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WGAF what they think.

There's something clearly wrong with whatever formulas they're using to reach their rankings if Richmond and Collingwood's midfields are considered two of the best in the league. I mean, Jesus... RICHMOND? Their midfield is horrific.

Our midfield isn't as good as some here think but we have beaten the Pies the last 3 times we have played them. For them to be 1 and us 18th is just embarrasing for CData and does a lot of damage to their brand. To rank the Swans midfield 5th is a joke as well. As for Richmond..... FFS they are taking the pizz.. did someone hack their account?

Perhaps you might have heard the one about statistics and damn lies. Well this is one about using past performance and applying it to the present and the future. It simply doesn't take into account that some of the midfields with older players are bound to decline while the younger midfields have the capacity to overtake them with rapid improvement. There's nothing wrong with the Champion Data people. Pollsters are getting it wrong all of the time. Look at the recent US elections.

I am still at a loss, taking into account DD's information, I attended training on the first day Clarrie was back, he was clearly suffering from something, second session he had to pull out and after discussion with medical staff, sat down and waited for session to end I approached him, he didn't look well and said he was feeling crook, I checked with Misso and he said the same thing He disappeared from the next training session or two and then reappeared looking a lot better, I asked him after the session what had occurred and said he had been sent for tests and it came back he had asthma/hay fever and was now on medication, but the whole episode had knocked him around, I would be surprised if he lied to me in such detail He participated in the whole session or two after that, before appearing in the rehab/other group on Monday, as a lot of players including Nev Jetta and Dom Tyson have done the same, I didn't find this unusual I also have approached Macca/Goodwin/Misso and asked whether anyone was brave enough to turn up not ready to go, and all said no, including Macca, you ask him a question and you get an answer, as others attest, so I believed them I don't really care what you think SMJ, I am over the negativity displayed on here, some need it to be able to post, I watched Clarrie motoring around the field in repeat 400's the other day, didn't look underdone to me

Viney or crisp? Hmmm

Long time reader. First time contributor. Too Saty and all the others who contribute to the forum and provide training updates, you are legends! Thank you very much. Always something to look forward to...... On the Oliver situation, I have someone on the inside. Think you might find that Oliver is on deliberate modified program due to his OP flaring up again mid year, last season, which he had before he was drafted. This being the case, it makes you wonder what the ceiling could be considering the levels he reached last season.

Choo Choo is the best midfield talent I've seen at this club in decades. They are not letting him relax by the sounds of it. Years ago we would have ruined someone with this much potential. If we get 200 games out of this kid we are going places. Not to mention the other guns. He has the best hands in close I've ever seen.

The answer is (c) - both.

Viney has better inside stats - clearances, tackles, contested possessions. He's far better in the air as well. A lot of Treloar's possessions are give and get handballs that rack up stats but aren't all that dangerous. He is a bit quicker and smoother running with the ball than Viney and get 2 more kicks per game, but that only balances him up with Jack's inside dominance. I don't think Treloar works nearly as hard defensively nor do I think he knows how to be a balanced contributor at clearances working as a unit. Collingwood's midfield leaked like a sieve all year giving up huge games to opposition mids. There's a reason why Pendlebury won the Pies B+F this year when so many thought Treloar would. Pendlebury is a proper elite player. There's more of a gap between him and Treloar than there is - if there is - between Treloar and Viney.

you'd think champion data would at least run a sniff test down at the local before publishing this rubbish

I'd like to see real stats. Stats that win flags. like 'oh [censored] he's coming at me. I'd better handball to the other guy even if he's about to get killed' Tough wins flags. Always has. Skills get you there but tough wins it. I'm still waiting for the Viney is close so I'm gonna kick it OOF stat.

Weren't we third in clearances last year? If the complex formula doesn't take that into account they're clearly not understanding the game.

An article like this should provide some fire in the belly for our guys to prove them all wrong. In a way, this is better result than over inflating their egos by announcing them as the best, and then wondering why they under achieved later on. much happier to see this happen to Collingwood.

After this year's Census and reading this,I'm beginning to think that statisticians are [censored] in the head.

