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Spencer is insurance, a very, very cheap plan B. He is not a best 22 player if Gawn is fit - that is obvious. However, from a list management point of view, no top ruckman is going to stay on our list on the possibility of maybe getting a game if Gawn (the best ruckman in the league) injures himself. Some people seem to be of the belief that we need to have Goldstein waiting in the wings. Any decent ruckman that was on our list at the end of 2016 would have left the MFC first chance they got; cos they're not going to get a game while Gawn is fit.

I'd say that is 3 into our best 22 and not one of the outs is/was comfortably in our best 22. So you would have to say we have improved on paper.

I'm going to take out Melksham for the comparison as I am thinking we are not as strong as we were - hoping to convince myself otherwise. Jordan Lewis > Michie - Yep I'll just leave that one here. Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich - No explanation here. Pat McKenna = Grimes - when you factor in age, I dont think we have lost anything here. Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton - felt that Hannan had a better 2's season than Newton did and offers a little more than Ben. Dion Johnstone < Matt Jones - This isnt a great like for like, but Dion is a project, we know what we were going to get from Matt. Lachlan Filipovic = Max King - both developing ruckman, Lachlan is younger so hopefully will surpass King Declan Keilty < Dunn - he is younger so there is some upside, but based on this year, Dunn had the better year in the VFL. Tim Smith < Chris Dawes - While Smith plays a different role, I wonder if he is better than what Dawes would have given us? I count it as 3 better, 2 equal, and 3 less then but age offers upside. While I think 6 players were just shuffling deck chairs, the 2 big in's of Lewis and Hibberd are seriously above what we had. I'm happy to take this year as a win.

IN: Jake Melksham (in effect) Jordan Lewis Michael Hibberd Pat McKenna Mitch Hannan Dion Johnstone Lachlan Filipovic Declan Keilty Tim Smith OUT: Jack Grimes Matt Jones Dean Terlich Lynden Dunn Chris Dawes Ben Newton Viv Michie Max King Looking good to me

Good decision by Jack to decline a Rookie spot, he has just put up with the last season playing seconds and I'm sure he doesn't need another. Hope he remains a Dee's supporter and that we see him at the games this year, it would be good if he could have some sort of mentoring role at the club. Thanks Jack for all you did for us in the dark days.

Who said he was lucky to be given a contract? Mahoney? Jack? Jack is one of the most professional players on the list. Your concerns about the shape that he has come back in are totally uneducated.

You are saying he isn't, others say he is that's why it is being debated

I would think we can play in an Elimination Final (win it a bonus). I really hope its in Melbourne but i suspect we will be 7th/8th so it will be hoping and praying that we end up against a fellow victorian team. Saints, Hawks or Cats might be the ones. Would love it to be the Hawks, Nice passing of the baton as one Era ends and another begins. Wins against the Pies, Saints, Carlton and the Roos are a must. Playing them twice we should really be able to chalk up 6 or 7 out 8. Doing that means we only need to find another 7 wins for the rest of the year and we're in. Easier said than done but our draw really means there's no more excuses. Id like to see us create a fortress at the MCG. I really want to begin hearing people say "We could beat the Dees but just not at the G" And a big interstate away win would be nice GWS, Adelaide or WC. 1/3 is good enough And finally the Friday night against the Swans. We need to perform, assuming they will be premiership contenders again, the win is not a requirement but we need to push them all the way.

Time for Finals this year..anything less is a fail.

And he can mark....

Does anyone mind if I delete this?

I dropped into training for an hour or so and the posts above explain why I didn't recognize a couple of the players! The session was still going when I left but it didn't seem to be as exhausting as some I've seen in the past. But what it did show was that they are straight into ball work, tackling, handball drills, match simulations and clearance work in a serious sense. There was pressure in every drill, not three quarter pace stuff as they got to know a drill or worked on game plan but a full on application of what they were practicing. I've not seen that intensity until well after Christmas in previous years which shows the maturity of the group and a different focus from the coaching staff. The other thing I noticed was how much more involved Goody is compared to previous coaches. He's hands on and a nuts and bolts sort of coach. The rehab group included Viney, Pedersen, Tom Mc, Lewis, Trenners, Jetta, Oliver (but I think he was in some of the early main group work), Max King, Vanders, JKH and maybe some others. None appeared inconvenienced other than Oliver who really didn't look all that happy. Of the players in the main group I focused on Joel Smith mostly who really is an imposing athlete. He trained well and is certainly comfortable in all the drills but he did fumble a couple that he shouldn't have although that's not surprising given the intensity of the session. Others to impress were Dom Tyson who looked really good, Billy Stretch for his dancing feet in tight situations and his ability to hit targets, Hoges for his sheer athleticism and agility for his size and Max Gawn for his vision in traffic which was very impressive. Hunt was also very impressive, perhaps the standout for me because I kept noticing him although I wasn't looking for him. He's very strong in the legs now and his kicking was pretty good today. But best of all he just kept finding the ball in match simulation and made good decisions when he got it. Petracca seems to have fined down quite significantly in the upper body but certainly not in the legs which are powerful and huge. I also liked that they were doing specific tackling drills, both practicing their technique and also standing up in the tackle and dishing it off. Again, these are drills I've not seen done at this time of the season. Jason Taylor was looking on but spent a fair bit of time on the phone as you'd imagine! And just for the record, H was a no show!

