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Just having another look at the replay - Petty's fourth goal after he was going back and forth, side to side, leaving the defenders guessing is just what we have needed in our forward line for ages. Movement +++. Let's hope that they can all learn from this and continue movement. For far too long our big forwards have appeared static just waiting for the bomb, and being spoiled in the contest.

No. Never. Under no circumstances.

Haha, youve had lots of appreciative plaudits from posters. 😀 'As for 'Jetsetting'. It is very unglamorous when a booking stuff up with time zones/dates results in missing an overnight stopover thus 40+ hours en route from my home to hotel in Glasgow. Then add lost luggage...which thankfully arrived a day later... ...as for icy Melb, midsummer Glasgow is damp and overcast just like midwinter Melb. On the bright side off to a Banksy exhibition shortly. I'm guessing most d'landers will need google for that one! Then shall enjoy travelling around Scotland for 3 weeks including a special young man's wedding, followed by a few days in Amsterdam.

Your questions and comments form a large part of our podcast. So thanks to theses posters this week that posted questions/comments. @3183 Dee @ElDiablo14 @DutchDemons @Bigfoot @demosaw @Tracforever @buck_nekkid @Travy14 @Singa @GOLORDIE @Redjacket @Supreme_Demon @Rossmillan @Clint Bizkit @Engorged Onion @Skrull @Hawny for Gawny @monoccular @Fat Tony @pewpewpew @Wells 11 @layzie @whatwhat say what @DemonicFinalFantasy @gOLLy @jane02 @Rhino @DeeZee @Jibroni @Rednblueriseing @Roost it far @Roo Beauty @Deeoldfart & @OhMyDees Don't forget to leave us a 5 Star Review on Apple Podcasts and write a review and we'll read it out on the show.

Where's the AFLPA in all of this? They should be as concerned as the AFL, if not more.

I saw this reported yesterday - and watched the clips of his speech to his teammates Could not have been a more timely, and frankly tragic, reminder of what is at stake here in terms the duty of care Port owes its players and the discussion as to whether Port breached that duty of care. A young bloke, who grew up dreaming of Brownlow's and flags has had those dreams shattered. In 20 years time, when Max is in his mid forties, not even Hawks fans will remember him. Hopefully his brave decision to retire now means he wont be still suffering in some way from the impact of his concussion, but there ain't no guarantees that will be the case. On that front, the AFL, the footy community and footy fans face a looming philosophical inflection point. In Max's Lynch's case he wisely accepted the medical advice and has decided to retire. What happens when a player rejects that advice and decides they want to play on? Paddy McCartin for example. Some might argue that every individual has that right. But should the AFL and/or clubs take that choice out of their hands? Where does the responsibility to protect an individual's health lie? As an employer, the AFL and clubs have a responsibility for the health and well being of its employees and for ensuring a safe working environment. But no matter what the AFL does moving forward to minimise and mitigate the risks of concussion there will always be players getting concussed.

Teams have been exploiting it against the Pies. It's why, for such a good team - and very much unlike us - they so infrequently blow other teams away. And also why they have been behind at 3 quarter time in 17 of their last 32 games. My take is the vulnerability has not been exploited (or discussed much - until now) more often for three main, interrelated, reasons. The first is they have been winning - an incredible record in home and away games in the in the last season and a half. Winning papers over a lot of cracks - as many DL posters noted about the dees in the first half of 2022 . Second, their last quarter record has been phenomenal. But again that ability to come from behind papers over a lot of cracks. On that point, a factor in their last quarter record is their deserved psychological edge they have in such situations - they expect to run over teams, and the oppo (and fans and their fan boys in the commentary box) do too. But if that bubble is burst they will lose that edge. They couldn't run us down and they couldn't run the blues down. They ran Port down, but maybe the comp is now looking at Port and wondering if they are that good after all. And third, their style of play, and ability to run over teams in the last, is built on phenomenal fitness and running power relative to the opposition. We saw on Sunday the advantage such relative fitness has when we completely ran the tigers into the ground - they just could not go with us. On SEN, Sanderson has been talking about the Pies fitness advantage all season (and the Crows too for that matter) and has all but said it makes them unbeatable. I have heard him 2-3 times compare their relative fitness and running power advantage to ours in 2021 (which he rightly says is why we dominated the finals series that year). But what's weird about that analysis is the implication the Pies will maintain that relative advantage to the end of the season - particularly the implication we won't close the gap. As we are starting to see, it's a complete nonsense. I think they have more elite aerobic runners. And across the board they are so quick over the ground. It's def their point of difference. And drives a really exciting brand of footy that everyone loves. We have fewer such aerobic runners (Nibbler, Spargo, Hunter and langers) but more elite power athletes (Tracc, Oliver, Viney, Salem, Sparrow). I would argue we have a better balance of athlete types for finals, but leaving that discussion aside, there is no way (assuming we have got our program right and don't have injuries) that come finals, the Pies will have a fitness edge over us - and increasingly perhaps not such an edge over other teams either (and it remains to be see if the Pies have got their fitness program right). Take that advantage away and the Pies come back to the pack.

