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To be fair to Dunstall, he is a fat 54 year old.

The season is now officially shot. We cannot even technically make finals. Everything is about planning for next year. At least we have found that Petty can take a strong contested mark and is only 19. His performance yesterday was revelatory. He could develop into anything. Also we have found Hore who has become a key part of our remade back half. Then there is Baker who has some serious pace and dash as he showed in the twos yesterday where he was a class above. And that's without counting Lockhart who is developing nicely. There have been some gains amid the injury carnage. The rest of this year has to be viewed as an extended preseason for 2020. Look at it through that lens rather than what might have been if the footy gods had been kinder.

Oliver should have kicked the goal. Brayshaw shouldnt have called for it. It was real smart alec stuff, those 2 think sharing the ball is fun,, like the Cats used to do, except they would win games, and premierships .Oliver is a very good player, but he wont be a great player unless he adds goal kicking to his arsenal.

It's tough at the moment. If we're being honest we are an average side that is playing some pretty average footy. After last season it can be a bitter pill to swallow. However, this is not 2013. This is not a list where we are going 'who are the good players and how the hell are we going to improve?' This is a list that has been smashed from pillar to post and we've never really gotten out of the starting gate. Look at the side we had in yesterday. We are still missing some quality players - Tom Mac, Jake Melksham, Vanders and Marty Hore come to mind. We have players who had off season surgery and it took them weeks to get going. We still have players in the side who have had long stints on the sidelines and are clearly down on fitness and form (Lever, Jetta, Hannan etc.). We are also playing blokes who are showing something but don't have the consistency to perform week in, week out (Petty, Lockhart, Dunkley, Preuss). Then, on top of that, we are forced to play blokes who are either on their last legs (Jones, Lewis) or who shouldn't have any business being in the side to begin with (ANB). Add it all up and you get the season we're having. To me it's an anomaly - we have been building well since 2015. It's not as if we stunk it up and then pulled 2018 out of the bag. It's been quite the opposite. There are clear reasons why this season has been a failure, but this time we have the personnel to turn it around quickly. We aren't relying on a Matt Jones or Dean Terlich to finish Top 5 in our B&F. Not only that, but the holes in our side are clear - we could use more support for Tom Mac up forward, although the hope is that Weideman kicks on in 2020, and we know that we need some small forwards to support that. We could also use a little more pace in midfield. But these are fixable issues if we make the right moves. We don't have 5 or 6 half decent players and the rest are terrible. That couldn't be further from the truth. Again, this season has been tough to watch, but it's not the end of the world. Far from it. We can turn things around very quickly IF we do the right things over pre-season, such as who we draft and trade in to the club, and hopefully we don't have another awful run with injuries. I have no doubt that we'll bounce back in 2020.

You can add that Frost has become a much more reliable defender, although we know he will provide a "what the..." moment in every game. And Salem has become more consistent.

A close loss like this one can make you lose context so here's some balance: we went into this game without a key forward and relying on a 7-game novice defender to substitute for a 150 defender-turned-forward who had just struck from the previous two weeks. Our developing forward was also missing taking out seven goals form last week's total. Our defence looked good on paper but Lever and Jetta, Nev especially, were underdone. Criticism of their selection is misplaced however. They are part of our long term backline and the sooner they are alongside May and Hibberd to develop an understanding on one another's games the better for next year and beyond. We need them playing together. That was as bad as Nev has ever been but his upside will come with match fitness. Despite some absolutely horrendous umpiring decisions that hurt us we were right in this game. Fritsch (and May) cost us with that last quarter miss but his snaps earlier gave us two goals of a sort we have not been able to find this year. The sooner he is released forward the better. May's determination to take the game on late was brilliant despite his missed shot. He is going to be great value. And finally, we were playing the Dogs who have finals pretensions (probably misplaced) on their preferred deck. Play that elsewhere and umpiring included we still win. They will point to their third quarter misses for what might have been but we matched them for that by game's end. There was more to like about that game than dislike given our injuries and underdone returning players. Come draft time we might reckon it's a good one to lose although I can see the Blues having only two more wins - the Suns and Saints.

He's also 23, so I reckon hold off for now.

I actually thought the biggest mistake in that chain was that the handball existed in the first place. Oliver should have taken the first option, which was to kick the Sherrin in to the second tier in between the tall sticks. Who handballs from 40 when open and charging towards the goals?

If you keep talking rubbish it does not make it true. When will you get it through your head that Hogan wanted to go home. He would have gone this year for nothing, we got something that got us May. That is not peanuts. May gives everything and cares for the MFC, Hogan moved on years ago, time you did too.

I've been a supporter but ANB is useless at the moment. Terrible disposal, not a quick thinker and constantly putting teammates under pressure. Depth player at best at the moment.

