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He had a millisecond mate. He didn't see him until the last split second as he did what most MFC players wouldn't, and that is keeping his eye totally on the ball. Extremely poor football? No, extremely poor commentary from you. Viney is bloody tough considering he just got up and didn't even grimace. I have whinged more about a biting my tongue.

Wow this thread is incredible. What the actual f**k. Do you have any idea about shoulders, medicine, or surgery? We should just send players in for surgery because it sounds like a good idea? I don't put a huge amount of stock into what Tom Browne says but his use of the phrase "avoided surgery" surely means something along the lines of "there's no need for surgery to this injury". It's like if he rolled his ankle. A minor sprain doesn't need surgery, but damaged ligaments/bones might. If he had just a minor sprain, you'd be advocating to just chuck him under the knife for no reason? I often don't find myself agreeing with you, TGR, but on this I do. I have no idea what poita and At the break of Gawn are on about. He copped a hospital handpass, Stack was able to line him up, and Viney had no option but to wear it. What I can't stand about Demonland is when people have ample material to constructively criticise someone but take something completely innocent and rant about that instead. If you're unhappy with Viney, let's talk about his poor kicking or his too frequent tendency to try to take a tackler on only to get caught, instead of this hit.

Really? Do we need reminding of the state of the football club just prior to Roos taking over? We had just gone through two failed rebuilds, had come off a season where we won 2 games with a percentage of 50%, were getting absolutely belted week in week out, had very little talent on the list, had been right down the bottom for 7 years (save for some flashes of good footy in 2010 and 2011), were considered a basket case on and off the field and even the most loyal fans were struggling to have any hope for the future. The culture was a mess, no one wanted to play for us, good players wanted to leave...it was an out-and-out shambles. Five years later we have improved every year and got within one game of a Grand Final last year with a young and talented list. If anyone was offered that during the 2013 pre-season they would have grabbed it before finishing the sentence. We may be struggling at the moment but surely it's fairer to look at the incremental improvement over 5 years from 2014-2018 than a 6-round sample size. I shudder to think where we would be as a club without the input of Roos, PJ and others from 2014 onwards. Would we even have a club to support? This thread is nit-picking at its finest. Of course there may have been the odd decision-making error along the way, but that happens at all clubs. Looking at it in its entirety, Roos did an absolutely sensational job of steering this club away from extinction and onto the path towards being a respected team in the competition.

It's a split second decision. If he didn't take him on half of D'land would be up in arms accusing him of squibbing it. Would take a goer in the team any day over someone who blinks. Hardly poor football. Just part of the game.

Gees everyone is really looking behind every door to find someone to blame. Roos built a game on hard nosed, contested football which stands up in finals. I constantly remember him using Fremantle at their best pre Melbourne of having "big bodied mids of Fye/Mundy/Barlow" which we similarly went down that path with Oliver & Brayshaw. Most premiership sides & final sides are good contested teams which we were last year. As we all know Roos taught us how to defend first before slowly adding in how to attack & defend. We had the right balance towards the end of last year & during the finals we were tougher to score against but could also score heavily. For whatever reason we first lost our defensive mindset & it was costing us, now we've had to focus on defend because we were just bleeding goals so we saw Wednesday night how our attacking & scoring was effected. We wont know without been inside the club what has turned for us to fall away but it could be a combination of the off season surgeries, slight tinker with the game plan, poor player mindset, 6-6-6, sides doing more homework on us, all these little things add up to the perfect storm. Roos left 2 and bit seasons ago, a lot has changed since. He isn't the reason we are in this current state. We will ride this out & I have faith Goodwin & this group will turn it around if not by seasons end then next year

To those calling for surgery now you’ve clearly never had an AC injury. They vary in scale. If you don’t need surgery, you don’t do surgery.

Agreed. It will also allow him to get his foot right too.

Roos needed to stick around for at least 2-3 years longer than he did, even part time The fact that he didn’t has the club exactly where it is...

