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Great post TK, many thanks. You def get votes for the inaugural binman's track watcher of the year award for going to the effort of timing the 2k trials. Kudos. The drills you highlight are really interesting. Both are more evidence that Goody is well and truly open to learning from other teams. The focus on hitting short targets under pressure is great to see because this was a really big issue for us last season. There was a lot of focus on inside 50 entries, but i reckon a bigger issue for us last year was missing short targets in our defensive half of the ground when under intense pressure (and sometime under zero pressure - Steve May says hi). Those missed short kicks don't get the attention that missed kick inside 50 get but have a bigger impact in my opinion (because the latter might cost us an immediate shot at goal, whereas the former might result in an opposition goal AND might cost us a goal because a potential scoring chain has broken down. And to boot, a turnover in our defensive half cedes territory, whereas with a missed kick inside 50 we still have a decent chance of trapping it in our forward half). As i have banged on about over the years, we have way too many players with poor kicking skills. I suspect this is the key reason we moved Hunty on. Pressure (and fatigue for that matter) exacerbate poor technique, so its great to see they are specifically focusing on this skill. The Swans have a number of players who are above average kicks and don't cede too many easy turnovers with missed short kicks in defence. Same goes for the pies. Nick Daicos is close to the best proponent of that critical short kick in the AFL (Daniel probably has him covered - just - it's crazy to think Daicos is so young given how important h was for the pies last season - he is sure to find it harder next year as teams will put a lot of work into him, you'd think). And i reckon the cats also have us well and truly covered for kicking skills. So, three of our key rivals last season had a distinct advantage over us in terms of missing fewer short kicks under pressure. That said, we really missed a fit and firing Salem last year - an issue that was made worse by Bowey dropping form and then being dropped. If you take Bowey and Salem out of our back half, who else in that unit could be relied on to hit 75% plus percent of short targets? The other interesting drill is the one where players 'lead far and wide, especially back into the open spaces of the forward line towards the goal square'. This perfectly describes the method used by the cats last season - one of only a handful of key differences between our method and the one they pivoted to last season (which was ours basically). The method was super effective for the Cats, in large part because it really suited the players they have. It allowed Cameron to play high up the ground, basically as a half forward flanker, and use his beautiful long left foot kick to advantage. And if he isn't delivering it inside 50, Cameron has the athleticism to run towards goal from outside 50 and get separation, the skill to mark the ball as he runs with the flight of it, and of course the skill to finish. Creating space inside 50 also increases the likelihood the Cats can engineer a Hawkins one on one - which is smart as he is the best one on one mark in the AFL in my opinion. That space also really helped Tyson Stengle as he was able to use his ball winning skills, one on one ability and pace to great effect. Fritter, and perhaps Schache (coincidentally both left footers like Cameron), have a similar athletic profile and skill set to Cameron, so i could see both playing a similar role. In Kozzie, we have a player who can play the Stengle role. I'm not sure we have a Hawkins equivalent (who does?). I would say, of our forwards, Fritter is our best one on one mark, but obviously he doesn't have Hawkins' sheer strength. Perhaps not for the next couple of seasons, but ultimately i think JVR will be our Hawkins. Watching JVR live, you can see he is a natural forward like Hawkins in that his first instinct is to get optimal body position against his opponent to control the drop zone. And he looks bloody strong now, so in 2 or 3 seasons he will be a beast.

I spoke to someone who played footy at a much higher standard than me and I said something similar about Max playing behind the ball. He said that he did that role for one year and it nearly finished his career as he was continually hit from behind by large forwards. He said it shortened his career. I agree that Max plays the role very well, but I also want him playing in 3 or 4 years' time. I fear if we make him play this role he won't. The proposition that Goodwin won't play Max behind the ball "just to prove he's boss" is so silly it barely warrants comment, but I have because the continual sledging of Goodwin, who managed to get us to second on the ladder at the end of the H&A season, is just tiresome.

at least he can always look back on the day he kicked 6 on me in a schoolboys game in 2018 and smile