This has been the year from hell, with a terrible pre-season, consistent injuries and extremely poor form resulting in the disaster we have right now. My silver lining: - Marty Hore looks a solid player - Oskar Baker could be a great wing option - Harry Petty looks to be a great key position prospect at just 19 - Hunt has got back in some good form - We will most likely have a pick between 2-4 - We will get an easier draw next season We better put any players with niggling injuries in for surgery early so we can actually get a full pre-season or I'll be [censored].....

Been way too long since this thread was updated and I'm sure there are a few that have been missed in between, yesterday's effort deserves to be recorded. The quote it's self wasn't so hilarious, but the context of the contemptuous way it was delivered to the offending umpire makes it worthy: "That’s ruck craft, big boy"

Appalling decisions. Made more ridiculous by the fact that if a bigger opponent was rucking against him there is zero chance either of those decisions would have been paid. Ruck man have been do that for 150 years. As Maxy said #itsruckcraftbigboy

So just his age has changed since his playing days.

With the team struggling Oliver's flaws have been exposed. His insistence to handball at all costs has gone from a quirky habit to a flat out detriment to the team. His contested stuff is always going to be great but unless this changes he is never going to be truly elite. He has all the ability to be the superstar but he's holding himself back

End of last year, Gus had a back problem which prevented him from doing much pre Xmas training and the traditional family Xmas day 100 x 100 with his brothers. Can't recall the exact time but it he didn't start preseason training until sometime in January. Back problems can come and go so wouldn't be surprised if that is the issue. It could also be why he is not in the middle - to protect his back from the rough and tumble of congested football. He is slow and struggles to get low to pick up the ball - also signs it could be a back issue. He looks tired but not disinterested. EOS can't come quick enough for the many that are battered and bruised in our team.

The umpire in question is Dalgleish, dumb umpiring and no feel for the game. A Western Australian who supports the Eagles. You may remember we had him and Margetts ( another WA boy) against the Eagles on their turf this year. Hope we don't get them this week against the Eagles.

Thought Salem was fine. Had it 25 times and a dozen contested.

In the words of the great man “it’s ruck craft big boy”

Thanks guys. Do you really think there was a push? Personally I don't think so. Yes there's blocking, as there is in every ruck contest, because essentially that is the contest. Both players are trying to maintain the best position to tap the ball, by blocking their opponent out of that best position. The point is, there's nothing in the laws of the game about having a straight arm is there? It's a ruling (I don't use the term interpretation) that's been invented by the umpires so they can apply it whenever they feel like it. It isn't a rule. They only apply it to one player in particular.

I counted three marks Preuss dropped that he had clean hands on. He’s almost there, but he’s not there yet. Also, Gawn was ineffective when not in the ruck, so in effect by playing both, we’re robbing Peter to invest in virtual currency. I’d drop Preuss for the time being. The clear focus for him is to work on his marking - around the ground and when sneaking forward. It’s what he needs to be able to do if he wants to ruck in tandem with Gawn in the long run.

Did you notice the handball that Gus received from Clarry before he got run down in the tackle? It was a looping, slow handball that Gus had to check his pace to receive, opening the way to be caught by Dunkley. If Clarry had put a bullet handball and Gus could run onto it, there would have been no tackle, and probably a goal. It is a million moments like these that are costing us in every game. Like the bomb kicks into forward 50, like the way we get sucked en masse into contests and the opposition run around the outside, those over-the-head-to-no one handballs, the giraffe kicks not to advantage.....We are putting in loads of effort, but it must be so disheartening when stupid errors make it meaningless.

Had more tackles today than all of Jetta, Lockhart, Gus, ANB, Fritsch, Hannan, Dunk, Hibberd, Preuss, May, Salem, Lever and Jones. Wouldn't confuse 'not chasing' with just being slow. Also had more clearances than anyone aside from Oliver, and the most centre clearances for the whole team. Not saying he was BOG or anything, but the bloke has 4 flags that say he knows about "winning culture". That's 4 more than our whole club has won for 55 years.

This is on the Club BB. It needs to get serious. Compile a series of incidents such as this one, as well as all the holds, over the shoulders etc and take it to the AFL for a "please explain!??" Why Max is being unfairly targeted/penalised for so called "straight arm block" such as this (which was a pretty feeble extended arm & hardly a straight one anyway!) but on the flip side the frees that are clearly there "for" are mostly being ignored. He is so dominant in most matches i get the feeling the umps are actively (among some of them) umpiring his impact out of the match to the favour of the opp in order to even out matches he is involved in. It's now on the FD & Club to grow a pair and officially raise it with the AFL. We also need to raise the incident by whoever the umpire was today (Dalgleish?) who, in response to a "no prior" call from one of our boys to another who copped a holding the ball decision, said ... "it doesn't matter". Since when do the rules of the game "not matter"?? Only when it's us on the receiving end maybe for this ump??