I feel the same right now Macca. Up to this point the team has gone 46W 1D 16L in the H & A since 2021, almost 75% which is damn good. 3W 2L in finals. Our biggest loss in this period is 38 points including finals and we had a lead of almost 5 goals in that game. No team is perfect but one thing we do have, is the ability to be in every game for long periods of time. We don't panic when we are behind, we stick to our method and believe. A great sign against the Tigers came in the last 30 seconds, 4 goals up and Chandler refuses to rest, sprints 20 meters and chases down a Tiger. At the moment this team is showing me they will have a red hot crack at anyone in September.

Here’s the latest update from Norf. Not a lot of posts to choose from but hey ….. they’re totally [censored] up so that’s to be expected . ( Love it ) Here’s a couple of pragmatists “I've had tickets to fly down and watch this for a while. I am annoyed that there is a footy game scheduled at Bellerive for 1:10pm on Sunday August 6th as this could detract from my brewery and distillery visits.” There are so many better options to do on a Sunday at 12, and thus I shall indulge in them and not watch. Will be on here after to blame Mcdonald, who probably had another shocking game and shouldn’t be captain.” The optimists “I expect we’ll have some sort of rally. We’ll only lose by high double figures.” A smart [censored] "Hopefully Melbourne feel sorry for us , forget previous history and rest some good players. Dear Dees I hope we weren’t out of line by beating you about 19 times in a row “. This one might cause a few demonlander [censored] cheeks to tighten “I had the usual pre game v GoDees chat with my Melbourne supporting newsagents this morning, saying “you guys will rip is a new one this week” and they came back with their usual “these are exactly the type of games we usually lose!” They’re still scarred from being exactly where we find ourselves now, ever wary that the fall is just around the corner.”

Community service announcement. Times are tough. Since Kayo bills in advance, don't forget to cancel soon. Cheers.

And I'd add that there are mistakes and there are mistakes. Giving a free away for say having too many rotations is a mistake. As in the roos example from earlier in the year, it might cost a team a game. Bur something I haven't seen much comment on is the potential scenario of Allir copping another head knock when he went back on. He was all at sea for the rest of that game, and there was a huge risk of another head knock because he wasn't switched on i would have thought. So the mistake might have resulted in serious injury, or perhaps even forced retirement for Allir, as had just occurred for max lynch.

The doctor saying it was a “mistake” is such a cop out and smacks of a pattern of prior behaviour that escaped any serious scrutiny or challenge. The contemporaneous conduct of all those around the doctor at the time supports such a conclusion. When finally pulled up (and because it is so obvious) the doctor says it was a “mistake”. Puulleeese.

The point everyone (especially the media) seems to miss with the Grundy debate (and apologies if covered already but I can't read 122 pages of comments) and this may not be how it was envisaged when he was recruited but... Grundy's presence on our list whether it be to fill in when Max was injured or to share rucking duties with Max in games has allowed Max to get to round 20 in really good shape. He's fresh, not banged up like he was this time last year. If that allows Max to ruck solo for the rest of the season and have a dominant finals series then the investment in Grundy (who may not get another game in the period) has been worth every cent!