I got down to training today. We settled on the fence. Choco Williams came over for a chat. My two boys played soccer with Leo and Bella McDonald, kids of Tom. It was good to be back. There was no Oliver, Petty, Pickett or Lachie Hunter today. Goody and Ooze were MIA. Troy Chaplin seemed to be calling the shots. Kye Turner and Kynan Brown (son of Nathan) joined the main group. Trent Burgoyne was on a modified program. Joel Smith and Andy Moniz-Wakefield were in re-hab. Gus Brayshaw did a lot of things with the main group, but is on some sort of modified program. James Harmes was wearing a green hat signifying that he was a ‘non-contact’ player. First up was the dreaded 2km time trial. The players were split into 4 groups of similar running ability. The two more able groups went first. Adam Tomlinson led the top group from start to finish, looking very fit in beating home Nibbla in second place. JJ came third, closely followed by Ed Langdon. For those interested in times, I timed the third group. Rick Lever won this group in a time of 6:30, Bailey Laurie not far behind him in 6:36. Josh Schache won the big fella’s group, ahead of a fast finishing Gawn. Ben Brown really impressed me. He hammered home behind Max and looked the best he has since late 2021. Brodie Grundy seemed to labour, which is not surprising considering his injury problems. The young blokes struggled. Will Verral in particular, took over 8 minutes to complete his 2kms and he had Jack Viney for company on his last lap, with Vin yapping to him the whole way home. The warm up drills were focused on quick ball movement and hitting short targets under pressure. One ball movement drill I found fascinating was red v whites. The whites (defenders) would move the ball up the line. The reds would receive the ball at half back and sling shot the ball forward through quick hands and feet into the corridor. The forwards would all set up high across half forward. They would then lead far and wide, especially back into the open spaces of the forward line towards the goal square. There were no indiscriminate kicks inside 50. Each kick, be it long or short, was towards a leading Brown, McDonald or Fritsch, mostly moving back into an empty forward zone. This was very different to our long kicks into pockets last year. I won’t ramble any further. I’m happy to answer any questions.

Come on Picket Fence, your blatent bias against Spargo ignores the fact he has created a lot of scoring opportunities in the last couple of years and is probably our best kick inside 50. Spargs was down last year on his 2021 season, but is still above Chandler in the pecking order. Time will tell, but I'm personally more focused on score assists than who kicks them. I hear players in interviews going on about trusting the process, maybe we should too

FWIW, Toby Bedford won the 2k time trial at GWS training yesterday.

How did he go in the other 3 quarters after you were moved off him?

I'm with you Monbon. I have never been more optimistic before a season than this year. Many reasons for that, but I ssupect even the players know they faded in finals for probably health reasons, and that a Flag is there to be won this year.

Theres far too many Birkenstocks on display here for my liking.

Um, and I emphasize, um, I am getting a 'vibe' that the sins of 2022 have been addressed by both the recruiters and the sheer luck of injury incidence. Fingers crossed the latter continues, and I feel so much for Sean's son who seems to have been cursed... The vibe I am getting is similar to the Richmond response to falling after premiership success. Posters have mentioned Griffith and his 'sins' compared to his 'defector', but in the end, injury management is a contest between the gods and sheer natural serendipity. Touch wood, the tea leaves seem benign at the moment. Long may they continue to fall this way. More than that, the vibe from the players feels better than at any time in my long years as a Melbourne supporter.

Totally agree, Gawny had to really work to get to the rights spots when in marking duels today, and visa versa for Grundy. Really interesting to watch, the way they would try different tactics such as, make body contact early and push, or hang back a few steps so the other couldn't see them, or dance around from one side to the other, hoping for the advantage. I find all the work that many of the players are doing with each other, is inspiring. Many are passing on knowledge, I can see them talking extensively between drills. We really have a great culture that way. There is also plenty of banter and pseudo aggression as they gee each other up. Support, encouragement and competitiveness. Addit: Seems JVR is learning Fritch's leading patterns (always finding a step ahead, and led into lovely pockets of space with different angles). Both looking very good. Some of Bailey's snaps today were beautiful.

