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He was interviewed at the Heartland Training session at Toorak Park, no idea what he said BUT highlight of the day for my 2 little boys... Jesse walked passed us on the way home and said bye to the boys and got about 100m in front of us and the boys kept yelling out "bye Jesse Hogan".... Then in the semi darkness I see him turn around and kick an Auskick ball straight to us which we took home. Reckon they will remember that for a long time and I'm sure will get some milage at school!!

I'm loving watching this team grow. The sense of belief, cockiness and comradery, In a strange way remind me a little of the Gallipolli series. That ability to smile in the face of adversity, the self belief to have a crack, egging each other on. With characters like Bernie, Clarrie, Jonesy and Viney a new version could write itself. I guess what I'm trying to say is I love what PJ and PR have envisaged as our brand. The spirit of the digger. Articles like Cam Mooney's below, show people are starting to look at the bigger picture and are liking where we are heading as a club. So stop the micro-scrutiny, take the gaze of the navel and start enjoying the ride. I know we've all been burnt before, but, this is very different. MELBOURNE Melbourne, to me, out of all of the sides out of the eight look best placed to move in next year. They have gone to the draft and got in some high level talent, such as Jesse Hogan, Christian Petracca, Clayton Oliver and Angus Brayshaw. These guys will only get better again. Add that to some great father-son selections in Todd Viney, who will be their next captain and is already a spiritual leader, and young Billy Stretch. Add that to more experienced players like Tom McDonald, Max Gawn and Nathan Jones, and a few very handy recruits in Bernie Vince and Tom Bugg, and the list has so much upside. What I like about the Dees is that they seem to be enjoying playing with each other. Young blokes like Viney just bleed for the jumper and his mates are jumping in behind him. They want to be there and they desperately want success together. That is the minimum starting point and the signs are good. The gap between their good and bad games is getting closer and there is a good culture there now. Paul Roos was criticised initially for his defensive and ugly tactics, but he has taught tis list to defend, win contested ball, and now as they are learning to attack. Next year I’d expect them to take another step under Simon Goodwin. The Demons have a lot of up-and-coming talent led by Jack Viney.

In one of Roos recent interviews he said his initial plan was: Year 1 - Defence (22 player team defence, not just the back 6) Year 2 - Contested Ball (by 22 players) Year 3 - Attacking Football (Starting from HB) (And I recall at the beginning he said something about handing over an AFL ready list to a new Coach). We were 22 players running around doing their own thing with no semblance of team work let alone contested football (remember the 'bruise free' label). That is why it is taking Roos longer than other teams. That it is taking so long is an indictment on where we were not on Roos or others now at the club. Improvement not fast enough for some? Fair enough. But Roos did not have much to work with and it had to be done in stages. Roos wasn't able to get experienced players so he had to (I think reluctantly) play kids. It is easier to train them from scratch than to 'teach old dogs new tricks' especially if the latter aren't able/willing to learn. Roos has implemented his plan. Yeah, he has made some mistakes but I thank God he came to the Dees. Where are we heading? Onward and upward! Only the players and Goodwin's team can decide how far!!

He's still the bloke who kicked us out of an '87 GF berth.

Articles like this will help too - http://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/16328432/demons-closest-afl-flag-clubs-top-eight-says-gary-buckenara

We're not at the Junction Oval anymore. AAMI Park stands up very well to anything Princess Park or Punt Road has to offer.

Some people on here need to get a grip. Seriously. The back six has 4 players who have played around 10 games or less. O Mc, Wagner, Hunt, Frost. Oh Dear we're not playing finals this year. Oh Oh Oh it's like this every year. Blah Blah Blah! Give me a frickin break. We are now where we should have been in Bailey's third year. It's not Roos's fault all those years were stuffed up. He's going to leave the place with a list that is going to be competitive. It's not his fault most of that list will be two years old when he leaves. Of the 15 players left on the list when he arrived at least 6 can't get a game. Dunn, Terlich, M Jones, Grimes, Garland, Pedersen. So he's built a list in three years with a start of 9 players. And they are not all in the best 9. Jones has gone to another level of leadership this season. His contested work is incredible. There's no one I'd rather have with the ball kicking a Captain's goal at a clutch moment. I agree there seems to be an issue lately with some of his disposals being shockers but don't ignore everything else because of it. Believe me, I'm as frustrated as anyone. That loss to the Bombers sticks in my craw now as much as it did on the day. But to ignore the improvement and the fact it's the youngest team playing at the moment week to week is ridiculous. I think we'll end up with around 9-10 wins. We're just too young to do much better this year. Finals this year were always going to be very unlikely. Next year is when we should be seriously talking finals.

