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Is it ok to go off topic in a training thread when there was no training? Some posters mentioned in the past that Crossy had lost a bit of leg speed/endurance during his last year with us. Elite running ability was the cornerstone of his game. I noticed him getting caught and get exposed a number of times towards the end and wondered if his time was near. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recal he had some soft tissue issues in his last playing year as well. I love the guy and wanted to see him go on, we all want what's best for the team, it was Roosy's call and who better to make a the decision. I think it was the right call. Crossy's running ability at training now, or his stats in the final games, or the 2016 players on our list who struggled are not reason enough for him to have continued IMO. I think Roos and Goodwin wanted to test younger players and find out who could take us forward, perhaps they saw Crossy being of greater value to the team in his current role. He will have a very successful career in the fitness/training/sports science industry and can be very proud of the playing contribution he has made to the Dogs and the Dees. That he is still in fantastic knick and wants to be involved in the revival of the MFC speaks volumes for his character.

I will barrack for every team that plays Essendon. I would like them to lose as many games as possible so will be going for the Hawks, albeit through gritted teeth! The lesser of two evils so to speak!

Don't think there's much to de-rail

Dom still criminally underrated.

How do you know this? I know many in the footy world where shocked when Bernie's best mate Tex Walker was named Crow's skipper ahead of Dangerfield and Sloane. Inside the Adelaide club it was a matter of when and not if Tex got the job. My point is, how would any of us really know who is regarded as a leader by the players at MFC???

Hindsight bias. While it was happening, no-one had any knowledge or idea that a guy doing donuts in a city street was then about to mow down civilians in the mall. Looking back, we always think we had information that we didn't. In fact, we're sure of it.

I get your point, but Terlich didn't play a senior game last year. Cross would have taken games off Oliver / Petracca / Brayshaw / etc. Hopefully it is some short term pain for some long term gain.

This is the part that I don't understand about list management in the AFL. At the end of 2015, they had a high quality player and person retire who clearly wanted to play on and clearly had some miles left in the leg (had a 37 possession game in his second last match of his career). Instead they retain a player like Terlich who was no where near selection in 2015 and became even further away in 2016. Yes, I know Terlich was under contract but the precedent was set a couple of years earlier with the delisting of Evans. I wonder if Cross would've made any difference to our infamous losses to Essendon and Carlton last year, just like we question if Jordan Lewis would've made any difference. Sorry to derail the training thread, but I thought it was poor move letting Cross go.

I went down on the off chance they would train. JKH and Jets with Crossy and and a few others having a work out. JKH doing leading and kicking work and Jets running. Crossy the standout, looks like he could play tomorrow.

But they did get Vickery ?

Can't wait to hear how quick Trenners is in a warm climate.

It's even more complex when he's on second ruck duties. Then he has to tap it down to himself before he can even deliver the ball to himself.

A team event? And the whole team was punished? The AFL should hang their heads in shame. And by the way #giveitbackjobe

So when round 1 comes along and yhe bombers play the hawks we will have 2 new captains. One returning from a year ban after drug cheating. One returning from a year out fighting cancer. Who gets the "returning hero" march/celebrations? I feel sick.

Nowadays the standards are so low that an inarticulate buffoon can tweet his inner voice in half sentences, without any pause for reflection, and become the leader of the free world.

Ah, the good old days, before "journalism" became endless clickbait and product placement disguised as an article (and usually not declared in the addendum).

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/patrick-smith/james-hird-has-plotted-his-own-tragic-course/news-story/52b8eee1cdb4885b25381990e78b7283 Aaaand its a truth bomb

Any thoughts on Gawn at stoppages with no third man up? Cam Mooney on SEN yesterday predicting MFC to score heavily from stoppages. https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/01/24/malthouse-third-man-up-ban-is-great/

I asked T Viney why cross was delisted in the off season last year and he's explanation was that his kpi's were down below the level expected of an afl player. Wouldn't elaborate on the specifics

Don't wish to ignite another 'Spencer' debate but I don't agree with that. Spencer's strong point is his competitiveness and brute strength. Tap-work is an art and Spencer is most definitely limited in that skill. Amongst other AFL specific skills. As for the thread, it was brought up a while ago and yeh, clearly Gawn and the mids will benefit. Stars are aligning. A finals birth beckons.

It will also be interesting to see how Geelong goes both with this rule and the deliberate ducking-no free-play on rule. With Biclavs and the Selwoods being the rolled gold standard of both it may unfortunately negatively impact their ability to win games.

Preventative measures has always been the best solution (even though it's not a cure-all) In my opinion he should have either still been serving time for his string of earlier offences (over time) or in a remand centre for the more current offences. How he and numerous others are allowed to be freed up to commit more crime is hard to fathom. Our gun laws were tightened up appreciably after the Queen St, Hoddle St & Port Arthur Massacres and now it's time to come down hard on all other violent crimes. As for the bollards, we now live in a time of terrorist type acts so we have no choice but to be ultra-careful.

If those blokes who ran out on flinders st with their baseball bats to try and stop him, were actually able to do enough damage to stop him they might have found themselves in trouble.