Why avoid surgery? Just give him surgery, get him right proper and prepare for 2020 opposed to trying to keep him on the park throughout a wasted season

Lance Franklin. Chris Judd. Gary Ablett. Dayne Beams. Patrick Dangerfield. Like the vast majority of what you post on here, this is just completely wrong. I hope people read this post 100 times. How about Marty Hore? Meanwhile who is Essendon's emerging new player? Or Collingwood's? So highly touted that all 18 clubs decided not to draft him, twice? Utter tripe. More tripe. What "supporting" are you doing if you don't go to games and just come on here bagging the players? If you don't want to spend your money or time supporting us, fine. Maybe don't spend your time posting on here then. No they don't. Collingwood won last year by 49 points in a non-contest.

He’s probably still of more value IN the forward line right now.

Can the mods get rid of these school kids like Elegt who continue to berate and spew negative [censored] on every single thread about the same [censored] topic. It is tiresome reading through every thread and seeing that [censored] constant negative drivel.

It’s the young supporters I feel for. School-age ones, especially those in primary school. Like many, I am toughened by copious scar tissue inflicted by decades of near misses, false dawns, and (more commonly) outright failure. The anger, frustration, etc, are not new to me. For me, the sun will still come up tomorrow (most likely ... are Sportsbet offering odds on that?). But young supporters, having found themselves last year suddenly basking in new-found honour and credibility, courtesy of our new-found winning ways, are now slumped back in humiliation and bewilderment. Who could blame them if they choose this time to jump ship, to one of our winning rivals (you know who), or off the sport altogether? This season is gone, but the pride and future support of our young supporters can still be salvaged with some wins against good sides. If this sorry collection of pea hearts, incompetents and stubborn mules the mighty MFC doesn't get its act together quickly, we will find ourselves right back in the calamitous times between Neeld and Roos, when the very existence of the club was at stake.

Hawks will probably get Patton for an 8th rd draft pick and then demand a sweetener from GWS.

He definitely tried to take it on. 99% of players in the league would have side stepped it which was the smart thing to do and would have been beneficial for the team. Almost feel sometimes Viney is just out there to show how tough he is rather than actually play football and help his side win. We don’t need courageous acts that amount to nothing. We need match winners and that’s what a captain should do.

Is Maynard the obvious replacement at this stage? He is the only one I can think of. I think Tracc should move to the midfield, along with Melksham, for the next couple of weeks.

Rewind the clock about two minutes further and see Baguley get a free kick and goal for a hold when he was the one doing the holding. Total BS free kick. If that hadn’t happened Essendon fans would have nothing to complain about as the game should have been out if reach by the time the Pendlebury thing happened. I think in general in our game we have a culture of pissing and moaning about umpiring in general. It’s a game where a lot of the rules are subjective. In every single game there’s calls good and bad. It’s the nature of the game. It’s a garbage excuse for booing 10 minutes after the game anyway. On a day that is supposed to be about coming togetherness, while ANZAC representatives were on the ground awarding a champion player. Boo your head off while the game is being played, and even after the siren. Once the presentations start, STFU and show some respect.

Is it just me or is this the most epically and deviously planned tanking ever prelim 18 surgeries to 5000 players bottom 4 ‘19 high draft ‘19 2020-2024 gfs epic

No, they’re a bit too serious.

As much as this season is tragic, I agree with your optimism. The nucleus of a really strong side is there.

Jack Reiwoldt out for 6-8 weeks but luckily he snuck in one game against us. The good luck of the Dees continues.

He was an incredible influence on this club I would have loved to see him stay to finish the job, but alas.... Goodwin just continues his own perplexing path that has everyone baffled Only a flag will suffice now