It's amazing isn't it. Give me a slow player with a footy brain than a fast player with none.

Most of our losses have come from losing in the middle. When we lose in the middle, our defensive structure and inexperienced young defenders are badly exposed. Once our gun young midfielders (Oliver, Brayshaw and Petracca in particular) are fit, experienced and seasoned, that will happen less and less often. I think the best example of how we are possibly sacrificing a little bit of immediate success for future success is the continued selection of some of the younger players in the backline. Wagner I think was very early on identified as exactly the type of player they want in the backline, and his selection throughout the NAB and then an early debut indicated that despite perhaps not seeming to be fully ready for AFL, they wanted to fast track him. Credit to him, he's performed more than admirably imo. OMac is in the same boat I think. But when we loss the contest around the middle, guys like those two are somewhat exposed. In two years form now, we won't lose as often in the middle AND the backline (which will look very similar to what it does now personnel wise) will be far stronger one on one and more experience playing to the coaches structures and each other. The results will come.

Watts is going to kick around 35 goals himself this year, but his skills, class and smarts will create at least that many more for his team mates. I am involved at a different AFL club and i can tell you the respect for Jack outside the MFC has gone through the roof this year, he would have attracted significant interest if he remained unsigned.

Great news about about Jack wanting to sign on (if there was ever any doubt) http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-forward-jack-watts-says-outgoing-demons-coach-paul-roos-saved-his-career/news-story/a0f2d0e55dee5098b47f9835f491d20b

Let's be honest. We're downhill skiing big time. We've beaten one side in GWS who are obviously a much better side than us.. All other sides we've beaten have been either massively hit by injury or were in horrendous form. Or both. We lost to Essendon and we may possibly be the only side they beat all year. So that does say something about 'where we're at'. We haven't taken any scalps and considering we have an extremely tough draw after the bye, I want to see at least two games that we can win when we're not supposed to. If Carlton can beat Geelong at Etihad and Freo at Freo with the list they have, then I expect to see us beat Adelaide at home and Freo interstate. We need to beat St Kilda at Etihad. Must in fact. Gold Coast and Carlton we simply must beat. And if we can hold off on a flogging from West Coast, Port, Hawthorn and Geelong and instead take it up to them then I'll be pleased. There's a lot of talk going on in regards to where we are 'heading'. I'd like to back that up with some solid performances against some decent teams. None of this beating up on Collingwood/Richmond nonsense when they're down and out. Yes we've played some great football throughout games this year. But we haven't been awe-inspiring in any one game. Positives have come from young players and the emergence of Viney and Gawn. Greater depth has helped too. The second half of the year will be a a true test. And one worth watching.

Interestingly enough this is a comparison of points for and against for 2015 vs 2016 Points for: 71.5 vs 96.4 Points against: 92.9 v 92.9 That's right, our points against are exactly the same per game as last year but our points for are more than 4 goals per week better. And people are saying we aren't improving? We were all happy with our defence last year, why not this year? I suspect it's because of the account of "easy" goals we've conceded (I heard a commentator say we've conceded the most from inside 30m). But that doesn't concern me. Because of we are conceding the same points, but more in a certain way (uncontested player over the top) that means we must have improved the rest of our defence to account for this increase. Our new defensive structures pressure the ball carrier and the contest, making scoring hard, unless the structure falls down and they get it over the top. So when our game plan clicks and we can stop those over the top goals, we will probably cut the total points against as well. Edit: this is why I'm happy we don't change to plan B when teams score against us. Because we need to learn how to address those problems.