Confirmed. Training will be at Gosch’s Paddock at 9:30am Wednesday 11th January 2023. If you are attending we would very much appreciate a report. I’ll post links to all the reports in this post. WAYNE WUSSELL'S TRAINING REPORT DEELIGHTFULPLAY'S TRAINING REPORT DEESPENCER'S TRAINING REPORT SLARTIBARTFAST'S TRAINING REPORT DEMONWHEELS' TRAINING REPORT KEV MARTIN'S TRAINING REPORT GEORGE ON THE OUTER'S TRAINING REPORT DEESPICABLE'S TRAINING REPORT OLD DEE'S TRAINING REPORT

Mutiple good points sb. The best rucks of the 70s - Teasdale, Round, Len Thompson and my personal favourite Gary Dempsey, all dropped back a kick behind play 'into the hole' in defence heaps of time in each match. Par for the course. And got smashed from pillar to post every single game. Brutal. Whilst plenty of ruckman since the 70s have copped lots of treatment, head knocks and big hits, none copped the consistent shellacking the players mentioned above copped week in week put. With one exception. The treatment maxy has copped in the last two seasons, and in particular in 2022, has been shameful -and he doesn't even drop back as often as Dempsey et al. So many hits to the head. So may huge body checks and being cannoned into. I reckon it goes unnoticed by non dees fans because Max hardly ever retaliates or remonstrates. It infuriates me. I really hope the club has a quite word in the off season to the AFL and umpires. Maxy deserves more protection. So, I'm with you sb. The last thing I want us maxy to sit in the leading lanes down back and provide opposition forwards and resting rucks the perfect opportunity to do more damage. In some ways Jackson leaving might be a blessing in disguise because Grundy can give him a proper 50 50 chop out from the get go and allow maxy to play forward

Mrs Dw spoke to him at the B&F and he was devastated, he didn't want to leave. When you say "moved on" what happens at a season end exit interview is the Club thanks you for your contribution but says your manager should explore your options. There is no nice way to do this but there is a respectful way. For the record; I would have kept him and not JS however age may have been a factor.

You could well be right, but my sense was we encouraged him to 'explore his options'. Which is code for moving a player on. I concede i might be imagining that, but if we were keen to keep him we would have done so.

Birkenstocks will, in many cases, fix and/or prevent planta fasciatis. Thongs should be banned from any player use. Worst footwear possible.

He does have a pretty good sense of humour and doesn't take himself very seriously. A refreshing change from a lot of the ex-footy player turned journalists who write as though they are THE authority on the game.

@DeeSpencer@Go the Biff@layzie@Clintosaurus@titan_uranus@Gorgoroth@Dr. Gonzo@DemonDave@JV7@Dee Zephyr Schedule Week 1 Playoffs Sun 8.30am Seattle @ San Francisco Sun 12 15pm Chargers @ Jacksonville Mon 5.00am Miami @ Buffalo Mon 8.30am NY Giants @ Minnesota Mon 12.15pm Baltimore @ Cincinatti Tues 12.15pm Dallas @ Tampa Bay Chiefs & Eagles bye More later but the post season tipping comp works as follows (by the way, newcomers are most welcome) Just post up your scores or just the winners with a margin of victory e.g Miami 15 Buffalo 23 or Buffalo win by 8 (or 7 - 12) Week 1 - each win (home or away) is worth a point with a bonus point added (for each match) if your margin of victory correctly falls within one of the winning 3 brackets (1 - 6, 7 - 12 or 13+) Week 2 ... 2 points per win with 2 bonus points available for each of the 4 games Week 3 ... 3 points per win with 3 bonus points on offer for both games Super Bowl ... 5 points for the win with 5 bonus points on offer A second chance at glory after most of us had a disastrous regular season at tipping!

Reading all these training reports it's hard to see us not win the premiership.

He seems like a really nice guy. No wonder Collingwood wanted him gone.

Players were out early doing some stretches, light kick to kick and a few of the boys were doing goal kicking where they ran between a line of poles on each side of them and kicked over a metal "man" for goal. The standout was Oliver Sestan who is a beautiful kick for goal. Tmac, Melk and KFW were others doing this drill. They then broke into groups for the 2 Km time trial. A number of different groups started from different parts of the ground and they didn't finish where they started so it was hard to tell who "won". After the time trial they then went into the drills described by DeeSpencer. Players to impress me today were Bowser who looked really good and kicked the ball beautifully, Kade Chandler who was in everything and also kicked very well for goal, Seston who did well in the drills and again kicked very well for goal and Tmac who was moving really well and was very clean with his marking.