Maybe we should sack Roos! Oh, wait... I can't believe people are revisiting his tenure. A few facts: Most of our list have been recruited under Goodwin's watch (Roos let him have a major say in 2015 and he wasn't there for 2016, 2017, 2018) or were on the list pre-Roos. I count 12 players on our list recruited during Roos time and most of them played in the Prelim and are currently best 22. None of them slow, in fact include our fastest: Hunt, Frost and Gartlett Goodwin has hand picked his assistant coaching staff. Roos didn't single handedly choose Goodwin. Roos had hardly heard of him -Viney brought him into the club. Roos' hand-picked choice was Dew. Our current game plan of high zones, forward half etc are nothing like Roos' defence first/back shoulder game plan. I'm not saying one is better just saying we can't hold Roos responsible for how we currently play. There were good reasons for letting Howe and Dunn go like there were for letting Hogan and Watts go. Anyway, Goodwin was part of the decision making to let Howe and Dunn go. Who has Goodwin recruited with speed? If folks want to complain about the list maybe look at Todd Viney and to a lesser extent Jason Taylor. I see a lot more players in the image of TV/SG contested beasts. We aren't travelling well but as supporters we need to stop dredging up all sorts of history that means nothing now and blaming anyone who has been at the club.

I love Roosy and for what he did for this club. But the decision to banish lynden Dunn to the reserves for pretty much a whole year back in 2016 for a inexperienced Oscar McDonald in my eyes is one of the biggest blunders he did. The way he was treated in his last year was just perplexing.

Looked to me like he had very late notice of Stack's arrival and just had time to brace. The villain by my viewing was Max with that horrible hospital handpass to Viney.

As sad as it sounds, you do start questioning whether you should be taking them to games for the rest of the year. The low point for me was half way through the third quarter against the Saints when I turned to my 10yr old son and saw him staring into space with watery eyes. It hit hard, yeah it’s only a game they say, but to some it’s more than that with the time and energy you invest into the footy club. I’d like to think he’s a tough little bugger and come to realise it’s part of the game unfortunately.

I think that's a bit simplistic - Do you remember a guy called Greg Williams? 3cm taller, arguably slower but very very handy player I'm not saying Charlie is the next Greg Williams but his skills are good and he usually creates opportunities with possession. His challenge is to build a bigger tank, get stronger and to run all day and get the ball more often. These are not going to come easily so he has work ahead but from the little, I have seen he certainly does not lack the desire for success The coaching staff obviously see potential I think in two years time we will know if he's going to make it or not - too early to write him off IMO

Or Sparrow.

And be outraged if one of our own copped a soft chicken-wing fine.

Love it. TU on some manic warpath of truth in an era of fake news. Good luck mate. Wish I had your stamina.

People feeling "sorry" for Chunk do realise he's made more money than Sam Mitchel, Jordan Lewis and Joel Selwood by playing his footy at Melbourne yeah? We have been terrible, yet had to pay a min cap to someone didn't we . . . His best was b+ footy. Great fella, great Melbourne man whose done very well financially out of the club too. It's not going to be a fairytale and we need a whole lot more out of a skipper. Love the chunk but it's time to move on.

How can anything on field be Pert’s fault FFS, drawing a long bow, teams playing [censored] so it must be Gary Pert in the CEO’s office, get a grip people, if Pert finds us a permanent place to live that’ll be his job done, that’s why he’s there!

He's a turn over merchant with one gear. Get ball and kick long to a contest. The single most overrated player to ever wear a Melbourne guernsey. And I agree with a lot of what you say mate, but to say he carried our midfield last year at any point in time is laughable. But any post questioning Nathan's ability is always shut down on here and on any of those ridiculous Facebook groups. A protected species.

How about Tom Browne's "article": https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/toms-take-another-setback-adds-to-demons-800000-steven-may-debacle-c-77542 He says Goodwin, in his presser last night, confirmed what Tom said on Monday about May's injury setback. Except, of course, Tom said on Easter Monday that May's not going to be back until July. Which is not what Goodwin said (Goodwin said 4-5 weeks from now, which puts us at late-May/early-June), nor is what the club said this week. So he takes what he can get from Goodwin and tries to pat himself on the back. A word starting with f and ending with log comes to mind. Meanwhile there are three different spellings of Weideman's surname in the one article.

While your at it 'Flemo56'... look at the Demonland banner. We started making some changes late last year, and what did we do. We put a recruit in the centre, smack bang... who hadn't even played a game for us. May has been a major disappointment, to date. These little things are OUR one percenters, supporters One percenters, that WE give out... sometimes they're undeserved. I think we should alter the banner by the Queens Birthday match... shifting some players. So Gawn is front and centre... with Oli Viney, Gus, Nev, Harmes flanking him... And Nev should Never be put outside, alone in the dark. He deserves much much more, than be way outside, on the outer. .