The beauty of the AFL salary cap is that it prevents the ridiculous one-sided competition and teams have to act in relatively conservative terms (except for the likes of the Bulldogs with Boyd). I love the EPL, but the money coming into that competition lessens the final results for me. I've been a Liverpool supporter since I was a young boy and there were rumours of a Chinese conglomerate making a bid to buy the club. Whatever success this may bring, it would cheapen any success IMO. So in an alternate world, where there was no AFL salary cap, I'd still prefer to make it big on our own. The handout mentality isn't viable in business and that's what the AFL has become, so no deal, for me.

Good to hear you're 'making do' Biff. Getting a good Pimms can be a trifle annoying. Hope they've learnt the finer points of a good G &T also.

Red heads always struggle to find a match Biffen. You tried your best, can't help the injustices of nature. I believe Bitters has been furiously mucking out the Romsey stables in anticipation of your lady friend arrivals. You know, peep holes, CCTV, anchor points, and all that goes with his sick tastes. Don't forget to shove all of your 'declarable' items in the missus' luggage on your journey home.

Greetings from Saigon,or near enough to it, Spent some hellish days in disagreement with some of my business associates but seem to have struck an accord in relation to prices of various products that are now safely En route to the Gat via an elaborate courier system. Ate myself silly in Ha Noi and gained a few kgs that have been shed with the aid of chilli ladened southern food. Have arranged several marriages already but can't seem to find any suitors for my red haired friend which is only natural I suppose.Uncle Bitters has agreed to house them at Romsey and deliver them with their honour in tact but I have my doubts as to his motives. I have had to beef up the rickshaw team as they tend to tire very quickly under the whip,and many have fallen by the wayside. I have taken to wearing a white linen suit and have taught the young girls how to make Pimms properly,which is imperative in this heat. My masseurs have reduced my aches and pains in preparation for my return,if it ever happens. I've noticed DC and Bitters are posting less frequently than usual which has lessened the collective IQ of the thread. I urge you all to eat pork on the BBQ this year as a sign of respect to infidels. Party on.

We were fortunate we could retain Crossy in a development capacity. In saying that assuming he was not wanting $ and was understanding he may have had to play VFL to allow games into Oliver, Brayshaw and co it was a poor move. My view is he would have played most of the season ahead of Bugg, Michie, Newton, Grimes, M Jones who on most weeks one maybe two were in the 22.

I had a chat to Crossy, yes he was bitterly disappointed, but could understand the thinking behind the decision, as Poita said we needed to get games into some of the younger ones Club gave him a chance to pursue career off field, he had a few offers, but decided MFC was where he wanted to be Keeps his hand in playing with his old junior club in Albury when he can

Pretty sure the Qld camp is a key input into who makes up the group. I'd expect an announcement as early as a week or two following the camp, but it's just a guess.

Whatever floats your boat. You can even barrack for him if you prefer.

Thanks goodness Watts is up there! He has earnt the recognition and am sure he will improve on last year. Like the rest of the team he seems to be really enjoying himself - great place from which to do his best work.

Hey guys Has anyone over the last few pages thought of reading the thread title? It seems to have been hijacked and become a thread on the MFC website. How about a seperate thread? Any thoughts on who is / should / could be the third tall forward, if indeed such a position actually exists, and when?

Last year we got some fantastic reports from the Queensland posters. Looking forward to the different insights

Jab Take notice... cheat

It's only a matter of time... One man running clean & winning against the rest...call me cynical but I've heard this story before.

Weideman is coming along nicely and when he clunked a mark today (against T.Mac) the whole playing list seemed to converge on him in congratulations. By contrast, nobody seemed interested when Watts continually took marks and then roosted them through the sticks (such as we are becoming to take that for granted)! Other impressions today were that Hogan looked in a good place, Hunt hasn't got any slower and Keilty is a big unit.

Was there from about 10 until 11:15, with a wander to go get coffee in the middle. Craft session. So really quick cycling through a range of drills. Some divided by positions, other a mix. Missed (by me): Dom, Nev (saw him leaving), Kent, Brayshaw, Ben Ken? Rehab: ANB, Hannan. At times:Flippers, Mitch King Hibberd was held out after about 11. Couldn't tell if it was his knee or some other issue and didn't see any incident. Inside 50 kicking seemed a focus of a lot of drills that had varying ways to test it. There was a drill where 2 players would gather the ball, spin round and kick to a lead, it's on the clubs instagram. There were midfield stoppage drills that then had the players streaming forward to kick inside 50. And drills where the defenders would get the ball out then the forwards would take over and take the ball the other way. All 4 rucks did a fair bit of work with Stafford, but they weren't competing against each other. The mids did a fair bit of clearance work with umpires present to bounce the ball. Hogan did go in to this drill at various stages although my focus was on the forwards at that time. I'd say they'll put him in there as a way to get him in to the game and to take him from certain opponents. Matched up with even numbers probably 8 a side they practised getting the ball out of deep defence using short kicking and things got a bit ugly. They had an umpire calling marks and play ons and there were a few turnovers. They were really restricted in the space and using only short kicks for the drill. I expect the actual game plan will call for a lot more counter attacking and long kicking, particularly switching. Individual observations: Salem - looked really composed today, used his body well to win a marking contest, ran the ball forward with speed to evade pressure, nailed a goal from 50 on the run. Spencer - not to derail another thread but he did look good, racking up touches and making smart handballs on the spread Oliver - for the brief bit of the clearance work I watched he was wreaking havoc Maynard - another who got a few nice quick handballs off in traffic. I think he has vision Lewis - his kicking inside 50 is where he stands out Watts - his leading and ability to create space inside 50 is a cut above. I want him up the ground to get the ball but he is dangerous deep if he can find room and get delivery McKenna - a really nice ball user inside 50 Pedda and Vanders look fit, JKH looks sharp