Thanks Lord Nev, on bestowing your 961st facepalm upon me (I'm sensing a theme here 🤔) I believe a prize should go to the 1000th which shouldn't be to far away. I'm certainly going to give it a crack.

There's been some great ruckman over the last 50 years. Big Dean Cox easily one of the best. Dempsey, Madden, Nichols and Farmer top shelf as well. Our bloke easily sits comfortably in this company.

FMD !! When I saw the thread title , I first thought of that dirty knee raising septic tank, who is not worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Max. However, the bloke above is - a great player. The stats do, however, support my contention ( as stated previously, many times, on "land) that Max is the best ruckman I've seen in my many decades of following footy.

So, Kangaroos it is.

I think it's fair to say we were keen to keep him...but not at the price WCE was prepared to pay. I'm sorry to see him go, but also understand that we have a salary cap to maintain. We don't want to be in the positions that Collingwood, Gold Coast and others have been in where good players have been lost because of salary cap/list mismanagement. In fact, I'd go as far as saying it's closer to a win-win than any other combination. Hunt gets a better deal and we aren't forced to overpay for a player.

Panic merchants?? Two years in a row the meanest defence in the league?!!!!

Agree, I think we the fans (or maybe just me) also are/ am taking a bit of a reset this year. 2021 was special. Felt early on in the season that we were real contenders. Loved the whole season for obvious reasons. Expectation in 2021 was that we’d go back to back at the G. Turned out to be a most nervous and frustrating season being a supporter. Many reasons, pressure of being the hunted, injuries, connectivity with forwards, supporter negativity syndrome, to name a few. This year I would like to think that with a bit of luck we could win the minor premiership and then the big one. Realistically would accept top two finish and to be considered serious contenders. Failing that, top four finish and contenders. Failing that, top eight finish and making up numbers wouldn’t cut it for me. Finishing outside the eight, unthinkable. I am looking forward to experiencing an exciting 2023 following the Dees🤞

That be Bulldogs and Norf's domain.

Well, they do play for the dees.

They might not be pretty, but for athletes who value their feet, they are probably the best 'open' shoe option they can wear. Sure beats thongs.

Yes been meaning to sign up and finally did, would love to have a yarn in a pub with this bloke.

He seems to really have bought into the club, which is great to see. Always admired his work-ethic at the Pies, love him even more now he’s a Dee.

Agree, I think McVee, Turner, Howes, JVR and even Jefferson and Woewodin. Chandler looks like he will do just about anything to get a run. With so many ready to go recruits, Schache, Grundy, Hunter plus a few experienced (Melksham was looking good) and 2 to 4 year players on the periphery, there will be plenty of pressure for positions. Still think we will blood a few this season. We ran out of steam last year. Hoping we rest the not quite right players.

Exciting to hear positive reviews re Jefferson & Howes

He was one who was a bit fumbly, though he was getting to the right places in sims. He was also looking stronger and heavier, maybe more muscularity. Was able to break tackles with straighter running. I can see him doing more in and under work.