I have always said only one statistic counts the scoreboard at the end of the match and all other statistics are rubbish

Ben Kennedy injury happened right in front of me. A group were doing a drill which involved one player with the ball running straight at another player with a view to try and get past him. I was very impressed with the intensity with which this was carried out with the players getting really [censored] off with themselves when they missed the tackles and their opponent got through their defence. BK I think was trying to tackle Neville Jetta and his hand and part of his arm got tangled up in his jumper and he was pulled along by Jetta trying to get away. It looked as though he dislocated his shoulder and injured his hand. It was quite nasty, but fully accidental I might add. After that the players were yelling at each other to be careful about injuring their opponents. The intensity of it though was very impressive, as was all the training I saw particularly for this time of the year.

Champion Data are off their guts, surely.

Rumour has it that while AFL Players Association delegates were gathered in Torquay today amid increasingly tense pay negotiations, one rank and file Demon is already on a pre-season strike and has not been seen around Gosch's Paddock for several months.

Sat.. I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you as i have actually hadn't mind reading your training reports. But the 6 to 8 weeks off Clarry has had off since the VFL grand final is plenty of time to get his fitness up to a standard Misso and Goody wants. He obviously didn't meet that requirement and is now doing work with Crossy (poor kid) to get him up to speed. I read last week that you mentioned Oliver had picked up the hayfever asthma symptom when first week of training had started. By then they would have done skin fold testing and thats when they would have picked up that Oliver hadn't reached those required targets. The Hey fever would not have stopped him doing the required physical work that was set out for him during that time off. Lets not forget that it was also mentioned in the MFC website that he turned up in unacceptable shape. What i also will say on this issue is that its not a major crime that he has turned up in poor shape. I read Lenny Hayes biography and he mentioned that in his 2nd Pre Season he turned up 7 kilos overweight from his footy trip experience of sinking [censored] in Mexico! The coaching staff gave him a bake and made him run lap after lap to catch up to the rest of the group. He never did it again. Just goes to show even the true superstars of the game have had off season hiccups and have come out even stronger. Clarry will learn from this just like Hogan has.

I got there at closer to 10:30, so no surprise if I missed a few but: Missing: Lewis, Hibberd, Wagner, McDonald, T Smith, Hannan, Keilty, Flippers, Mitch King, DJ, Tyson, Jetta. Laps: Pedersen, JKH. Oliver doing sprints up the side line. Sprints and towing a sled behind them: Viney, Vanders, Trenners. These three guys look strong and fit. You barely notice the sled with the weight dragging behind Viney. The rest started in smaller drills and then were doing some full ground ball movement. Getting the ball under pressure from one end and working it all the way up to the other before swapping over. The usual standouts - Jones, Brayshaw prolific, Harmes involved with a nice fend off, Salem - so classy, Petracca's burst movement, Stretch getting out wide. Not sure what will come of it but Spencer's movement continues to impress me. He's running on top of the ground at least. Frost is such a zone defence weapon with his ability to break and intercept. Unfortunately, he's still a bit out of control when it comes to actually doing something with the ball. Right now though my choice for third tall defender isn't Frost and definitely isn't Garland. I'd be picking 44 and seeing what he can do. Ben Kennedy came back from AAMI with a band on his nose and a compression bandage on his forearm, think someone cleaned him up earlier in the session but he seemed fine.

Great stuff guys i was in the cheersquad in the 70's as well, remember most of those guys now that names have been mentioned they were great days even if we didn't win that much. Some of my memories are meeting early in the mornings of gameday at the G to hang up the banners,having a little fire at the back of the old southern stand to keep warm some mornings,used to take home a banner sometimes to open it up during the week to help air it out and dry used to roll it out along the footpath always loved the MELBOURNE - MASTERS OF THE MCG . The cheersquad used to sit on the wing in the old southern stand , remember we played either Collingwood or Essendon cheersquad a couple of times and we won also the 1976 game at vic park, was so upset at missing the finals that year and a big fight in the field in front of the players race after the game the collingwood supporters were going off, Steve actually walked with me across the ground so nothing would happen to me, think i was about 14, good man ( still think Carlton lied down that day so we didn't make it !!! ) but also ripping up phone books during the reserves game to throw whenever we kicked a goal,the old duffle coat with Robbie"s name on the back and the old material cheersquad badges that mum had to sow on . I still have it, my son wore it to the merger match when i thought i would not have a team anymore , lots more i remember thanks for starting this thread so long ago but have brought back great times even if we didn't win that often and why i love this club so much . cheers guys

I've seen and heard a lot of BS in my 50 odd years in this planet.....this frog poo by Champion Data is a Perfect example of wankernomics by the current generation of let's make it up as we go! and let's get plenty of suckers in to pay us for this poo. The way Champion Data are going ......all supporters will soon need a degree in Astrophysics to understand the BS they get paid to write about.