If Hibberd threw Dusty to the ground and gave a couple of sly elbows we’d all be cheering. It sucks losing. Carry on.

Jacquie will be surprised.

Good will make it easier to get my finals tickets

Am I alone in being amazed that nothing has been made of Martin’s dangerous throw of Hibberd to the ground and subsequent elbow to the head, not once but twice when Hibberd was lying dazed on the ground?

If you head to the Dusty Martin assault thread our accountant has already gone down.

FFS he’s been at club 6 months

Sorry, got the facts wrong, every second year is a blowout. I must have got caught up in the hype. I know/put up with, too many Collingwood supporters.

I think an easy to follow, strong and reliable system makes a team seem like they have more depth. What you want, IMO, is to have any role player come into the system, know the system and be able to implement a basic function within it. Our system is shot and therefore our 'depth' looks more ordinary. In some ways, Hawthorn's lauded control system is a tougher system to play than our own, because foot skills are king. However, it appears our easier system requires a greater work rate in bursts, while the control system is more about aerobic power. I'd like to see us develop some new systems that either blend control v chaos or provide something entirely different. I was hoping we had the brains between Goodwin and Jennings to come up with something like this. We'll see. This is completely wrong. The zone was relaxed markedly in comparison to most other weeks. Thanks for this post. It's very heartening to think we have Lewis internally saying that they'd been here before at Hawthorn. Even that great Hawthorn side that evolved over the coming years. I had completely forgotten they were 1-5 in 2010. I would have loved that. Their only win was probably against us.

Yep saw it and it was play on. The useless and pathetic excuse for commentators hardly even mentioned it. Ump didn’t even pay a free unlike the one they picked out against us in our f50 If it were melb doing it it would be front page news, commentators would not stop talking about it and the umps would report the player, award the free kick and a 50m penalty. It wasn’t just a dangerous tackle but an elbow to the head while he was lying on the ground. Speaks volumes for the players character.

Jordan was impressive in JLT... of all the newbies he struck me as a good long term prospect... Saying that Petty is skinny shows your lack of knowledge!

Zero point trying to 'extend his career' by playing him in the less bash-and-crash roles, if the result is his career dribbles away ignominiously. Best option I can see is to throw him in the guts so he can do what he has always done, dig on in. We can't rely on always winning clearances and Jones at least has always been able to pile on and limit how often and how cleanly clearances break against us. He is a losing sides favourite onballer, so to speak. No, he wont do it to the kind of elite standard we like to see from Oliver and Brayshaw or an in-form Viney, but he will work hard at it and I think the simplicity and familiarity of the task will help him. In a way, oddly, it is a bit like giving simple instructions to young nervous players. In effect, he become the 'Preuss supporting Gawn' act of the inside mids. There to take his share of the hammering, and be competent and a factor the oposition has to plan for, but he is not the weapon. He's part of the armor. If we want to extend his career, we accept that he'll need to be rested a few times a season. But you've always got to try to put people in the positions they are most effective at, and our young mids are mostly a bit more flexible in their role than Jones.

No, the thoughts and languishing hopes of long-term MFC supporters and members need to be heard, heeded and appropriately responded to; and if Goodwin and Pert (who both in my eyes have very little entitlement to the 'throne' of credibility and its proximity to a protecting God as you suggest bing 181, and/or its status-only insulation) they must ultimately be seen as responsible for the amelioration of our current situation in Team management and/or its productive controls and outcomes, These two must be the drivers of both the present and the immediate future, and have unsuccessfully positioned themselves to be accountable.

Nope. I'd argue Brayshaw is our most complete inside,outside player. He's a good player who is only going to become a very good player. Langdon is a butcher too. I take it you'd do the deal?

And people knock misso. Anyone who can bring a fella back from the dead is ok by me. That is high performance. I heard he helped get that star j. Christ back on his feet as well.