From The Age mid season report card: http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-season-2016-melbourne-midseason-report-20160619-gpmull.html What coach Paul Roos says: "We're trying to set our team up to when we eventually play finals that the game style that we put in place is going to be successful in that environment. That's the focus because we're seeing some teams, without mentioning them, they set up a game style that probably gets you to between eighth to 10th but struggle to get above eighth or seventh, so we don't want to do that." I think this statement puts into context sooner of the dejection and game style issues we've been discussing. It isn't about winning games, it is about developing a winning game style and winning culture. We are still in a development phase and we aren't cutting that development short for the sake of winning an extra 2 games this year, when it really doesn't count. I'll back the football club on this one. We've spent money to put a plan and program in place, and I prefer that we see it out rather than crumble to pressure for short term game.

I tried to start a thread like this a couple of years ago. In hindsight I was a bit premature, or maybe ahead of my time, Whatever, it took no time at all before the negative Nellies on this forum hijacked it and killed it off with the usual pessimism. I hope this one can endure a little longer. I agree, we are seeing the beginnings of something good coming our way. There is a spirit among the boys that I haven't seen for a long time. The heads don't drop any more and they keep doing what they have committed to. Jack Watts now attacks the ball with vigour because he knows everybody has his back. This is something I haven't seen in a long time. There's a sense of togetherness that will eventually lift every one of them to greater things. We have some great young talent but I don't think we're just going to see a team of champions - I think we're going to see a champion team. It's going to be great. This shot says it all... Good luck with the thread. Long may it live and prosper. GO DEES!

We beat them the last two times;if it bleeds, then we can kill it. Disclaimer: Part of the above sentence has been taken from the 1987 movie Predator .It has only been intended as a metaphor that GWS are not invincible and Emerald in no way condones the killing of GWS.

Respect is growing, that's all that really matters here, it's not just jack either, a few clubs are a bit jealous of the quality of our kids.

Congratulations to him. Sounds like good practice for playing alongside big Maxy.

Nthan Jones is a perfect representation of where our club has been, where it is6now, and where it is heading. He seemed to be a good natural footballer with limitations who improved faster than expected and became the most consistent, reliable and loved player. He was overlooked for the captaincy when many realised he should have benn at least co-captain. The club was a tragic image of an old suit-and-tie boys club more suited to the1960s. Many of the players around Nathan Jones were VFL standard, or playing atthat level because of the culture. The Bartlett, PJ, Roos era begins. Nathan is elected captain but is massively challenged about the nature of leadership by Roos and becomes an outstanding captain, leader and embodiment of our new hope and direction. He developed a media ablity and represented a whole new culture of excellence, winning and success, at least in terms of planning and future direction. His inspiration on the field turned into a new feel about our club. Now, he is the face and leader of a club that has set high standards, has outstanding personnel on every line and department, little or no unmanageable debt, has a great list, and is competitive in most games. I consider him one of the best cpatains in the AFL and the fact that MFC is improving at the same rate of his leadership is no surprise to me at all. Keep watching him if you want to know where we are heading.

One or two more wins for 7 or 8 in the season would be an unmitigated disaster for the club, supporters and Paul Roos' legacy. And it won't happen. We could win 4 of our next 5. Nine is the bare minimum. I think it will be between 9-11.

The club is clearly well managed now. The club now has a competent and effective coaching group which has a clear focus on the correct things: developing a strong and competitive culture, player development, building a modern and sustainable game plan, recruiting competitive players etc. We also now have competitive and talented list. Albeit it is super young and, across the list, it does not yet have the benefit of a lot of AFL games and, relevantly, many AFL games together. I suspect the coaching group is secretly very pleased with the progress thus far this year i.e. that this group now has so much depth and that the team has been more than competitive in several games this year against much more experienced opposition. This year was always another development year. The future of this list, and the club, is still in the years to come. The foundations are now however in place.

It's alright mate, we know you LOVE him.