His perseverance has been Herculean. His professionalism is lauded by everyone. There is no way he's in the rehab group b/c he's out of condition as a result of being too heavily on the cans in the off season etc. I'm sure it's just part of his (modified) programme.

Would have thought ALL training was compulsory lest you had a note !!

...who went one better than CS by actually being on this earth for ALL our premierships! And her predictions were more personnel- than team-focused, foreshadowing the arrival of our Famous 5 and our (now not so) Secret 7. Neither of them particularly snotty-nosed, though. Who is, on our list? p.s., Bitters; I went to Wikipedia to reminisce about the author of my childhood, and stumbled - with some consequent shock - on the following (if it gets past the censors, and I think it should, being in the public domain anyway). I thought it might appeal to you?... 'Her love of tennis included playing naked, with nude tennis "a common practice in those days among the more louche members of the middle classes".'

KC have always appreciated your efforts and reports. Ive never quite worked out whether this arrangement is the best option for us ( MFC ) but it is what we have and I sense a new beginnings between the MFC and Scorps occurred last season with Plapp coming on board. I truly think its marvelous that come shopping time we DIDNT overlook our own back yard and smile to think some hard working industrious types with good footy abilities have been given the leg up form Casey to Melbourne. Well done and plaudits all around. Now there's greater harmony re game styles and direction between the two clubs this might result in even greater synergies than we saw in 2016 We once had great times with the Zebbies . I think we may now be embarking on a similar duet with Casey. Good luck in 2017...all in the family as they say

So according to LH's and I.T's excellent info and table we hit our current total sometime in week 4 of January this year and early March the year before. It will be interesting to see if we end up with significantly more members or people are just renewing earlier. Either way there is a fair bit of excitement out there for the 2017 Demons

I think 2017 will make it five years Steve. Not bad for a club that struggled to have one in place in March a few years back.

The young fella has only played the game for two years and he's found his way on to a AFL clubs rookie list. If anything, this fact alone shows the massive scope this kid potentially has. Handy basketballer and soccer player. Oozes talent and if Max says he's a hard worker then I'll back him in.

How do you gauge what metric the greater-than, equal-to and less-than sit at? For example, is Lewis further ahead of Mitchie than, say, Dawes is to Smith? We may have lost some players and replaced them with players that are further away or may not be as good *right now*, but the bigger picture suggests we've definitely improved. Let's rank each player out of, say, 10, and use your analysis of like-for-like swaps for players brought in and players lost. Lewis (8.5) > Michie (1) Hibberd (6) > Terlich (3) McKenna (4) = Grimes (4) Hannan (4.5) > Newton (3) Johnstone (2) < Jones (4.5) Filipovic (3) = King (3) Keilty (2.5) < Dunn (5) Smith (3.5) < Dawes (4) So: Bringing in: 34 Losing: 27.5 That's not considering that I feel Smith is an improvement on Dawes.

I will preface my expectations with an overview of how I see us ,,,,,now, For many many years you could look at our list and think, well, of the 44 or so only a dozen are really good AFL players., another dozen can be more than useful "on their day" half a dozen would be...I'm not too sure why we have them. The rest were either noobs or nqr's It's been a long time since I looked at our list and thought ( really thought, not hoped ) we actually have the possibility ( very real) of assembling something quite potent here.....and there's depth in most places ( * ruck worries me still ) From back through the guts to the pointy end we have ability. It could be very easy to get carried away and I have done in the past, but I'll temper my expectations to, we will play finals and wont just make up the numbers there either. I expect us to play a more consistent winning brand of footy and string games together on more than a couple of occasions through the season. Teams we should have beaten we now will. I dont think we'll fully get a 'well oiled machine " act happening just yet in 2017...2018 with another season and preseason ..yes. 2017..finish...13-14 wins place 6-8. make 2nd week of finals...scare the bejeebus out of a lot of teams !! Make Collingwood cry twice again !!always good value There are the usual caveats 2018....in the Granny !! Go Dees ( thread needs a poll btw )

Expectations? Same as usual at this time of the year: premiership.