Time trial day. Tough day for it given the heat and dryness. Tomlinson killed it, looked like ANB might burn him after he passed him 400 out, Adam was having nothing of it. Jack Viney the other stand out, also got around his players afterwards, and supported Verral who really struggled. Ben Brown was running very well, almost caught Gawny. Grundy was a bit slower than what I expected. A few absentees, Petty, Oliver, Pickett, and Hunter. I wasn't sure if Burgoyne (43) was there. A run on a player with 33 on his back looks like him. Light duties included, May, Harmes, D.Smith and Brayshaw. Poor old J.Smithy, in rehab mainly by himself. Appeared to be lower back/left hip problems. Moniz-wakefield also rehabbing. No kick to Kick, to start, but into drills where they have cross angles and move around each other. First with handballs, then with kicking. They use a variety of movement, with the last formation being schimmys and movement to four points with some defensive pressure. They're into sims with two groups, not much tackling First group start with a scramble kick out of the backline and a coach brings the ball to ground, and they swoop outside the 50 and create a delivery inside the 50. The other group kicks a long ball out of the backline, to the talls competing, which then gets moved back to the forwards. A few of the players rotated through the different styles. Into two groups talls and smalls. The talls do one on one marking, and the smalls tackling each other. The tackiling had some competitive vibe added to it. The goal kicking drills were performed in a completely different way. The alley is formed between the stakes and a body model that is kicked over. One on each side of goal at about 35°. Williams stands behind the model and gives them immediate feedback. Mainly about the ball drop, how straight it is and where the foot contacts the ball. He knew if the kick was goaled or not, even without looking. It was the most accurate kicking I have seen at training. Keep it up Chocco. After the goal kicking, they went to 8 repetitions of about 150 meter runs. The last three to leave were, Tracc, Viney and BBB, using the Williams method and with his feedback to get the set goal kicking right. Good start to 2023, they looked sharp and the noise volume was encouraging. Appeared happy to be back into "it'. Addit: I didn't see Hibbo get attention. My thought was he was back to full training. Hope it is not that niggling calf/achilles. Tough Kent's Training Report

Keep an eye on Howes. Chrissy drink with a mate who socialises with Taylor and asked me what I thought of Howes. Jason believes he is a super talent and will make an impact. An unfortunate foot injury prevented him from being on track to debut last season.Track watchers, I welcome your reports

Great report JVR with out a hair cut in Pettys number took me a while to realise who it was. Max was taking great marks in the forward line but he’s kicking worries me After the drills at the end of the session they did some running and Benny brown, Jefferson and Kyah Farris-White led the way. Was really surprised after the session they had and everyone else looking cooked. One stage Farris-White led by about 10 metres from The group. Pig pulled out of the running towards the end with some sort of complaint Really liked the way Rivers was training also. Seems to have some spark back.

The 4 unsighted Kozzy, Petty, Hunter and Oliver . Lots of players in different numbers making it confusing. Brayshaw mostly doing some kick to kick and repeat jogging with Adams and Verrell. May and Harmes were in more drills then pulled out for light stuff. Burgoyne, Deak and Joel Smith on light duties. Joel did some solid repeat sprints. AMW on the watt bike. For a solid period they split in to 3 groups. Group A did a drill from the half forward flank working through token pressure 4 on 1 to then hit up 2 leading forwards v 2 defenders with another defender dropping back covering leading lanes. Some good hit up kicks in this. The other 2/3rds rotated through a bigger drill using about half the ground. A long kick out of the backline went to the 2 rucks (Max and Grundy had some good marking contests) from which the emphasis was on super quick transition back inside 50 and using the switch or diagonal as much as possible. T Mc, Brown, Schache, JVR all prominent. It wasn’t even numbers or full pressure but the speed on the ball from the mids/backs/high half forwards was really impressive. Some nice kicks to leads and up over the defenders too. JVR had a ball bounce off his hands and Jefferson arced across from his own lead, swooped on the crumb to gather it in the air, straightened and finished with ease. It was a bit like a taller right footed Fritsch with the touch of class. Kynan Brown looked comfortable mixing it in traffic and like he has some zip in close. Kye Turner looks a similar size to our other tall backs, seems to have good athleticism and didn’t do anything that stood out too much. But the defenders weren’t tasked with any true competitive drills. I noticed a couple of very clean Bill Laurie moments and he’s certainly changed his shape. Howes had a beautiful spearing kick to Ben Brown’s chest at one stage too. Slartibartfast‘s Training Report Kev Martin’s Training Report Tough Kent's Training Report

Yep, at worst he blocks space...less room for forwards to lead for the chip pass. Most likely pressure up the ground will see more get out of jail kicks which we can pick off.

It seemed to me that opposition teams were finding ways to NOT bomb long into their F50. I.e lots of chip and run type entries to undo the influence of May and Lever and break up our structure. Does Gawn playing back really add that much more? Its a genuine question not a statement. I just cant quite get my head around where to get the most out of him when he's not rucking.