not quite sure of your point? I said we were undermanned and did very well against the side sitting second on the ladder. I didn't say they had their very best side available - though it's a stretch to compare their outs to ours - no AAs in that lot, let alone one of the best players of the last 30 years. And arguably, of those five only Georgiades and SSP are in their best team. And only SPP has a case for being one of their top six players, whereas we have three such players out. Am i right to assume you don't agree we did well? Before the game, did you think we were a realistic chance of winning on Saturday night? That's to say, did we perform above or below your pregame expectations? Do you think we did a better job against port than the Swans, the favourite to win the flag, did the previous week? Some might argue we did 134 points better.

Spot on. On the board they show the players at the quarter time break, in the reinforcements/solutions section they had the word corridor at quarter time (along with the pressure rating 1.83, conquest and contest). Presumably that was to reinforce the strategy to deny port the corridor. I'm not sure exactly what some posters expect - particularly those who don't rate the playing list or coach A bit of perspective wouldn't go astray sometimes. Many posters expected we'd get flogged. As did the punters - we started @ $3. We are clearly cooked. Multiple players are clearly carrying injuries, including 4 of our best 6 players (Lever, gawn, viney and clarry - whose hand is causing him obvious issues). Including smith and gus (and it makes zero sense not to),we were missing six of our best 23 (7 if you include Spargs) - one of whom is arguably the best player in the AFL (tracc) and another is arguably the best KPD in the AFL. Therefore we were missing more than a quarter of our best 23 and half our best six players (gus is/was in my top 6). Those players are replaced by, as tou suggest, vfl level players. And we are having to play a bunch of kids who are clearly paddling Our elite midfield is missing tracc and Gus, maxy is labouring and clarry struggling What would have been the point trying to take on the corridor and try and go fast? We didn't have enough players with the skills to execute the sort of high risk kicking and split second elite decision making that method demands. And more crucially, we also lack the all team running power and speed that method demands. Port would have demolished us if we tried to play any other way. Opposition teams have been looking to run us of our legs and spread us wide Port are one the hardest running teams in the AFL from their back half. For pete's sake they scored 148 points against last week doing exactly that to the team on top of the ladder. 148 points. We kept port to almost a third of that score on a perfect night for footy, with as you say plenty of VFL standard players running around, a bunch of kids, multiple players who'll need post season surgery and a team who are collectively gassed. And we almost beat them. Top work goody.

The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 12th August @ 7:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons lossat the MCG against the Power in the Round 22. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat LIVE: https://demonland.com/podcast Call: 03 9016 3666 Skype: Demonland31

You can’t gate keep supporting and decide who is and who isn’t true based on how they take part in the club and game.

I think we should rest him and send him off for surgery on his hand. I guess the club has different considerations regarding his mental well being and how connected that is to his ability to play each week. If it was my call he’d be off to get his hand fixed today, and given an early return date to pre season training with clear fitness markers that he has to hit (skin folds, kms run, etc).

Talk is a number of players were crook, including JVR, Tracks with Bowey being an out due to illness. If true (it's unsubstantiated), it makes the performance of the team and Goody even more meritorious. BUT BEFORE THE FACE PALM POSSE JUMP ALL OVER ME, IF IT IS TRUE THAT SEVERAL PLAYERS WERE ILL, IT IS A FACTOR TO CONSIDER IN ANY ASSESSMENT OF THE PERFORMANCE NOT AN EXCUSE!