As with several others, this is the week to rest players as other tops sides have done when playing against West Coast or North. The game against Hawthorn (Rd 22) is too close to our finals bye, so this is our chance to rest old or sore legs - yes we finally have an ageing list - certainly we are not passed our window, but we do have 3-4 30yos or close to that number. To me the two who need a break more than anyone are Viney and May. Viney keeps having a pinched shoulder in collisions and a week of hard running should get him cherry ripe for finals. May has carried our defence and he's now well past 30 - he needs a breather before finals. Gawn can be rested, but surely it's better to just rest his workload during the game by bringing back Grundy to work in tandem with him for a week. We will need two rucks this week as North plays Goldy and Xerri. Woey unfortunately slips out as well, but the good thing is that he now has four games at AFL under his belt for him to work on for next year. Hibberd just has to play after his effort last week in VFL. So for me it's Out: Viney, May and Woewodin. In: Grundy, Sparrow and Hibberd. Tomlinson also should be out after last week, but with May rested, he has to remain in side this week.

Wasn't sure where else to post this so figured here. Did anyone else hear Daniel Hoyne from Champion Data talking about May? He noticed that this week May played higher up the ground, winning 43% of his possessions across half-back (his highest for the year) and 43% inside D50 (his lowest for the year). Noted that in Round 6 he took Riewoldt but this week we left that to Tomlinson and let May push higher up the ground. Do we think this is going to become a trend for us, or more of a one off? If the former, would support the idea that we're going to keep playing Tomlinson (at least so long as Petty stays forward).

When does the round 24 fixture times finally get announced? The game is on this month and still no news... I'm sure posters are planning their trips to Sydney and it would be handy to know when the game is on, and to organise tickets.

They got kicked out of the finals

I asked my Scottish neighbour about this and he said that there is nothing worn under his kilt. It's all in perfect working order, apparently.

I'm in the camp that would rather we use our 1st pick, Freo 2nd and our 2nd to try get Gold Coasts first. We can then take two top 10 picks to the draft. As mentioned before I would be surprised if we aren't interested in O'sullivan. 198cm key defender and a great replacement for May in 2-3 years time. Plus if we want to stick with the Petty/JVR forward combo moving forward it would be nice to have another gun key defender to replace petty.

I like to imagine that my $30 of Kayo is divided into $7 alimony for Jerry Hall, Wendi Murdoch, Anna Murdoch Mann and Patricia Booker, with the final $2 going to pay for when Tracc is on 360. It makes it much more palatable.

I have a strong suspicion that Max will not be rested/managed this week.

Absolute total balderdash. The protocol for concussions would be right at the front of mind in AFL briefings to these staff at the start of the season. Serious head collision occurs, perform the test, sit player out for 15 mins minimum. You don't even need to be a doctor to remember that.

Another outstanding podcast from the Demonland Podcast crew. Thank you. It is very evident that a lot of time and hard work goes in to the preparation of the show each week and I just want you to know that all that effort is greatly appreciated by this Dees fan. I have left a 5 Star Review for you boys on APPLE. It's the least I can do for a podcast that is now a staple of my footy week. Go Demons.

I somewhat accept what Cornes is saying. I don't think we should rush to hang their doctor over this mistake. As best we can, the focus should be on the club as a collective and not an individual. Having said that, it's a mistake that simply never should have been made. In 2023, with everything we're doing on concussion, with the focus, the lawsuits, the dozens of players who are forced to sit out games because they tackled a player dangerously even when that player had no issue, it is impossible to understand how Port Adelaide decided it was OK to not put those two players through full concussion tests. The AFL has to make a big example out of this. It has to be a massive punishment. Whether it's a fine as part of the soft cap, draft pick penalties, premiership points, whatever, it has to hit hard. The AFL needs to show itself outwardly to care and to signal to clubs that you can't get these things wrong.

Harmes goes out before Woey does. I’d even have Jordon out before Woey.