After no preseason to speak of and three games, two of which were wet (one absolute quagmire) and you write him off! Like many reasonable folk here I will give him next preseason and next year before I even consider that.

Biggest game of the remainder of year for us. Just simply have to win! They are behind us in talent and development, we shouldn't continue to lose to them or at Edihad for that matter.

From the article in the Age: Sad to think that getting off on an obscure point of law would ease the stigma with some people. But it would go further and be used to prove them innocent and hapless victims.

Good point, jnrmac - Easy choice when it is Trengove vs Blease!

Hogan has the highest ceiling, no doubt. He has the most potential and we are seeing glimpses of what he can do in only his second full season. In the third quarter of the Queens Birthday match against Collingwood there was a period of time, almost 15 minutes where even though we were 20 odd points up the game was in the balance. The ball was going from one end to the other, there were mistakes, turnovers and missed shots on goal. The game was crying out for someone to do something special, inspiring. Hogan in a four minute period took a beautiful contested mark on the wing against three Collingwood forgetables, then another contested mark 35 metres out and slots the goal. Game over. I'll never forget it. That for me was his arrival as someone who can win a game off his own boot. Hogan is our potential champ, his good although not consistent is as good as Melbourne Footy Club has seen since Neitz and I think he can be better. He is the major reason we are scoring more and gaining respect as a team capable of beating top level teams in the comp. Full forwards are like the lead singer in a rock'n'roll band. You can have a great drummer and a really great lead guitarist etc but your nothing without the lead singer. Hogan has all that. He has swagger, self belief and the desire to win. Underestimate him at your peril, he is at the very top of any of these lists you care to make up. By a mile.

In fairness, Richmond and Melbourne assessed his value in 2014to be a first round pick, not a second. To put that in perspective, Melbourne would have lost Trengove and our second round pick for pick 12 - Richmond therefore rated Trengove as more valuable than Pick 12: Corey Ellis, Pick 13: Lachlan Weller and Pick 14: Jake Lever in that draft.

He'll be a good addition next year. I think he's being underrated on here. He's slot straight into the midfield or half back and finish top 10 in our bnf, maybe top 5 depending on the role he plays. He's got all the right skills, decent pace and toughness, and in a fresh environment with the weight lifted he will flourish.

Better this year than next year then.

I mentioned over the page that he had a kid this year, so presumably he's been getting thrown up on, slapped in the face, screamed at, eye gouged, pooed on, praying and being deprived of sleep, rest and any semblance of peace.

With Salem, Lamumba, Melksham, Dunn, Garland out for various reasons, it's easy to see why we're looking thin across half back line.

It's stating the obvious but it has to be stated - Trengove hasn't yet reached his physical ceiling, or anywhere near it. And it's simply premature to make judgments on his long-term outcome until he does. Remember, when his leg came out of plaster, that photo that showed how withered his calf muscles were? OK, maybe that was a year or so ago, but it would not have fully recovered to anywhere near "physical ceiling" level. I thought that both Trengove and Dawes had trouble changing direction on Sunday. In those conditions they certainly weren't the only ones, but on the slippery surface the condition of their leg muscles wouldn't be able to slow them down enough to change direction, so they weren't able to run anywhere near full pace. Same probably applies to VdB, though I didn't notice him as much. Were there any others who were "managing" ankle or calf or knee injuries? Didn't BenKen have ankle problems in the preseason? He was another one who seemed to have trouble changing direction. Again, perhaps it wasn't a good idea to take 3 or 4 players in this condition into a match on such an unstable surface. But Trengove has shown, even at this stage, that he's worth his place on the list for another year or two. It's reasonable to expect that he would continue to improve with another pre-season or two, barring further injury, until he reaches his physical ceiling. He'll only be 26, and it will probably be only then that we can be definitive about whether he's a keeper or not.

If Pendles is elite then so is Nathan Jones. If Mark Murphy is elite then so is Viney. The term elite is a media fad. More than ever it's about the 22 on ground. Sadly, Sam Mitchell is probably the only consistently brilliant little *&^% running around,week in,week out .