History will probably not remember Melbourne’s Round 22 loss to Port Adelaide on Saturday night at the MCG. After all, what was there worthy of retaining in the memory banks for supporters to take away from a game where the sides found it a struggle to find the goals and their combined score barely passed 100 points? Perhaps, the meagre attendance of less than 18,000 at a Melbourne game against a finals-bound opponent at the MCG for the second time in a fortnight that saw so many embarrassing gaps in the stadium’s sitting areas and a singular lack of crowd participation to cheer the team home in a close finish? Or, if one AFL club coach is to be believed, to provide sufficient noise of affirmation to draw a favourable umpiring decision for the home side at a crucial moment late in the game? Or the efforts of Kysaiah Pickett, who scored four of his team’s seven goals (including the goal that put Melbourne back in front at the eleven minute mark of the final quarter) in a best on ground performance which almost singlehandedly won the game for his team? On top of those four goals, Pickett who has been criticized recently for not contributing enough in matches, put together a classy display of 21 disposals, four marks, six tackles, eight score involvements and multiple high pressure acts. Or the number of opportunities squandered after Pickett’s final term goal that could have seen an unlikely Demon victory in light of Port’s demolition of league leader Sydney by almost 19 goals a week earlier? Squandered opportunities that led to the club’s fourth defeat this season by less than a single goal. Let that sink in - an extra goal per game could have seen the club still vying for a qualifying final appearance. As Melbourne Simon Goodwin said afterwards: “I thought certainly through the middle part of the (last) quarter we had some dominance where we could have hit the scoreboard a little bit more and I think that was probably the story of the night.” Or the heroic effort of injury-stricken leaders Max Gawn and Jack Viney as they constantly willed themselves into a contest that each could be excused for having given a miss altogether? The Demons had far too few consistent four quarter contributions in the game although honourable mentions should go to Alex Neal-Bullen and Christian Salem who played their hearts out and a number of others who tried and kept Melbourne in the game against a hard-working and more motivated opponent. After all, the Demons won the contested possession count 160 to 130 - an area in which they have been deficient for a good part of the season. Or the possibility that illness within the group soured the team’s last ditch stand to maintain credibility among the competition’s middle tier? Perhaps one memorable highlight might be that Max cemented his All-Australian credentials because he is far and above every other contender for that post in this competition? The best that can be said of Melbourne is that it ends the round as one of the better sides to ever sit in thirteenth place on the ladder - a fact that is not one that will ever provide a lasting memory to many Demon fans.  MELBOURNE 2.3.15 4.5.29 6.5.41 7.9.51 PORT ADELAIDE 2.4.16 3.8.26 5.8.38 7.11.53 GOALS MELBOURNE Pickett 4 Fritsch
 Langdon Neal-Bullen PORT ADELAIDE Dixon Horne-Francis 2 Butters Byrne-Jones Narkle BEST MELBOURNE Pickett Gawn Viney Neal-Bullen Salem
 Petty PORT ADELAIDE Horne-Francis Butters Rozee Houston Boak Burgoyne INJURIES MELBOURNE Nil PORT ADELAIDE Marshall (concussion) LATE CHANGES MELBOURNE Taj Woewodin (illness) replaced in selected side by Jack Billings Jake Bowey replaced in selected side by Blake Howes PORT ADELAIDE Nil REPORTS MELBOURNE Nil PORT ADELAIDE Nil SUBSTITUTIONS MELBOURNE Jake Melksham replaced Jacob van Rooyen in the fourth quarter
 PORT ADELAIDE Quinton Narkle replaced Todd Marshall at half-time UMPIRES Hayden Gavine Andrew Heffernan Brent Wallace Nicholas McGinness CROWD 17,867 at the MCG

There’s more to life than footy. I’ve kids and a busy job so fitting in games isn’t always possible. I’m not going to get on supporters backs if they don’t want to go. It’s their decision. But spare me the lame excuses. We have a small core, relative to other clubs, of hardcore fans that will show up hail or shine. That’s the reality for us. No point self-flagellating because we had a small crowd at a late season game when our chances of finals have all but gone. This is who we are. Best to accept rather than engaging in loyalty tests and turning on each other.

I solely watched Oliver for about 10 mins in the 2nd or 3rd quarter, he hardly moved from the centre square or wing area and was usually 30+ metres off the contest. Barely broke out of a jog. He has to have a virus or something, yes he's had a down year but something about this game looked different. Someone in the gameday thread mentioned when he came off he was throwing up or something like that so who knows but it made the Clarry we've been getting this year look pretty good.

Everyone be nice to the train driver.

Our pursuit of Houston would have started a while back, at a time when we would have expected our first round pick to be 10-12 or something. As the season has fallen apart, and that pick is now 6 with a possibility of becoming 5 (or even 4 if we want to get really pessimistic…), the club may well have had to reconsider. I’d sure hope so, anyway.

Goodwin won't change, he does the same thing week after week even when it fails.