I feel seen

It's not the swarm that makes them vulnerable. We swarm too - it is at the heart of the method we adapted from the tigers (I dislike hardwick, but he deserves huge credit for changing how the game is played) - pressure and get numbers to the contest, win the ball and sweep forward in a rugby like line and have players run hard to get ahead of the ball to create options. The pies perhaps commit more numbers in that swarm, but what makes the pies vulnerable is the risks they take and their defensive system. They expose themselves to turnover because they flick it around trying to get the ball to the outside and when they get it outside take on high risk kicks - often into the corridor. Looks great when it works, but place the kicker under enough pressure and/or get numbers into the corridor and they turn it over, and often in very dangerous spots (and their handballs to feed it out can be turned over too). But it is the second vulnerability, very much interconnected with the first, that really hurts them. Their defensive lines pushes so high on transition, and in one flat line (ie no goal keeper) that when they turn the ball over they are at massive risks of goals out the back on the counter. That is all true of all teams using that swarm method, but our defensive sytem protects us on turnover. We have been experimenting with a similar approach to thstvof the pies in the last 3 games, which is a big reason why we have scored so much - but also why we have leaked so many goals. The dusty goal where he was left alone in the goal square was the perfect example. We rarely give up such goals. I'm sure we will revert back to something more like our normal defensive system come finals, including greater use of tempo (we saw a bit of borh in the second half against the tigers) - but the new normal will retain elements of the method we are experimenting with atm. We can play both styles. And a hybrid. Hard to see how pies can adjust theirs so late in the season given they havent experimented in games with alternative methods.

I reckon we’ll run over the top of Carlton and win by 5-6 goals. Sydney at the SCG is the danger game. And I think buddy not playing is a help to the swans rather than a hindrance.

Dunstan likely won't be retained, and it is plausible to think Harmesy will be looking for more regular playing time and a contract extension elsewhere. If the aforementioned players are playing elsewhere, and Jordon leaves via free agency we are looking very thin for depth when injuries occur. I wouldn't blame Jordon for looking elsewhere, but there is a role to play at the dees for him if he is willing to sit on the fringe and take opportunities when they are presented.

My preference is that we win the quarter final by 15 goals, the Prelim by 20, and then I get a shock mid grand final week phone call from Goody, whose been covertly studying my comments on Demonland, and wants my football nous in the box for the big dance. Then when accepting his Jock McHale medal Simon says he couldn’t do it without me, and gestures me on stage, where I politely decline the medal (I’m not a narcissist), thank all involved, and then turn to Basil Zempilas (whose inexplicably been flown in to MC the event) and scream at him ‘Now for [censored] sake Basil, let Simon say a few words’ before ushering Goody up to the microphone to FINALLY have his moment. That’s my preference.

No matter how much Hinkley carried on about "doing the right thing" by their players and "players come first", they have history here. How does the doc reviewing the video make a so called "error" when Aliir was clearly laying prostrate for at least 30 seconds plus AND only managed to get up with assistance from the 2nd Doctor attending him. By the way who was the 2nd doc?? Add to this the fact that he wasn't getting up of his own accord and was effectively encouraged and maneuvered by the attending Doc plus trainers to do so only AFTER Jones had sat up of his own accord with the assistance of Port's other Doctor? This is seriously as bad as it gets in terms of Port seemingly flouting and thumbing their nose at the protocols as far as Aliir was concerned. If the AFL attempt to sweep this one under the rug without a serious penalty they have rocks in their heads. It will come back to bite them big time if they don't bring the hammer down.

I'm a peaceful negotiator...well most of the time!

Let's see how dodgy the AFL are themselves are with how they handle this. You can't have this sort of thing happening and gotten away with yet rub players out for weeks for things like tackling techniques.

This is the type of game to keep Woey in

It's not a bad silver lining is it? I'm thrilled with JVR and looking forward to his development and improving further. I have watched the last couple Suns games and Mac is a very very exciting talent as well. He just coasts across the ground quicker than most and has a great leap marking at the highest point. I was suss on him being a top 5 pick but from what I have seen, I think he's going to prove his worth in time.

How is this story tracking - I've been away a couple of days, any heat from the AFL? The more I think about it the more I think Port have blatantly cheated here. No test for Aliir and Jones subbed off with a "migraine" reeks something dodgy. You could understand a tiny amount if one of those but not both together. I'm no lawyer nor know the exact rules but surely this is bringing the game into disrepute, ie; "abuse of position in order to obtain a benefit"? If the AFL are serious about their head injuries then I think a harsh penalty of a decent fine, stripped of the one game premiership points for which they have erred in and loss of draft pick. Either all 3 or a combination of 2.

IMO, 3-1 is the "likely" outcome. 4-0 is optimistic, 2-2 is pessimistic. I think @binman's take on our form is almost as good as it could possibly get, whilst some of what you've said here is unnecessarily negative. "Decimated" Adelaide? We played that game without the game's best midfielder and our best forward. I know Adelaide was missing Rachele, Laird and Doedee but with our outs as well, the gap wasn't really enough to make them "decimated" (they also proceeded to belt Port by 10 goals one week later so it's hardly like other clubs are finding it easy to beat that side). And focusing on "luck" against Brisbane and Adelaide is fair, because as I've argued all through Collingwood's 2022-23, you need luck to win close games (as well as skill). But it obviously also applies to Collingwood, and other sides who squeak through close games, such as GWS against us.