So what's the rule? Preventing the opposition ruckman from getting to the contest? Ok, so at a centre bounce, how many players are allowed to play the ball? 2 At around the ground throw-ins/ball-ups, thanks to new rules of the game, how many players are allowed to play the ball? 2 So it's pretty clear these instances are a 1 on 1 contest. So once the ball is bounced, thrown up, thrown in, or whatever, it is now a contest between 2 players. How can an umpire rule that 1 of those players is preventing the other from contesting the ball? It is in fact already a contest between the 2, it is on, it is happening, they are both there, contesting. This incorrect ruling, note, it is not in fact a rule, needs to be booted this year while, well, we suck. It cannot be allowed to interfere with our game in 2020. This needs to be addressed with the AFL immediately. If they want to change the rule to add some rubbish about a straight arm fend in a ruck contest, then so be it, all ruckmen need to be adjudicated on the same grounds, not just Max. #freeMaxy Get on board

Today was a perfect example of what has seen us rooted to the foot of the ladder, but similarly, the problem holds the answer to how we can bounce back quickly next year. The key reason we lost today was our impotence at ground level in our forwardline, both from a ground-ball-gets capacity and from a tackling pressure standard. It means that we end up doing most of our defending in our back half. This is unsustainable. We need to be looking at what Geelong did over the last off season. They injected 3 or 4 players into their forwardline that apply manic pressure, provide x factor and generally create a contest that enables them to lock the ball inside their 50. Due to our midfield dominance, we will bounce back quickly if we address this severe and obvious flaw in our game and our best 22. I'd look at trying to lure 1 or 2 zippy forwards from the likes of Richmond, and then add some more class through the midfield with our first pick in the upcoming draft. It seems crazy to say it given how poor we've been this year, but with a fit list to choose from, I think we can bounce back, but it's up to Goody and whoever our new high performance manager ends up being. The high performance program needs to be top notch, we need to be relatively injury-free and Goodwin needs to develop a more rounded and adaptable game style. In regards to the game today, I thought Petty's marking (just as it was last week) was impressive and I like his relaxed kicking action. He's another Lever. I'm excited by what we could see from him in the future, but also over the next 6 weeks. Petracca continued to provide a good contest in the forward half and should have had at least 2 goals today. His ball drop ensured he didn't have an easy third goal around the body. I've never seen such a skilled player fail to kick the ball around his body like Petracca does and I can only assume it's a ball drop thing. I can't remember him ever kicking a snap around his body that has goaled. He's missed plenty doing this though. Most AFL players find this the easier option, so it is a little baffling. Still, he continues to show consistency, which is all I would ask of him this season. I thought as a team, we tried to lower our eyes a lot more going inside 50 (this is a trend at Marvel - we tend to do this more), but I think we played the wrong game style for Marvel and the Bulldogs. Due to our slow play, we allowed the Bulldogs to consistently get numbers behind the ball and make us kick to a contest. However, when we moved the ball quickly and played on, we looked a million dollars. I liked that Goodwin finally threw Fritsch forward (he should have had three goals in just over a quarter) and May, but I think Goody has a bit to learn about game style. Knowing when to play slower and knowing when to go. For the most part, you need to go quickly against the Bulldogs and for the most part, it pays off on a small ground like Marvel. The other thing about our game from back to front is that we are one of the only teams who never look to set up for the switch. We don't have a dominant contested markers (Max is good floating down back, but rarely gets it done on the wings or in the forward half), yet we end up being highly predictable, kicking it down the line and often surrendering possession as a result. With May, Lever and even Hibberd in the team now, we should be using their penetrating kicking to switch more often. I think it was @titan_uranus who was saying in another thread today that if we bring a new brand of defensive pressure to our forwardline, we will climb back up the ladder relatively quickly. I agree and I hope Goodwin is thinking similarly.

Max was crucified today...if it wasn't that ridiculous "arm' penalty it was NOT being given frees for being so obviously held in the contest...there's shepherding...and theres holding...I know the difference...the Umpires obviously don't. T'was criminal

No other ruck ever has this paid against. Gawn rucking against a 6 foot tall player has every right use his arm to hold space, he can't sit there and have a small man jump on to him. I get he can't extent the arm to push off but that's not what he was doing at all. Contrived rubbish.

Yep, I could be swayed to this direction - it’s a development year after all. The only concern I would have is that he’s not doing it in a “first ruck” situation by playing in the firsts, but that might not matter in the context of the long term goal.

Or leave him right there and allow him to grow into the shared role . It might take a little while to gel. We're not robbing anyone at the moment...except supporters...robbing them blind. Here we can have real time experience for the dynamic duo.. we're not going to be doing much in september are we.

no. Just don't play him on the wing. It's not rocket surgery.