I never understand posters who say they find some posts/posters insert adjective don't read the farkin things quite simple

Yep I agree, but I think he has it, there was one spot up kick to Kent this year I think that was beautiful. His technique needs more work than his vision, which is good, because that's a lot easier to fix.

not sure it reads that way...not for me at least.Seems to indicate Roughy should be the hero...

Sorry. My post was critical of essendon having a big celebration to welcome back their drug cheats when the real comeback story leads out the other team.

absolute freak! Won an all Australian as a forward, a mid and As a half back.

Winning multiple B&F as a midfielder when Mark Ricciuto and Andrew McLeod are running around in the same team for your whole career, that's impressive! I hope Dom Tyson is taking notes.

Well when a winner is found to have drug cheated and then "returns it" but actually keeps it and the governing body doesnt care id say it has no value

Their whole club should have been banned last year. 34 players guilty? Club instigated and lead doping regime? Losing 12 players, picking up 10 others and getting pick 1 wasnt much of a punishment. Whatever happened to "2 athletes in a team guilty = team suspension"? Lets not forget the previous punishments were for "bringing the game into disrepute" because they had no records...

Wrecker 45, I am responding to your statement bolded above. America de Calli had already made the point below: "How can you believe he is the scapegoat when just about everyone else in positions of responsibility at Essendon were sacked or resigned swiftly? It took untill the bitter end and millions of dollars in his pocket to get Hird out of the club". However Wrecker45, you responded to his post as though you didn't read it, so I am again rebutting your statement that: "Hird could have handled it better but I truly think he his a pawn that the AFL needed to hang everything on. Particularly, after he wouldn't cop the slap on the wrist they were offering". You are again ignoring all the other casualties at the club which were mentioned by AdC, you are ignoring the fact that Essendon was fined $2 mill, you are ignoring that it lost draft picks, you are ignoring that the players were suspended for 12 months, (albeit by a WADA tribunal) and retired players had to step aside from coaching and other positions. You are ignoring the fact that the club is shelling out millions in compensation to the players. You are ignoring that Watson has lost his Brownlow. Hird himself resigned as coach before the player suspensions because the players were no longer performing for him. This was not a penalty imposed by the AFL. He kept going to independent courts and losing, so how can he be a pawn of the AFL. After all this, how then is he the scapegoat that the AFL needed to hang everything on? You yourself say"he wouldn't cop the slap on the wrist they were offering". So he was offered a slap on the wrist but 'he is a scapegoat"? (I know you say it happened because he wouldn't accept the slap, but that is still contradictory). Hird is just one of the many and continuing casualties of this program. By definition if there are so many other casualties, Hird cannot be a scapegoat As it happens, my view is also that he didn't intend to break the rules, but that is not a defense when the rules were broken under his watch and as a result of a program he instituted. He had responsibilities and he amongst others had to be accountable, - the Cronulla coach copped a suspension, what penalty did Hird get from the AFL which was worse?

It's possible to look at this situation in different ways. James Hird is a human being, a husband and a father who has attempted to take his life. In that respect, I think most other reasonable human beings should be looking at how he can be best helped to overcome whatever it is that brought him to that place. If he had a broken leg, it wouldn't be hard for us to understand that he needs proper medical attention, possibly an operation, followed by rest and recuperation. Mental illness is somewhat more complex but I see no reason why people need to go into whether or not he "brought all of this on himself" - we simply don't know and it's irrelevant at this point in time. In my view, the general community, the football fraternity and in particular the Essendon Football Club and its supporters should all be working together to help him in any possible way they can which at this stage is not to do or say too much, to leave it to the health professionals and let him know they have everyone's full support in his quest to get better. That's what I would expect we should be doing in the case of a broken leg and this is no different. I've always maintained that Essendon played this saga out very poorly. Hird was part of that but we can't even say definitively whether it was the factor that brought him to the place he currently occupies. However, I don't think the recriminations and finger pointing in the media from his father, lawyer and some Essendon supporters and others playing the blame game is going to help anyone - neither Hird, the Essendon Football Club or the sport itself.

Just to give a young body a chopout, not so much as a ruck option. If they want to manage Weideman I see Pedersen as his forward replacement.