The Demons take to the skies again this weekend for their penultimate scheduled interstate trip of the 2023 football season. Hopefully, they will not only make the finals but also, that they will play their remaining games after that on the MCG — more about this in the weeks to come. The venue this week is Blundstone Arena, Hobart and the opposition is North Melbourne. Neither should really hold out much fear for a team that’s bound for a top four, possibly top two finish, but a professional team in an elite competition is expected to be just that - professional and respectful in the way they approach the game. Until very recently, the Kangaroos were consistently meting out volumes of on-field punishment upon their whipping boy, the Melbourne Football Club. For more than a decade from 2007 until early 2018, they held a winning record over the Demons in 17 consecutive contests including some real spankings. The did it because their team had more talent. Today, we expect nothing other than reciprocal treatment against an inexperienced North Melbourne which has been running on enthusiasm and youthful exuberance lately. They even forced a few finals contenders in the Swans, Bombers and Saints into close contests but last week, they hit the wall against West Coast at Optus Stadium. Admittedly, they fought their way back in the final term and came close to stealing victory but they were coming from a long way back which is unfamiliar territory when talking about a contest involving the Weagles. I doubt the return to head coaching duties of Alastair Clarkson will be enough to turn the tide for a team that is looking to offload some of its older players with an eye to the future. The reality is that youthful enthusiasm will be no match against a team that’s bound for the dizzy heights of the top end of the AFL ladder. Melbourne has for some time been considered among the competition’s leaders in terms of midfield depth and defensive power but last week against Richmond, its forward line was deadly in producing three players who between them kicked 14 goals straight without a blemish. And while I’m not expecting that accuracy to be repeated very soon, I do anticipate that the good folk of Hobart will be treated to a stellar exhibition of top level football from the talented and determined Demons notwithstanding the weather forecast that’s presently suggesting a 40% chance of rain. When the teams last met, the dominant players on the ground were Christian Petracca, Clayton Oliver and Bayley Fritsch (4 goals) and while two out of that trio are currently missing through injury, in their absence and in the absence of one or two other regulars, coach Simon Goodwin has subtly rejigged his lineup and allowed the vacancies to be filled by some emerging talent who are developing their craft to the advantage of the group. It’s that depth of talent at Melbourne that’s now coming to the fore at exactly the right time of the year and waiting to trap North Melbourne in its home away from home on the Apple Isle. I’m tipping the Demons to win by 50 points. THE GAME Melbourne v North Melbourne on Sunday 6 August 2023 at Blundstone Arena Hobart at 1.10pm HEAD TO HEAD Overall North Melbourne 82 wins Melbourne 88 wins 1 draw At Blundstone Arena North Melbourne 3 wins Melbourne 1 win Last five times North Melbourne 0 wins Melbourne 5 wins The coaches Clarkson 0 wins Goodwin 1 win THE LAST TIME THEY MET Melbourne 22.7.139 defeated North Melbourne 7.7.49 at the MCG, Round 7, 2023 The hapless Kangaroos were shell shocked by the heat of the Demons opening blitz. Alastair Clarkson was completely powerless to prevent the Demon tsunami which did not let up until the game’s dying moments. THE TEAMS NORTH MELBOURNE B A. Corr B. McKay J. Archer HB J. Goater T. Thomas L. McDonald C E. Ford L. Davies-Uniacke B. Scott HF C. Taylor D. Tucker J. Stephenson F W. Phillips N. Larkey P. Curtis FOL T. Xerri, H. Sheezel, J. Simpkin I/C T. Goldstein R. Hansen Jr K. Turner J. Ziebell SUB C. Lazzaro EMG B. Cunnington T. Powell L.Young IN C. Lazzaro OUT L. Young (omitted) MELBOURNE B J. Bowey S. May T. Rivers HB C. Salem J. Lever J. McVee C A. Neal-Bullen J. Viney E. Langdon HF A. Brayshaw J. Melksham J. Jordon F K. Pickett J. van Rooyen K. Chandler FOLL M. Gawn C. Petracca L. Hunter I/C J. Harmes H. Petty J. Smith T. Sparrow SUB M. Hibberd EMG B. Grundy C. Spargo A. Tomlinson IN M. Hibberd T. Sparrow OUT A. Tomlinson (omitted) T. Woewodin (omitted) Injury List: Round 21 Tom Sparrow - Calf | Test Clayton Oliver - Hamstring | 1 - 2 Weeks Tom McDonald - Ankle | 1 - 2 Weeks Kye Turner - Groin | 1 - 2 Weeks Bayley Fritsch - Foot | 3 - 4 Weeks Daniel Turner - Hand | 3 - 4 Weeks Blake Howes - Hand | Season Oliver Sestan - Elbow | Season