Hey Old Demon Me. That banner lasted a long time if it was the original. We made back in the 60's up a mates driveway and when we lifted it up after drying we were in trouble as it printed on the ground. We had a room in the pavilion where we stored the banners but if they were wet we took them home to Carnegie and hang them up on the railway line fence the next day to dry. A real effort to take them to the next match on the first train along with bags of cut-up paper. I'm still trying to work out how to post old photo's of the cheer squad.

Great first post, doug. Nothing suss there. Go Pies. Melbourne's midfield was ranked 5th for clearances and 6th for contested possession. There's two of the key functions of any midfield where Melbourne was objectively in the top third. Only the most self hating supporter would think we're dead last. Any system that rates Mitch Wallis as 'elite' and V.iney as 'average' is a broken system that clearly doesn't place sufficient weight on a player's last 12 months.

The corresponding article last year had Freo ranked 2nd and Bulldogs 10th

There's not a coach in the league who'd prefer to have Richmond's or Collingwood's midfield over ours, Buckley and Hardwick included.

Yes, it's called a TUE (therepeutic use exemption). But probably isn't even needed for most common asthma drugs anyway. Just some of the asthma steroids have been used in high doses to either mask drugs or to produce some form of short term benefit, you'd have to ask the cyclists if they work.They are corticosteroids not anabolic steroids, so long term they break down muscle not build muscle anyway so asthma meds aren't something you'd take to cheat.

Interesting that Kate Sheahan, Mike's daughter, was rung by Gill to play in the women's league. In an interview she said, she played until 14 and then one game for Uni in 2006, when she broke her wrist and that was it. So she has played one game of footy since she was 14, 20 years ago and that game was 10 years ago and the AFL boss finds the time to ring her to play. Not knocking women's footy, but says a lot about the quality of players. It also says a lot about the time preferences of the AFL Chief, who can't find the time to even pop in to the negotiations for the CBA, the single most important agenda item ATM for the AFL.

With a new coach coming onto the scene the opportunity is always there for every player on the list who makes an impact in the preseason to claim a place in the best 22. There's no reason why Garland who was out of vogue under Roos in his last year as coach to reestablish himself in the team. I wish him luck. Naturally, this applies to any number of others on our list which is what makes things so exciting at the club at this time. Everyone can make it (with the possible exception of #8 who, on the face of it, doesn't appear to be interested).

Except me.

Just to let you all know, I've officially refunded my Geelong membership and have order my Melbourne membership ? Carn the Dee's!

Good to see Clayton Oliver putting in the hard yards after coming back in poor condition. Spoke to Oliver's former Bushies coach and now current development coach at Casey and fair to say Goody and Misso were pretty disappointed. It wasn't the fact he did no running its more that he didn't reach his target that was set out for him. Its not a serious issue as Hogan and Nibbler went through the same thing last year, but just means they start behind the eight ball.

That is why I will on occassion call out a poster. We can write lines on the failings of Dawes as a footballer. That's a reality. However, he, like 95% of other "failures" give it a shot but due to frail bodies, lack of ability, game going past them or just plain age are not a success. I understand why they are cut and in nearly all cases agree with the decision but giving them a kick up the ar$e on the way out is just so unnecessary. It's not passionate, it's not being a tough club that no longer accepts mediocrity - it is just plain nasty.

One of my favourite players was The Flash who we drafted from the VFL (originally as a rookie). The club has drafted three players this year from that competition and I hope they can have good AFL careers like his. Meanwhile, Aaron has taken up a coaching job at Doveton which is not that far from Casey where two of our rookies were recruited from - Aaron Davey to coach Doveton in South East Football Netball League Good luck Flash!