Yes, we've had lots of false starts since 2007, in both the football department and the administration. Yes it's disappointing. But that doesn't mean this is another one. If the pessimists can't seen the difference between the 2012 team (that had players like Sylvia, Blease, Gysberts, Howe, Bate, Bennell, Strauss, Morton, McKenzie, Petterd, Cook, Moloney, Tapscott, Sellar, Davis, Taggert, Bail, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Evans and Magner) and the current lot, then they will remain pessimists forever. Do you seriously think the 2016 list is not a quantum improvement? The current team is the youngest in the AFL. They have a huge amount of talent, But they will not be world beaters instantly, or even within three years. To think otherwise is just total delusion.

So a gif is a picture of Robert Downey with his eyes opening wide?

I reckon we'll win 10. But if we beat the crows at the g next match, we're still a sneaky chance of making the finals.

Everyone realises the port, saints and swans games were off 6 day breaks yeah? Young team without the conditioning of the more seasoned clubs. In all three games early before fading... I think pinning these losses on game style decision making is a bit of a stretch.

They lack currency and overall relevance to me. I would also seriously question their criteria when looking at some of their rankings over recent years.

A thinner spread of votes this week. Maxy deservedly takes the lead, Hunt makes a jump to the edge of the top ten, while Watts moves into the top five. The captain has polled in all but one game so far this year. Demonland Player of the Year: Unofficial Tally Votes (games polling votes/games played) 1. Gawn - 365 (10/13) 2. Viney - 335 (8/12) 3. N Jones - 273 (12/13) 4. Vince - 264 (11/12) 5. Watts - 204 (10/13) 6. Tyson - 197 (7/12) 7. Jetta - 192 (9/12) 8. Hogan - 168 (8/13) 9. Kennedy - 114 (6/12) 10. Stretch - 76 (3/8) 11. Hunt - 74 (5/10) 12. T McDonald - 73 (7/13) 13. Bugg - 69 (5/13) 14. Garlett - 65 (4/9) 15. Petracca - 56 (4/8) 16. Oliver - 48 (4/10) 17. Kent - 32 (3/12) 18. Wagner - 31 (5/11) 19. Harmes - 30 (3/11) 20. Lumumba - 24 (2/5) 21. M Jones - 13 (2/4) 22. Frost - 12 (3/8) 23. Pedersen - 8 (4/7) 24. Salem - 3 (1/7) 25. Trengove - 3 (1/2) 26. Garland - 1 (1/6) Best per round (vote order) Rd 1 (GWS): Viney, Watts, T McDonald, Kennedy, N Jones, Oliver, Gawn, Vince, Jetta, M Jones, Hogan Rd 2 (Ess): Kennedy, Garlett, N Jones, Vince, Tyson, M Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Pedersen Rd 3 (Nth): Viney, Gawn, Vince, Lumumba, Jetta, Oliver, Hogan, Kent, Salem Rd 4 (Coll): Watts, Viney, Gawn, Wagner, Tyson, N Jones, T McDonald, Lumumba, Kennedy, Pedersen, Frost, Bugg, Hogan, Jetta Rd 5 (Rich): Gawn, Viney, Tyson, Vince, Garlett, T McDonald, Watts, Kent, N Jones Rd 6 (StK): Hogan, Viney, N Jones, Watts, Jetta, Gawn, Vince, Tyson, Bugg, Kennedy, Pedersen Rd 7 (GC): Gawn, Viney, N Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Oliver, Bugg, Hunt, Vince, Wagner, Pedersen, Garlett Rd 8 (WB): Jetta, Tyson, Viney, Kennedy, Stretch, Vince, T McDonald, Watts, Hogan, Jones Rd 9 (Bris): Hogan, Stretch, Bugg, Petracca, N Jones, Watts, Garlett, Oliver, Harmes, Wagner, Vince, Garland Rd 10 (PA): Gawn, Jetta, N Jones, Hogan, Watts, Hunt, Stretch, T McDonald, Viney Rd 11 (Haw): Vince, Tyson, N Jones, Jetta, Watts, Gawn, Hunt, Frost, Wagner, Petracca, Trengove Rd 12 (Coll): Gawn, Vince, N Jones, Tyson, Kent, Bugg, Hogan, T McDonald, Petracca, Frost, Hunt, Kennedy, Watts Rd 13 (Syd): Hunt, Vince, Gawn, Watts, Petracca, N Jones, Wagner, T McDonald

Actually I think I broached it. He hasn't had a full preseason. When he has this...assess away. He's doing pretty good ok reckon.