That will still take you 3 days of that. 🤣

Thank you. The caricatures in the logo were designed by Sports Berzerk. You can check out his stuff here: Instagram Facebook He's a hardcore Dees fan so you can help him out by purchasing some his artwork here: Sports Berzerk Store

Losing mentality is losing mentality. Nothing else.

Wow LH Holidaying in Glasgow... Not sure what to say Bloody hot here on the equator..... ice in one's vodka and tonic quickly disappears and the local whisky is terrible Enjoy yourself

Great show this week guys. The two and half hours flew by on my commute from London to Frankfurt and back for work. A big thank you on behalf of those half a world away with no other source of Demon-centric analysis. Love the new logo too.

My preference is we play North Melbourne and then West Coast at the MCG.

A few reasons why I want us to annihilate North with no mercy: Boomer Harvey running amok against us for 20 b****y years straight David King The brilliant but horrible Alistair Clarkson This rabble of a club having a dedicated home base and we don't

We are finishing second. Port or Brisbane at the G will be fine.

Yeah, just saw that his op has 32 +'ve reactions which i suppose is a reasonable tally; for a sub... ...i suspect he is feeling most pleased with himself... LOL! Given last week's loud protests to volunteer for this gig, i was shocked, shocked to see it was @Bitter but optimisticwho started the thread!! Some negotiations may need to be had when i return...🙃

Personally, i'm in the managing players camp. As Demon Dynasty notes, any best 22 player managed won't be doing any resting. Like Smith doing laps after the Tigers game, they will still have to the ks they would have otherwise done in the match. But the advantage is they don't have to be on and off a plane, or stay overnight in a hotel. And the risk of injury is much, much lower (ie no risk of impact injury). And perhaps even more importantly they don't have to worry about post match recovery (eg from bumps, bruises and soreness) interfering with their prep and program heading into the challenging - and likely super critical (re chances of top 20 - Blues game. They also get a chance to freshen up mentally - which might benefit some players. Get the load without the risk. There is another important element too i reckon - its give the club the opportunity to reward players at Casey for good form and/or give some young player some exposure at AFL level. And given any player coming in will have a specific role in the system, they get chance to practice that role at AFL level, (which might useful in the even we cop some some injuries ahead of finals) and that mitigates some of the downside of new players coming in And potentially a couple of fresh, motivated players who want to impress might actually help us put the Roos to the sword.

Understand the caution of anointing Harry the Petty as the new forward King. But the orthodoxy of the thinking that in the Demon Kingdom, the cupboard was bare of ready made talent. Seemed so, as the old loyal standard bearers Sir Tom the ‘Tormented’ and Sir Ben the ‘Banged Up’, are beginning to seriously fray at the edges like over loved Paddington bears. Is now suddenly turned down side up, as Harrison appears not unlike the metamorphosis of Wart in The Once and Future King, to take hold of the reigns of the power forward. Thrusting the pretenders out of the spotlight as he takes centre stage. An auspicious and promising performance 🎭. Time and opportunity will of course test this hypothesis, of an up and coming footballer on the threshold of the Neitz line.

Unfortunately, North have nobody else to blame but themselves. They make their players unhappy. They make their coaches unhappy. They are crippled by an old boys network full of folksy wisdom about 'young people these days'. I really feel for the fans and for the slice of genuine professionals inside the club who I'm sure are clinging on trying to do things the right way against constant pushback. However, let's remember they they've still got four more years of misery to push through before their pain can be fairly compared to what we went through as a club. On our timeline, we hadn't even started the Neeld era yet.