Garland was never a top defender in my opinion.At best a reasonable minder....may have been a fair winger...but now not in the top 30/32.best players.

I can't believe that anyone actually watches that show.

Don't mind the article- it is retrospective after all . Strangest thing about it is that Lewis isn't ranked higher. It does two things 1. Puts more pressure on Collingwood/ McGuire/ Buckley 2. Reinforces the message to us : we have to improve - which means we have to work harder!! Two excellent outcomes!!

This analysis is ridiculous. we got 10th last year We have the number 1 ruck. I rate our forwards higher than our mids. I also rate our defenders higher than our mids ( through this is closer) I would have guessed our mids would have been bottom 5/6 last year Situation was even worse in 2015 and I would have rated our mids bottom 2. With two years folding into the analysis I would say champion data is reasonable what it does not capture is age profile. Anyone under 25 will probable improve anyone over 30 has a 25% chance of the wheels falling off. Our age profile in the midfield is pretty good and that will drive improvement. for those concerned about Vineys rating his 2015 was pretty average and that is 50% of his ranking

Try ad be objective and not so defensive. Seriously, we do not have an A-grader in our midfield. I love Jonesy and young Viney and there is loads of potential which I am Salivating at the prospect of seeing develop but at least Treloar and Pendlebury have the stats to back up Champion Data

Stats can be used to make sides look good or bad depends on how you present them. The clubs who finished below us have the so called superior mids then what led their team from finishing below us? Maybe champion data (crap) can rate all clubs in the forward and defence areas and the quality of the players on the bench,hairstyle of players to be included. It is time for another SHIRAZ.

Hun article designed solely to sell newspapers to toothless readers, nothing to see here, move along

Going to be good gag source material next season. "Not bad for the worst midfield in the league" will see a bit of airtime.

Ok, I've had a little think, and more than a little giggle about this, and I'm thinking that the reason Richmond is so high is because they handball in circles 15 times, then lose it, and the opp does 2 handballs, one kick then goal. Rince and repeat. A little bit like our backline under neeld. I'm sure our effective kicks looked great to CD. FB to a pocket to FB to the other pocket, to FB again, to the other pocket, then back to... oops. A bunch to us. one to them. and we lose by 80. Anyway bugger stats. I wanna see us smash both Collingwood and Richmond while their mids complain to the umps how we are worse, so how can it be so?

Great work Drunkn. I hate the scarfs. Haven't bothered to pick one up for three years. Useless. I would much rather a cap. I collected scarfs with the idea of sewing them together for a blanket as i saw a scarf blanket at the footy and thought what a brilliant idea. And useful. I even bought a bunch that were in an op shop. Had them in a garbage bag. Which someone threw out. That was the end of my scarf adventure.

But for this we have to thank the likes of Joe Gutnick and Cameron Schwab, two largely maligned figures in some circles, for their foresight and great understanding of the commercial benefits of the Bentleigh Club venture.

Was he sponsored by Western Star?

Like all trades - you trade and hope. Some work and some don't - Bernie Vince has been a win. Daniel Cross for free was a definite win. I liked the idea of Dawes at the time but he has definitely been a loss. "H" and Benken - "H" hasn't worked and Benken - too early but on exposed form to date it looking less likely to be a win. This year we have Melksham, Lewis and Hibberd - I am hoping for at least 2 out of these to work.

I found Hocko! I Googled "Darren 'Hocko' Hocking" and came across this article: http://newsmediaiframe.westcoastsentinel.com.au/iframepages/iframeArticle.aspx?id=2603780 Googled Hocko's Mechanical and found this image: https://www.google.com.au/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x2ab6a27bec94a1a3:0x40e613dc47889602!2m5!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i100!3m1!7e1!4shttps://plus.google.com/104613257735164278000/photos?hl%3Den%26socfid%3Dweb:lu:kp:placepageimage%26socpid%3D1!5sHocko%E2%80%99s+Mechanical+-+Google+Search&sa=X&ei=neZsVYvsCNP28QWtlYGoAw&ved=0CGQQoiowCw That's him. Looks like he lives in SA now. Okay I'll stop being a stalker now.