Of course none of us, or anyone else for that matter can be sure of anything. Was it 2005 that Hawks fans were calling for Clarkson's head, and maybe early 2007 Geelong fans called for Thompson to be sacked. Things can change quickly with a talented list when things go right. GO DEES

I recall Roos saying recently that Jack has always been a well liked player around the club, as in he got on with everyone and was "one of the boys", however he has started to realise that earning their respect is a different thing and by playing good football is the way to do that. FWIW I think Jack has the potential to be in the leadership group next year (or the year after). He seems to be showing a lot more passion and becoming quite demonstrative out on the field which is something we haven't seen. These observations alone show the penny has finally dropped for Jack, but I just can't help but wonder why it's taken him so long to care about his football. The positive is though, it's probably an environmental thing which has fostered this change so the football club is cultivating a much better culture these days.

Gawn is elite. No doubt about it. If he was an unrestricted free agent this year he would have 18 offers for his services. You are elite when every club wants you.

I've always wanted to do this:

Good thread! Player development is another critical element which will determine how far we can progress with the current list, and I think most of us agree that the signs are very positive on this front. We have already seen the likes of Gawn, Viney, Watts and Jetta come on in leaps and bounds under the current program. If this scale and speed of development / improvement can be replicated by our talented youngsters (Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver, Petracca, Hogan and probably Hunt), then we will quickly have a bona fide 'finals ready' list, assuming we can retain all or most of them. Add a few untried but talented kids with (apparently) high ceilings, who are currently being 'developed' at Casey (Weideman, Hulett and maybe White) and we will have a list which could take us deep into September in the not too distant future. Of course there are lots of 'ifs' and 'buts' about this scenario, but imo, if we continue to teach and develop our current core list, while bolstering the known deficiencies discussed elsewhere on Demonland, we'll find ourselves in a very good place in 2 or 3 years. I'm loving the ride right now, and have high expectations!

Agree. I think some of us won't believe there is real improvement until we win a flag. I'm sure we have improved. But I don't think any of us can be sure that we will continue to improve to the point of getting into the top four or winning a flag. We can hope with varying degrees of confidence. I see no reason to despair at this stage.

Gawn has been around a long time. It seems some of the older brigade have struggled to learn and are no longer playing. There is also a big contingent that haven't had 3 years of learning and have only had one full preseason, or none in some cases. That contingent should be much smaller than it is in the players on the field but we don't have that option. Of the players who played on the weekend the players who have done one full preseason or less are (including missing due to injury) Hunt, Wagner, Oliver, Petracca, OMac, Stretch, and Vandenberg. Add to that Harmes who has played a fair bit this year and Brayshaw (both of whom are probably starting 22 when in form) and that is 9 players including a big chunk of our defence who haven't been in the system long at all, let alone the 3 years Roos has been there. I would also say TMac and Viney are significantly better now than they were 2.5 years ago. In terms of you learning in 3 days, I assume that you would be coming off a pretty good base of previous work to be able to do so, try doing that with a grad straight out of uni, that is effectively what a big chunk of our team are.

It has been that way since 2006

I offered an opinion boys. It may be right or wrong but I am not interested in some kind of justification of what I wrote. It becomes pedantic and a boring exercise. I don't mind debate but it gets to a point where it becomes very boring very quickly. Point scoring does not interest me. My theme was simply that Jack has shown great character to cop all the criticism and abuse and play good footy this year. I did not think this was possible but he proved me wrong.