They have unique advantages that clubs like us do not have. The obvious one being the 'lifestyle' card they can play to attract trades and free agents which has worked a treat for them, Bailey Smith being another who will likely join to get out of the Melbourne footy bubble. They've also had Wells as their list manager for an eternity although he's now head of recruitment I believe. He's been without doubt the most successful and best list/recruitment manager over the past 20 years, consistently nailing picks both in the ND and RD. They have eyes all over leagues across the Bellarine Peninsula which is basically their own recruiting 'zone' or 'academy'. I mean, they plucked Tom Stewart from the clouds. They have an genuine home-ground advantage compared to us whenever they play their which is a huge reason they continue to win so many h/a games. Compare their home-ground advantage to us, it's chalk and cheese. Those four points alone have given them a huge advantage, tie that in with the types of leaders they had during their premiership years, Selwood alone, the culture they have built and maintained, Chris Scott as a coach and it's no wonder they've been able to 'overcome' the normal 'rebuild' that most clubs go through post flag years.

The has to be one of the best posts on demonland.

Max will retire not only as a great of this club but a great of the game. He is enormous both on the field and in his representation off the field. One can only guess how many new supporters he has brought to the club

Losing LJ was a massive loss, but there was nothing we could do about it…

I hear Petracca might be on the market

Two years would be stupid. One year for TMac but we should try to retain him.

Ok, this a tricky question ...and Im a huge Oliver fan....but do we just rest him now with 25 in sight? Let him heal that hand and get stuck into the fitness work ahead of time. Or will that create the wrong kind of headlines and put him under more pressure? Im just struggling to see the true champion that he was (and I believe will be again) perform in this way... I cant believe this is good for him now...he's cooked. I pray for the day that he can run past butters after kicking a brilliant goal and give him back the mouthful he deserves.

Agree, I watched Clarry closely when he came to the bench. (i sit behind and above it). He looked absolutely cooked - more so than normal. So did Maxy

No one here is making excuses. None of us are capable of having an excuse because we aren’t running the club and didn’t participate in the game. We are looking at reasons. It’s quite different. No one here has any power over the result or the decisions made. It’s pretty straight forward. Stop having a crack at peoples “excuses” because you fancy yourself as some no nonsense, say it as I see it type.

Break time I reckon. People not attending the footy because Petty is playing forward. Possibly the dumbest thing I’ve read on here and there’s been some beauties over the last 20 years.

jesus wept worse excuse ever if he was playing forward and we were winning i bet you they would show up

I'm going to preface this by saying I love Clarry and I want the club to continue to back him and get him right over this off season. But seriously, if his hand is that cooked please please please just send him for surgery and focus on getting him super fit for 2025. There is absolutely no point in playing him these last two weeks and he is having zero impact on the game. I would rather we run with a Bailey Laurie, who was actually solid when he played a few weeks ago. Even play Kynan Brown in the forward line and play Neal-Bullen more midfield if required.

Remind me to come back to this forum, only when we start winning premierships please. 😮‍💨

No, he's cooked and would be paying him to be On the injury list 75% of the time

Bertie Beetle showbag for me!

I fear the club is panicking in its chase of a 28 year old HBF, especially when we’re crying out for young classy mids that will be available at our picks in the draft.

What, the team missing Georgiades, Soldo, Powell-Pepper, McKenzie and Jeremy Finlayson? Is that the team you’re talking about?

I don't always agree with you, but have always liked you as a poster, and most of the time you're constructive. I also think there's acknowledging factors that put together are not head in the sand, but legitimate for any analysis, but we've been there before, so I'll park it here.

great bump greatest ruckman the game has ever seen

Probably the second most important position at a club behind the head coach. Very good appt from the Hawks.

That's simply not true, Petty took JVR's stint in the ruck in the middle of the last quarter. Gawn had an extended rest in the 3rd quarter in preparation for doing much of the last quarter. Melksham was expected to do more but that's the life of the sub some times, you can't always come in and pick up the pace of the game no matter that you're fresh. If we subbed Fritsch people would ask why we subbed our best goal kicker. If we subbed Disco people would ask why we subbed the young guy who was clunking a few marks and making an impact across half forward.