I think Casey Scorps should contact Hamish Brayshaw and six high potential Stingrays that missed out on draft/rookie picks Bailey Morrish Mason De Wit Thomas Glen Matthew LaFontaine Danny Allsopp Reece Piper I saw Stingrays in 2016 and amazed that Morrish and Piper did not get drafted or rookied. Hope Casey can provide the next opportunity.

With the list completed for the next season with the finalization of the rookies, I wanted to know the realistic expectations people have for next season. For myself, I can see a very improved list with the removal of a few NQR players and the introduction of a lot of experience and potential. After the trading and draft periods I would say we have a list that is 10 to 15% better than it was this time last year. I will add into my expectations improvements to lot of our younger players that are coming into their 2nd or 3rd seasons and i expect us to be in the bottom half of the 8 with 13 or 14 wins. I will nominate 6th with no limit placed on the finals.

Interesting article on the AFL site with regards to the Crows keeping Sam Shaw on the list purely from a welfare perspective. Obviously the two instances have differences but the overriding message is that if we tried to get Lumumba off the books from a 'not meeting contractual obligations' pov, we could potentially open ourselves up considerably if something does happen with his concussion claims. Player welfare will always be first and if it takes having him as a non-playing listed player, such as Shaw, to avoid anything coming back on the club then so be it.

I have covered Trenners being in the rehab group, I spoke to him so this is his words "In rehab group to steadily increase load on foot, foot is fine, still gets it checked out once a month, loads and loads of running, to be ready to go 1st training session after Xmas break" On Oliver he has been generally crook, lack of energy etc, have sent him for a battery of tests, club being cautious with him

The deal's been extended, according to an AHG announcement this morning. No details regarding term or dollars.

Spencer will step up for the challenge if max needs a break or gets injured. Spencer isn't much worse then any other backup ruckman in the league

It improves it several ways. 1. He is a good player 2. It takes pressure off our next rung such as Tyson, Viney etc. That is a big help when you have a young team and part of the reason why we have been in the wilderness for a decade - lack of experience and quality in the 25-30 age bracket. 3. lewis will teach the younger players the good habits and game skills required to be successful. It really is a great coup.

We "reign supreme" over Port and Hawks???

Finals

Hi DL You need to include Melksham. Whilst he is not an "in" this year he is a bit like a guy who did his knee in the off season and lost a year. He has a proven track record and when playing at his best is a seriously good inclusion for us. With him as an extra in we are seriously ahead.

Jab deserves to keep nothing. He was the Captain through the whole disgrace and along with Hird would have known exactly what was going on. That said Heppell doesn't deserve that smug smile either, but the AFL think differently.

Finals.

Simply for the fact Smith can get on the park, I'd take him before dawes

Don't disagree that winning is the priority but identity which is is reinforced through adherence to the mantra of the red and blue can imbue confidence and assurance that can simplify the focus on performance.

I spoke recently to a family member of Jack Hutchins, who said that whilst it hadn't worked out at GC, he was determined to give it another crack, and if that meant going via the VFL, then he would do it. Hope he has another great year.

I have a better one... Zach Guthrie has been rookied by the Cats and will join his older brother Cam.

1 last thing I'd like to note, is his listed weight shows 88kgs, where the last time he weighed in he was up to 96kgs, pure muscle. A good pre-season in him and he will have a very competitive amount of strength.

On SEN drive home show, Jon Ralph, along with Mark "Mr Perception" Allen and Adam Cooney (enuf said), were tearing strips off Dank. Worst criminal in Oz sport history, etc etc. Even to the point of wishing financial ruin on him. (A tad harsh!) I wanted to ring in ... "so tell me, this Dank must have done something terrible. Something really awful to be the worst villain in Oz sport history. Tell me, what specifically did he do?" I expect they would have backtracked at a million miles an hour. "Oh, we don't really know" ... "He robbed these young men of the prime of their careers, the cad, etc" .... all while avoiding the obvious "he was the technical expert in Oz's greatest doping scandal and injected all those players with multiple PEDs." If Dank is the biggest villain, how did he get that way? Did EFC walk into the rooms one day to find this stranger injecting their players against their wills? Or did someone else ... potentially an even greater villain in sports history ... invite him in and direct him to these deeds? The wilfull blindness makes me shake my head. Is this our great game?

I wish you'd told the FD this before the draft cos they probably don't know. Just kidding. The FD obviously have a lot more faith in Pencil than many here.

So he's nuts.

We fooled them all with the two picks story, didn't we?