I think you mean “rah rah rebuild! Herp derp sack Goodwin! It’s not possible to draw positives when you’re at the arse end of the ladder!” RAGE POLLYANNA!!! Seriously though, excellent post.

A good and balanced overview. I however am not so sure about the selection of Jetta - his form at Casey the previous week was poor and prior to his injury he looked slow. We may well have seen the best of him and Hore now ranks ahead of him. We were also hurt by the non-contribution of Hannan. With our forward line in disarray he needed to step up and some of his efforts were insipid at best.

We won’t get him, but nevertheless he’s done his job and stymied the momentum and belief we could have had on a team that has been a little up and down this year.

I like the way he positions himself, just knows where to go and doesn't commit too early. I don't think it would hurt to give him a taste at senior level. I reckon he's the type of player that would thrive at the higher level.

We need better Coaches to drive a higher level of excellence These Kids have all been recruited from the same pathways. Our Coaches are not up to it 17 Clubs did Homework on us last Summer. Meth Coke did it in September and we have completely fallen over as a Club. That comes back to the Teachers. All the Assistants should walk after Round 23....

They won't give Suns a PP they don't need any more kids, they need seasoned players, think they will again give them 1st access to state league players and possibly mid first/second round picks which they must trade Anyone suggesting taking Henry with pick 2 is a clown. He's not even top 3 of the WA boys, kid can play but Freo and the side with the next 8 picks will roll over laughing if we offer pick 2 for Henry. I would love Anderson but think we'll have pick 4ish I'm leaning towards Kemp and playing him forward while he builds a tank

Just another one we agree on. I'm over this 'trade Petracca' rubbish. Yes, his set shots have been poor this year, but outside of maybe Hunt, that's true of the entire team. However, Tracy's had a really strong year as a forward in a team that has absolutely no idea how to use the ball. The team crying out for explosiveness, class, and creativity, and half the people on here want to trade one of maybe 4 players that actually possess the talents that win football games. Unreal.

My favorite ever argument on Demonland was when Freak told us that any players who stand exactly 174cm tall are no good. My god I’ve been around here for far too long... and still bloody jaded by this team!

I thought Hibbo had one of his better games for the year. Looked like he regained some attack and dash back and although he didn’t have many disposals he did gain us some much needed territory at times.

Trac’s getting better every week, including his set shots. He was one of our best players and managed to break through Bulldogs players on numerous occasions. Instead of blaming him for the loss, praise him for assisting with keeping us in the game.

Ffs Anderson, Rowell, Kemp, Serong, Stephens, Ash and Green are all ahead of Henry

Could not disagree more. I'd drop him for that decision alone. I was livid at the ground when he chose to play on. I could not believe he chose to do so. The clock was only on 26.30 i think (or at latest 27.30). Massive amount of time left. He was on the 'right' side for a lefty and only 25 meters out on slight angle. Simply had to go back and slot it. Time was not an issue, and he should have known that and even if it was worried about time he still should have gone back and just taken 15 seconds and slotted it. Huge error and one made i suspect because he missed an absolute soda ealrier in the game. Mentally weak decision and unforgivable in the circumstances.

Because even underdone they are better than the scrubs at Casey? Because we keep getting injuries to other players creating a gap in the side. Lever had done enough training and games, just have to get him back in and live with some mistakes and lack of footy. Jetta was rushed in to play limited game time out of the back pocket, at the end of the day he probably wasn't any worse than playing Josh Wagner. Wasn't any better either, but if he's made it through without injuries he'll be better next week for the run at AFL level.

Score a good reflection of the game. Lever and Jetta will be better for the run, makeshift forward line was always going to be stretched, but once again, too many players out, too little consistency in the team we're putting on the park and still too many (fringe) players where chains of possession break down. Against that, a good opportunity for younger players, and Petty did well, working to his strengths. Final point: Steven May. Bag him all you want, but showed what real, take the game by the scruff of the neck leadership looks like.

Gripping game - a real arm wrestle. Low skills but super tightly contested. Never really felt like we might win, but never felt like they were going to skip away either. Loved Petty as a temporary forward - it’s definitely an option to continue to explore for the rest of the year. Development year, so what better time? Goodwin rolled the dice moving May forward and it nearly worked. He is such a beast. I’m a huge fan. Preuss has ten thumbs. He actually reminds me of pre-breakout Gawn. He WILL be a useful tandem with Gawn, but isn’t yet. Also Gawn was no good when not in the ruck. All in all, just another loss really.

Hannan, Anb, Lockhart, Jetta, Dunkley, pruess were non existent to horrible. Hard to win with 25% of your team handicapping you

Fritsch 12 possession at 50% disposal efficiency Terrible Needs a spell at Casey